FL - 17-yo Teen Shot to Death by Neighborhood Watch Captain #4

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And neither is fair or just. But the law is "innocent until proven guilty." Not guilty until proven innocent. If LE felt they did not have enough evidence to support a conviction then they were right to let GZ go. IMO, the issue is that a thorough investigation does not seem to have taken place.

"Thorough investigation"? NO investigation! :maddening:

Zimmerman admitted he had shot Trayvon Martin. There is no doubt that he is the killer of Trayvon Martin.

The major problem is that the Sanford PD did no investigation at all to determine whether GZ's statement of self defense was credible. They simply accepted his statement at face value.

Certainly the SPD did not have enough evidence to support a conviction - they didn't make any effort to collect any evidence. How convenient, both for GZ and for the SPD. GZ gets to walk away from killing and the SPD avoids going to the effort of actually investigating the death of a young black man. :banghead:
 
Al Sharpton is not a victim
He is however a public speaker.

If your so concerned, you can always write him a letter? Get in contact with your congressmen/women, law-makers, you could even call the news and voice your concerns. If you want to speak out about it, no one is stopping you?
 
Wasn't TM's father talking about the 100 yards distance between where TM was shot to their home? Somewhere on the threads is a map with where GZ first spotted TM where TM was shot and where the home is located. It appears TM was 1/2 way home.

I do believe that TM may have felt afraid this man would follow him home and endanger both he and his brother. It is possible. jmo
YES - something like a ball park distace away.
 
True a verbal threat in itself doesn't constitute the use of deadly force... However if it's used in combination with an aggressive move it might very well be cause enough... A lot depends upon the totality of all the circumstances. One doesn't have to wait until a weapon is produced to exercise deadly force... If a person shouting at you saying their going to kill you and they act as if they've got a weapon in their pocket and go to reach for it. You have ever reason to believe they're going to make good on that threat.

Based on what I understand the law to be from what was posted on this thread, it darn well better be aggressive enough to make one think they are in danger of very serious bodily harm. I have a hard time believing that is what happened that night.

IMO
 
I don't believe the judge ruled yet if Mr. Dooley will even go on trial.

"But if Dooley's lawyers can convince a judge by next week that he fired the gun because his life was being threatened — that he is therefore protected under Florida's "stand your ground" law — Dooley may well walk away a free man."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2109511,00.html#ixzz1q4DUaDZb

http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2109511,00.html

Thanks - I had read it the other night, but today was hectic and I had forgotten that the court time coming up was for the judge to make his decision.
 
You know, that's not much of a report. It even says "Partial Report." I wonder why they are not releasing the full report. If everything was all copacetic and stuff.

Oh I agree. I want the report from the Narcotics Officer investigating a homicide. LOL That will be an eyeopener.
 
I've seen a lot of posts regarding people wondering why the family had denied the police department access to Travon's phone. That is not the case as far as what I heard on one of the talking head shows earlier in the week.

I have seen the family's attorneys on several shows this week and can't remember now exactly which show it was on but the lady attorney spoke directly to this question on one of them. I have hesitated to post this because I can't obviously provide a link since it was a talk show and since I can't remember specifically which show it was - I am going to go ahead and post my recollection of it and perhaps someone else saw the same show that I did.

The lady attorney for the family ( her name escapes me at the moment) was on Vinnie Politan the other day and she as asked this question. She said that is simply not true. The family was never asked right after this happened if they could have access to the phone records. She said the family had only recently heard that the police even had the phone at all. That they'd been asking where the phone is at and just recently heard that the police were saying they had the phone but were having to get a search warrant to get access because the family would not grant them access.

The lady attorney said at this point the family was so put out with the SPD that they were making them get a warrant now but if they had asked day one, then the family would have immediately agreed to give them access. After all that has happened now and with the accusation from the SPD that the family had denied access when they never had even been asked (and in fact was even telling the family they did not have the phone at all) that they are not in a very agreeable mood at the moment.

Honestly, I can't say I blame them.

IMO
 
They are not going to show if for some reason the phone is powered off. Trayvon's dad said he did call Trayvon's phone and that it went straight to voice mail. In that case, it is not going to show on the incoming call history.

IMO
Would not a missed call be recorded ?
 
The fact is that many black men have been taught to NOT run - not because they want to be confrontational but because running is often considered to be indication of guilt.



Black men, especially black men in the South, have to deal with automatically being considered suspicious even if all they are doing is walking down the street. In a town like Sanford with a long history of racism they have to be especially careful.

Trayvon's parents probably had the same talk with him that Jonathan Capehart had with his mother, warning him of the same things. “Don’t run in public.” He'd already broken that rule when he ran from GZ initially. That could be one reason he was so worried even after he thought he'd lost the strange man in the SUV.

TM probably realized that running again would be MORE dangerous for him than walking fast, even if walking increased the chance the person stalking him might catch up to him.

This is why the Trayvon Martin case is making such a national impact. Every single black man in this country has lived with the likelihood that they will be found "suspicious while being black" no matter where they live, how they dress, what they have done - or not done - or any factor under their control. No matter how much the white population may deny this, it exists and it happens, probably every day.

This case is a mess indeed - if the Sanford Police Department had investigated the shooting thoroughly from the beginning we would not have all the questions we do. Maybe GZ was justified but we will never know. The SPD did not make sure that all the facts were documented - they used the excuse of the 'stand your ground' law to evade their responsibility.

Given the respective histories of the two individuals, I prefer to give the younger man without a police record the benefit of the doubt over the older man with a history of violence and a lack of impulse control.[/QUOTE
:goodpost::
 
No. It's the other way around. They are making prosecution prove it. Prosecution has to have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt for judge to even allow Mr. Dooley to go on trial.

I doubt if this case will help Mr. Dooley's defense. The judge still has not made a decision. jmo
 
Absolutely not, I don't even believe that neighborhood watchmen should carry a gun.
But it does mean that instead of running home like his GF told him to do he just escalated the situation.

This case is a mess.

BBM

I have read or heard absolutely nothing that gives me the impression, even remotely, that Trayvon did one single thing to escalate this situation. The responsibility for what happened lies squarely on GZ's shoulders.

Not turning and politely inquiring when a stranger is making you nervous and scared (I get that from what his gf has stated about how their conversation went when Trayvon mentioned GZ following him) should not escalate a situation to the point of physical altercation and deadly force. That is absurd.

IMO
 
The fact is that many black men have been taught to NOT run - not because they want to be confrontational but because running is often considered to be indication of guilt.



Black men, especially black men in the South, have to deal with automatically being considered suspicious even if all they are doing is walking down the street. In a town like Sanford with a long history of racism they have to be especially careful.

Trayvon's parents probably had the same talk with him that Jonathan Capehart had with his mother, warning him of the same things. “Don’t run in public.” He'd already broken that rule when he ran from GZ initially. That could be one reason he was so worried even after he thought he'd lost the strange man in the SUV.

TM probably realized that running again would be MORE dangerous for him than walking fast, even if walking increased the chance the person stalking him might catch up to him.

This is why the Trayvon Martin case is making such a national impact. Every single black man in this country has lived with the likelihood that they will be found "suspicious while being black" no matter where they live, how they dress, what they have done - or not done - or any factor under their control. No matter how much the white population may deny this, it exists and it happens, probably every day.

This case is a mess indeed - if the Sanford Police Department had investigated the shooting thoroughly from the beginning we would not have all the questions we do. Maybe GZ was justified but we will never know. The SPD did not make sure that all the facts were documented - they used the excuse of the 'stand your ground' law to evade their responsibility.

Given the respective histories of the two individuals, I prefer to give the younger man without a police record the benefit of the doubt over the older man with a history of violence and a lack of impulse control.[/QUOTE
:goodpost::

a lack of impulse control. BINGO.....this is why TM is dead. jmo
 
No, the other way around.

"Conservatives often argue that personal responsibility is the doctrine by which America will heal itself, and yet “Stand Your Ground” offers exactly the opposite. Rather than holding people accountable for taking human life and keeping the burden of proof on those citizens who choose to kill, the new standard requires society to prove that the taking of human life wasn’t necessary."

Read more here: http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/24/2711539/welcome-to-florida-beware-of-gunmen.html#storylink=cpy
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/24/2711539/welcome-to-florida-beware-of-gunmen.html
RE:bolded - Well, I don't think that will be a problem in this case then. Once all of the lies are exposed.
 
JMO
GZ wanted to be a hero = police wanabe
TM was not going to be a sisi, so he showd him....
Al Sharpton needed a photo op.
Florida LE needs a compleat make over
 
Nope. IMO, The fact he fell asleep would bolster the claim he just didn't care enough to look.

But, you asked for a quote and a link that showed Tracy Martin did not look for Trayvon Martin. I provided both. You didn't ask for excuses why he didn't.


I want to be clear here. I was answering your request for the quote and link. Whether or not Tracy Martin did or did not look for is son is totally irrelevant to this case. I am not blaming Tracy Martin in any way, shape or form for the death of his son.

BBM

I think that is all in the opinion of the how one interprets "looks" for Trayvon. I do not agree with how some are interpreting that the dad did not look.

He made two phone calls looking for Trayvon and got voice mails both times. He fell asleep.

It's my experience as a mother of 3 grown children (2 girls and 1 boy) and also how it was in my home growing up (two brothers,one sister) , that the dads were a lot less nervous or worried when the teenage sons didn't show up or weren't easily accessible via phone. My dad and my kids dad would have gone to sleep thinking exactly what Trayvon's dad said in the article. He'd recently been with his nephew, at the movies so he just figured that is where he was at. It wasn't til the next morning when he got up and Trayvon still wasn't home that the worry started.

Me, on the other hand, would have waited up on him. My kids dad would have shook his head and gone off to bed. Now, if it had been the girls, my kids dad would have been in the car looking for them. The son, though, is different.

IMO
 
You know, that's not much of a report. It even says "Partial Report." I wonder why they are not releasing the full report. If everything was all copacetic and stuff.

Oh I agree. I want the report from the Narcotics Officer investigating a homicide. LOL That will be an eyeopener.

I want to see the witnesses written statements. Did they take any witness statements that night or are there only LE reports of the incident?
 
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