trial thread: 04/03/2012

[flipflop]

good question...has anyone heard of it used in vehicles? It used to be considered a cheap paint with disinfectant properties to farmers etc...is it a known mix used in vehicles?:moo: apparently some of the doors also and other parts of the vehicle.

Don't know why anyone would...from the pic of his car in the opp garage, the interior with the whitewash looked like crap, and this was from a distance. I cannot imagine how it looked up close.

 

[snoofer]

Mennonites tend to keep to themselves and their own circles.

when you live near mennonite land you know how they live in a small community :maddening::moo:

 

[swedie]

I didn't know that little Tori had begged TLM not to leave her alone at the Home Depot store:what:...can you guide me to that link.. thanks....

They drove to a Tim Hortons where McClintic stayed with Tori while Rafferty went inside. They stopped to buy Percocet at a dealer’s house. When they made another pit stop so Rafferty could withdraw money from an ATM, Tori told McClintic not to leave her with the man. In Guelph, they pulled into a Home Depot where, as instructed, McClintic purchased garbage bags and a claw hammer.

Tori demanded to know “when could I go home?”

http://www.thestar.com/news/article...-girlfriend-admits-bludgeoning-child-to-death

When they parked at Home Depot, McClintic said Tori begged her not to leave her alone with Rafferty. She assured her she’d be quick. She didn’t tell her that she was going inside to buy the tools they would need to kill her.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/ToriStafford/2012/03/13/19498481.html

HTH:thumb:eace:

 

[snoofer]

Don't know why anyone would...from the pic of his car in the opp garage, the interior with the whitewash looked like crap, and this was from a distance. I cannot imagine how it looked up close.

strange......:moo:

 

[swedie]

http://www.citytv.com/toronto/citynews/topic/Michael_Rafferty_murder_trial/Article/print/193054

Speed reader lol. You're way ahead of me. Thank you for posting that link. I no sooner posted a couple links, scrolled down to see you got the info for me. Much thanks Matou. :blowkiss:

 

[paris_paris]

12 random people on this forum.

#1 thinks MTR had no idea what was happening and only helped cover up the crime.
#2 thinks MTR kicked and stomped on Tori, even though TLM said she did it.
#3 thinks he did more to Tori than what's been testified.
#4 thinks TLM was the one that knew the area and selected the location.
#5 thinks Tori had her bottom clothes off maybe because she pee'd herself.
#6 thinks if there is any semen found, Tori's DNA isn't likely mixed with it.
#7 thinks MTR killed Tori with a hammer.
#8 thinks TLM killed Tori with a hammer.
#9 thinks TLM chose Tori because of revenge against her mother.
#10 thinks MTR crushed Tori's ribs during the rape.
#11 thinks only TLM sexually assaulted Tori.
#12 thinks we all need a happy meal.

Good thing we aren't the jury. The Crown has their work cut out for them.

 

[jolady]

..this is a forum so everyone is free to state there opinions ...I must say mine to tho.....I agree with so many of the other posters that M. R. is darn GULITY>....I know people who worked with Paul Bernardo and I was told personally that all his fellow colleges thought he was completely "NORMAL" ... YA THE SCARB RAPIST ....so who knows YET what lurks in the history of MR....I also live where he did ...and worked and know people where he went to school as a kid....He shows lots of attributes of an abusive man...as far as evidence goes ...The Crown has just begun....I want to hear the next chapters....Folks who think he did not rape Tori....remember that body was 3 mths outside and it was not like this year it was cold with snow on the ground in April! ....obviously there would not be physical evidence when they found her.....BUT there are others chapters that hint that there WAS and IS more to this story .....let us hear all the chapters like the JURY .....these 2 people need to be incarcertated for a long long time ...for what they did ....now I am ready to sign ...The TORI LAW as soon as I find it online again! ...this is a total indignity to a precious child no matter what happend ...wrapped in GARBAGE BAGS and left to rot savagely ....Does that not speak volumes ...omg I can hardly type this clearly ...!!!!...Look at where she was found ...just tumbled across a lane way in no mans land....common sense says ...hmmm ...someone who knew how to drive took her there ....wonder who knew about that area ???...IMO ..this is starting to add up very very fast....JUSTICE For Tori ...long enough ...3 years ...Straford family has suffered enough ....ONT SEEk Justice so are kids are safe ...PLEASE!...robynhood!

Not every "normal" guy is a rapist though. It goes both ways.
People who knew him as a kid and thought he "shows attributes of an abusive man" ...don't know what that means. He was a kid. What attributes?
I too want to hear the next chapters.
I don't recall anyone saying he didn't rape Tori, just that we haven't got the evidence to support it yet. I have an open mind. I truly hope that the evidence shows that she wasn't raped, not to prove innocence for him, but for the family. The killing is bad enough without adding rape to it.
Happy to sign Tori's Law too.
AGREE, AGREE, AGREE
I think they both knew the area. TLM also had connection to the area IIRC.
We all want justice!!!

 

[giantalkinghead]

Don't know why anyone would...from the pic of his car in the opp garage, the interior with the whitewash looked like crap, and this was from a distance. I cannot imagine how it looked up close.

To be clear.... I assume that he whitewashed the inside of his car - including the backseat area...after... the brutal murder - in order to cover up any DNA evidence that Tory was inside his car. Agreed to would look like crap. I don't think it was done for "looks"

IMO

 

[flipflop]

when you live near mennonite land you know how they live in a small community :maddening::moo:

I live in mennonite land, MF is a small community. Some have tv and radio and some do not. Some drive cars, some drive buggys. They stick to their circle in the mennonite community. They do not know how I live and I do not know how they live.

 

[maxfactor]

Don't know why anyone would...from the pic of his car in the opp garage, the interior with the whitewash looked like crap, and this was from a distance. I cannot imagine how it looked up close.

Well at least it was consistent with the outside of the car, it looked like crap too.:what:

 

[antiquegirl]

Well I find that choking while engaging in sexual activity is violent and I don't think it's normal.

And in the context of this case, I think it shows that MR may have a violent streak.


Wikipedia

Erotic interest in asphyxiation is classified as a paraphilia in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association.

First of all, this is strictly hearsay, contradicted later by the woman who said it, not admitted into evidence, and therefore, according to Salem's post #729 on 04/01/12, not "on the table". If this woman testifies in court, swearing that it happened, we would have one person's testimony that MTR engaged in what some people consider "abnormal" sex.

Secondly, if everyone in the world who engaged in moderate, consensual, sado-masochistic sex were lined up in a straight line, it would be a very long one indeed. And I'd bet very few of them would also be guilty of being pedophilic rapists.

Personally, I need more to convince me that MTR sexually assaulted Tori. I do not doubt that he was there. I do not doubt that he helped cover up the crime. I do not doubt that he lied to LE about his involvement. I do not doubt that he's a coward. (I'd say more, but there's a rule about name-calling.) But I do have doubts about this alleged sexual assault. I'm waiting to see what other evidence is forthcoming.

JMO

 

[flipflop]

Well at least it was consistent with the outside of the car, it looked like crap too.:what:

The driver apparently looked like crap too in the spring of 2009, according to BA

 

[maxfactor]

To be clear.... I assume that he whitewashed the inside of his car - including the backseat area...after... the brutal murder - in order to cover up any DNA evidence that Tory was inside his car. Agreed to would look like crap. I don't think it was done for "looks"

IMO

I don't have a link for it but I thought I remembered LE saying in the beginning that he had whitewashed other parts of the car, you may be right.

 

[swedie]

common sense dictates she was sexually assaulted. She had no undies or pants on. Just because she was hidden so well and evidence was not able to be recovered does not mean that Tori's voice and story should not be told or heard. This is her story and it doesn't take a genious to conclude that inspite of destroyed evidence...her story supports a sexual assault.:twocents:

:blowkiss: And to add to your fabulous information. TLM was not expecting to get caught in this horrific crime. She manage to deflect all involvement away from her for approximately two and a half months.There was no plan on her behalf of making it look like a sexual assault. MHO MR was the mastermind, she was lost, sick soul following her masters commands. Remember his line, "You would do anything for a little bit of love". MR knew she would because she was desperate for love.:moo:

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Snipped for space and BBM

Personally, I need more to convince me that MTR sexually assaulted Tori. I do not doubt that he was there. I do not doubt that he helped cover up the crime. I do not doubt that he lied to LE about his involvement. I do not doubt that he's a coward. (I'd say more, but there's a rule about name-calling.) But I do have doubts about this alleged sexual assault. I'm waiting to see what other evidence is forthcoming.

JMO

Agreed.

 

[maxfactor]

:blowkiss: And to add to your fabulous information. TLM was not expecting to get caught in this horrific crime. She manage to deflect all involvement away from her for approximately two and a half months.There was no plan on her behalf of making it look like a sexual assault. MHO MR was the mastermind, she was lost, sick soul following her masters commands. Remember his line, "You would do anything for a little bit of love". MR knew she would because she was desperate for love.:moo:

You're so right there Swedie!! I keep thinking back to the video of them at the movies, it was pretty obvious she was smitten with him, IMO there is no way at the time of the murder she was thinking of setting him up. She was thinking she'd finally found a good man.:waitasec:

 

[dilbert]

Wise words.

Heeney asked the jury not to get emotional on Tuesday. “Because emotions distort judgment, emotion distorts reason,” he said grimly.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...turbing-photos-to-be-entered-as-evidence?bn=1

 

[matou]

I wonder if MR had any injuries to his body that were noticed by anyone in the days after Tori's murder? (besides the cold sores) JMO

 

[snoofer]

I live in mennonite land, MF is a small community. Some have tv and radio and some do not. Some drive cars, some drive buggys. They stick to their circle in the mennonite community. They do not know how I live and I do not know how they live.

Well I can tell you this..I don't trick of treat the jehovah witness family on our street because it is known..that is not kosher to do so. Nor do I offer a smoke or a beer to my Mormon neighbours. I turn my outside lights off by 8 oclock because my closest neighbours have kids that have to sleep for school the next day. Not always, but in many small communities there are things over the years you come to know about your neighbours...not because you are nosey but because you are observant. If there is someone on our street that doesn't belong we ask them...what is your purpose here. We look out for each other and our homes. It is not a stretch to think that the community would know that that particular neighbour doesn't have tv etc. Or what time they get up in the morning or even if they wear their pajamas to the mailbox...geesh. If you don't know anything about your neighbours you should IMO as that is what community is...the coming together of people for the common good. You should know what is going on in your community and with your neighbours and copy down license plates of cars that frequent your area that dont belong there, challenge a person who is wandering in your neighbourhood and it doesnt seem right...ask them why they are there. IMO

 

[Kamille]

She could have peed in the backseat and down to the floor - who knows for certain ? Maybe he was trying to cover up her urine/DNA.... hey ... I'm not saying he's an angel... far from it - but, I'm not convinced -yet- of sexual assult and first degree murder...I need and pray for more evidence ...

BBM

I must say that this baffles me. How much more evidence can we possibly get here considering what we've heard so far?

We have direct evidence from a witness that the reason for the abduction was for sexual purposes. We have no evidence that it was for any other purpose. We have direct evidence from a witness at the scene that a sexual assault occured...twice... on the backseat of the car. We have circumstantial evidence that the back seat of the car is missing and the defendent refused to co-operate with LE in either producing that back seat or leading them to the crime scene even though his lawyer has suggested that he did in fact drive there that day and was present at least for the disposal of the body. And because of that refusal to lead them to the crime scene, the body of the victim was too far decomposed by the time they did find her, based on information again provided by TLM only, to either rule in or rule out a sexual assault. And of course more circumstantial evidence that the victim was found without any clothing from the waist down.

We're not going to get a video of the crime. We're not going to get DNA evidence due to the length of time the body was exposed to the elements. Apparently we're not going to ever see that back seat show up as evidence.

The only thing we may get is direct testimony from MR himself to attempt to explain everything away, subject to an extensive cross examination. Then it will be his word against hers. Two proven liars. So the circumstantial evidence and common sense might be the deciding factor. This isn't a TV show, it's real life. And people tend to try to cover up their crimes as best as they can. So a jury can only make a determination based on the evidence that can be found and presented. And so far, IMO, there is more evidence presented that a sexual assault did occur than not.

MOO