Cause of Death - Charles and Braden Powell **Warning-Graphic Thread**

[jjenny]

The voicemal was reportedly left 20 minutes before the fire. Clearly he would have to leave it before the children showed up, since it wouldn't take 20 minutes for children to get out of their car seats.

 

[Paige SC]

My bolding

It was reported that she was on her way back to the car to call supervisors when the house exploded. I don't think it was that they boys left her in the dust, they ran ahead. All it would take was for her to be a step or two behind them for JP to pull them in and lock the door on her.

And it could have all happened very quickly, these were two very small boys, it wouldn't have taken much for him to overpower them. Attacking them and lighting a match in a house that had already been doused with all that gasoline didn't have to take very long.

JMHO

So shes planning a supervised visit inside the house of a murder suspect. Not so unusual. She's apparently been to that house before. She would have had to reach the front door, knock on it, then turn around to go BACK to her car when the 'eruption' takes place. Seems to me (from a LOGICAL standpoint,) she would have her phone, purse, file folder with her when she approached the house initially. Why leave your phone in the car?

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Thanks! I understand what the case worker is saying, I'm just having a difficult time with her account (never mind the fact it was on a Sunday - Superbowl Sunday) I read the other posts and I see where I'm not alone in my thoughts. If a house explodes or erupts into flames, the cause of death isn't smoke inhalation. The house wasn't rigged with explosives and smoke inhalation takes time. You can't have it both ways. The coroner was obviously able to make a determination regarding the cause of death which means their bodies had to VERY well intact in order to note the external (neck) injuries.. as well as the soft tissue of the lungs. Based on the images and media reports, one could only conclude there would be nothing left except charred remains. I do not believe we have all the details and while I will reserve judgement until we do, my "gut" tells me someone dropped the ball.

Anyone have an overhead view of the house/area? How far away was the case worker when she called for help? Was she on the porch, her car, where exactly, in relation to the house? The kids would have had to BOLT out her car and RUN into the house giving JP the opportunity to lock her out - then attack them - then light a match. While I'm sure the kids may have wanted to see their dad, I don't see them racing each other inside the house leaving the case worker in the dust.

I keep thinking of the tragedy involving Dr. William Petit's wife and children and the window of opportunity that was missed (due to the time it takes for a fire caused by gasoline & a match to gain some momentum). I understand the dwellings are vastly different but the cause of the fire(s) were not.

Many, many questions. Too many. I hope we get a full account that fits the details of what we know happened. It seems as though JP was able to ANTICIPATE the boys would leave the case worker behind. How did he know? What if she had gone in the house before the boys?

respectfully bolded and SBM....

Anyone have an overhead view of the house/area?

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/arti...eath-of-Powell-boys-3058398.php#photo-2278925

 

[jjenny]

My bolding

Not necessarily, it takes a minute to send off emails. They could have been written and saved and sent when he saw the car come up, or sent when he knew they were on their way. No one would have been close enough to stop anything, and it's doubtful that everyone was on their computer ready to receive the email at the exact moment he sent them.

JMHO

20 minutes before the fire the voice mail was reportedly left-that seems like quite a bit of time to be even potentially able to stop it or at least try.

 

[MarthaM]

Why isn't she sharing it with who, the media? It sounds like she did speak to officials.

We can only imagine how traumatized she must be, can't blame her for not speaking to the media.

JMHO

Agreed. I would not expect her to be talking to the media yet, and I applaud her for that. She has no responsibility for this whatsoever and needs some time to process what happened before even considering the media. Really, I don't think she has any obligation to ever do so, although I suppose they'll hound her until she gives in just to have it over with.

 

[Paige SC]

1) This was not a CPS government Social Worker, CPS contracted another agency to do the supervised visits and that person is the one who transported the children. Those visit supervisors must offer flexible visit days and times to work with parents work schedules. It is very common that parents have visits on Sundays (especially if they work fulltime). This contracted visit supervisor did exactly as she was supposed to do. CPS was complying with a court order. . . . they have no authority to override a Judges order for visitation in the home.

2) Judge ordered visits in the home after Josh complained about having visits at the visitation center (contracted agency center) with other families around due to his high notariety in this case. He effectively argued to the court that he deserved more privacy during his visits and was granted that per court order.

3) See other posters comments . . . carbon monoxide/smoke inhallation is what ultimately killed them . . . the hatchet cuts and burns were also noted but not the cause of death.

4) House burned violently . . . windows blew out . . .



Kids had a scheduled time to arrive and visit supervisors are trained to be on time and let the parents know if they are running late. He knew exactly (within a few minutes) of their arrival time. Also it takes a few minutes to get the kids out of seatbelts and take them both up to the door. Josh could have sent them as soon as he saw visit supervisor show up.



Regarding the children going into the house before the case worker . . . that is exactly how they are trained to follow the children into the home (lest you would be leaving children unattended outside of the home where something terrible could possibly happen).

I have included the link to verify this was not a CPS government worker but a contracted visit supervisor who typically works weekends/evenings, etc. around parent work schedules and foster/kin schedules as well as the kids schedules (ie: school/daycare/sports).

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2017435088_dshs06m.htm

The more I hear the more questions I have. Mark my words, we don't have the entire story here.

 

[wenwe4]

respectfully bolded and SBM....

Anyone have an overhead view of the house/area?

http://www.seattlepi.com/local/arti...eath-of-Powell-boys-3058398.php#photo-2278925

I saw one on the house explosion #2 thread (post 217) where a graphic from NG show last night of a reported house plan.

IIRC the garage was located just right of the front door/living room and that is where Josh reportedly was found with the bodies of his 2 little boys and the hatchet found nearby.

ETA . . . this visit supervisor has signed confidentiality agreements that are legally binding! She cannot speak to the media as it violates confidentiality, her agency would fire her and she could be sued. She has been cooperating with LE and CPS and I want to reitterate that this visit supervisor is NOT in anyway responsible for these children's deaths!!!!!!! The sole person responsible for this horrific tragedy is JOSH!!!!

 

[annalia]

The more I hear the more questions I have. Mark my words, we don't have the entire story here.

I don't understand. What is it that you believe to be missing from the story?

 

[annalia]

20 minutes before the fire the voice mail was reportedly left-that seems like quite a bit of time to be even potentially able to stop it or at least try.

That meant that everyone had to be on their computer reading their emails or listening to voicemail at the exact moment he sent them? :waitasec:

I'm confused at the points that are trying to be made but I admit I may have missed something posted earlier. :waitasec:

 

[jjenny]

There were many clues this guy was suicidal. If a depressed person suddenly becomes calm and starts giving away possessions-classic clues that the person is suicidal. Apparently no one figured it out. But when his relative got his voicemail I am pretty sure it was obvious. So he was taking a big risk if he actually did leave it that much before the fire and apparently before children showed up. The relatives clearly would have tried to stop it and could have ruined his plans.

 

[RiverRat]

I think he inflicted the injuries to punish them for talking.

That's kind of close to the feeling I have that I posted about on the Part 2 thread, I seriously do not believe that is why he killed them but that he definitely told the Boys that is why he was hurting them. Twisted Monster.

He killed them for his own disturbing reasons, IMO.

 

[SurfieTX]

The more I hear the more questions I have. Mark my words, we don't have the entire story here.

I agree with you 100%. IMO, the boys were left with Josh unsupervised for longer than a few minutes.

 

[Paige SC]

I don't understand. What is it that you believe to be missing from the story?

House fires caused by gasoline & a match do not cause "instantaneous" explosions to windows. They usually take SOME time to spread. They don't 'explode' or erupt in the BLINK of an eye. They just don't. The location of the bodies, the condition of the bodies doesn't seem to be consistent with an immediate ball of fire and flames. I am not holding anyone responsible other than Josh Powell for what happened. It's not a conspiracy. But common sense tells me that either ALL the details of what happened haven't been released, or what's being released isn't the whole truth. Because what's being reported simply doesn't make sense. 2-3 minutes isn't enough time to execute this crime AND start an instant blaze to a home. And then to be able to recover the bodies in such amazingly good shape is even more perplexing. I don't know. It just isn't adding up for me YET. Anything's possible... but for me it needs to be probable.

 

[Emeralgem]

This entire thing has me shocked into silence.

Same here.. NO WORDS....

 

[21merc7]

I don't think all of the details are known yet. It takes time to figure out.

 

[cinsbythesea]

There were many clues this guy was suicidal. If a depressed person suddenly becomes calm and starts giving away possessions-classic clues that the person is suicidal. Apparently no one figured it out. But when his relative got his voicemail I am pretty sure it was obvious. So he was taking a big risk if he actually did leave it that much before the fire and apparently before children showed up. The relatives clearly would have tried to stop it and could have ruined his plans.

It was Super Bowl Sunday - I have to wonder if this was not another part of his "plan" - that people wouldn't be paying as much attention to emails and/or text messages as they were either preparing for the game (shopping, food preparing etc) or watching the pre-game, game etc and so were not as attentive as they might normally have been to messages coming in.

 

[wenwe4]

Cause of death of the children seems to be reminiscent of clues left @ the "camp site" where charred logs were found. Just wondering out loud . . . a hatchet would be something people take with them camping . . . . could this be a "pattern of death from a serial killer"?

 

[chasing.halos]

I am so sick/angry/sad and I hate even typing this but I believe the use of the hatchet did two things: Incapacitated them so they couldn't run and if someone DID get to them before the fire got to them they would not have much chance of survival (in his mind).

I just can't take this guys. Those beautiful babies.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I saw one on the house explosion #2 thread (post 217) where a graphic from NG show last night of a reported house plan.

IIRC the garage was located just right of the front door/living room and that is where Josh reportedly was found with the bodies of his 2 little boys and the hatchet found nearby.

ETA . . . this visit supervisor has signed confidentiality agreements that are legally binding! She cannot speak to the media as it violates confidentiality, her agency would fire her and she could be sued. She has been cooperating with LE and CPS and I want to reitterate that this visit supervisor is NOT in anyway responsible for these children's deaths!!!!!!! The sole person responsible for this horrific tragedy is JOSH!!!!

Totally agree, wenwe4! Josh is the only one responsible. IMO he is a serial murderer.

There was most likely a clause in this SW's contract preventing carrying mobile phones on the job site for privacy reasons. So she had to run back to her car to retrieve her phone to dial authorities. And thank the good lord she survived! She bears no blame in this sad mess. MOO.

wm



Bless her heart

 

[wenwe4]

(((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))) chasing.halos