trial thread: 04/03/2012

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If that is in fact true, between 2 consenting adults, I don't find that shocking or violent. JMO

Well I find that choking while engaging in sexual activity is violent and I don't think it's normal.

And in the context of this case, I think it shows that MR may have a violent streak.


Wikipedia

Erotic interest in asphyxiation is classified as a paraphilia in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of the American Psychiatric Association.
 
Would the defense then suggest he just did himself with palmela (his hand)? :twocents::truce:
<rsbm>

I think TM set the stage for that when she related the story of him driving with one hand while masturbating with the other.
 
TLM has had years of experience thinking on her feet. She's been fighting for her life (violently) for years, has been in and out of "the system", had street smarts to spare. She didn't have to plan in advance to stage this.

So, theoretically - she bludgeons Tori and decides when all is said and done that she's going to make it look like "You're in this now as far as I am" (or whatever the exact quote was). She removes Tori's lower clothing, stuffs them in a garbage bag with the hammer. Thinking on her feet. Theoretically.

Maybe she grabs a couple of bottle caps and tosses them in Tori's garbage bag. She had green tea. Maybe she never drank any water. But why bother even disposing of them? Take them with you. Your own fingerprints on bottle caps is not a crime. Those caps make my hinky meter go off big time.

If you had committed this horrendous crime, what would you do first, dispose of the body, or leave it lying there while you clean up the other evidence? I know that hiding that body would be my first priority. She was put in garbage bags, carried to her final resting place, and covered in rocks. THEN, one would go about gathering weapon, bloody clothes, cigarette butts, and bottle caps. Too late to put in Tori's garbage bags.

OR ...

Perhaps it was TLM who sexually assaulted Tori. There would still be no DNA evidence and it would explain the lack of clothing. Perhaps.

Why would she NOT want to blame him? You think a sociopath would prefer to take all the blame herself? She's not stupid enough to think that there was zero chance they'd get caught. Remember, for the first while she told LE she knew nothing about this crime. She then told them that she was an innocent dupe, doing MTR's bidding, and he is the one who raped and killed Tori. She stuck to this story for two years before changing it again. It sure doesn't sound to me like someone who'd hesitate to place blame wherever she can ... as the mood suits her.

But, that's JMO.

But again, the jury would have to assume that TLM was solely responsible for the kidnapping for some reason and they have not been given any evidence to that effect. They'd have to believe that Victoria went along with the abduction as if she was being babysat by a trusted friend. That at no point during her ride to Guelph was she ever scared or worried that she was being driven away from Woodstock by two virtual strangers. They'd have to believe that at no point, until after they had left Guelph, was Victoria ever being hidden on the floor of the backseat. Even though there are no witnesses, either BA or anyone who either drove or walked past the car on the highway, in the TH or in the HD parking lot, who ever saw Victoria in the car.

And you'd also have to believe that MR took one very long walk, very far from the scene of the crime as to not have heard or seen anything amiss. He didn't hear Victoria utter a yell or scream, he didn't hear TLM removing her clothing and possibly sexually assaulting her, kicking her, opening his trunk, removing items from a shopping bag and wielding a hammer to her.

Then you'd have to believe that he returned from his long walk to this scene and because a teenage, gangsta drug addict told him, a 28yr old adult man, that he was just as involved, he agreed to help clean up the crime scene, dispose of a child and drive back to Woodstock, never to speak of what he had seen. Even though by the next day, the entire town, the local LE and the OPP were in a panic trying to locate her.

And he kept quiet about what he knew, perpetuating the rumour that her mother had a large drug debt and that she was likely missing because of that. He converted his car to a two seater, just because, and met a new woman within 5 days of the crime and just went on with his life as if nothing happened.

And of course when he was arrested, he did absolutely nothing to tell his side of the story and clear his name of the sexual assault when he had the chance to do so by leading LE to the crime scene and Victoria's remains.

All of the above scenario defies all logic IMO.

MOO
 
yes but in small communities people know their neighbours and much about them.
I am wondering what you are implying? Do you think they knew the perpetrators somehow?
I live in close proximity to mennonites and haven't got a clue about any of them. See them on the street and they nod, that is the extent of it. They very much stay within their community. They really don't have tv, internet or radio, and as they are living 2 hrs from the location of the abduction I think it is totally feasible that they didn't know anything about it. JMO
 
apparently parts of the inside of MTR car were "whitewashed".:moo:2:37

RaffertyLFP:
Much of car had been painted over with matte black paint, some of the interior had been whitewashed, police tried to find missing back seat

this was visible on the Esso surv video just minutes around the time of the abduction
 
..this is a forum so everyone is free to state there opinions ...I must say mine to tho.....I agree with so many of the other posters that M. R. is darn GULITY>....I know people who worked with Paul Bernardo and I was told personally that all his fellow colleges thought he was completely "NORMAL" ... YA THE SCARB RAPIST ....so who knows YET what lurks in the history of MR....I also live where he did ...and worked and know people where he went to school as a kid....He shows lots of attributes of an abusive man...as far as evidence goes ...The Crown has just begun....I want to hear the next chapters....Folks who think he did not rape Tori....remember that body was 3 mths outside and it was not like this year it was cold with snow on the ground in April! ....obviously there would not be physical evidence when they found her.....BUT there are others chapters that hint that there WAS and IS more to this story .....let us hear all the chapters like the JURY .....these 2 people need to be incarcertated for a long long time ...for what they did ....now I am ready to sign ...The TORI LAW as soon as I find it online again! ...this is a total indignity to a precious child no matter what happend ...wrapped in GARBAGE BAGS and left to rot savagely ....Does that not speak volumes ...omg I can hardly type this clearly ...!!!!...Look at where she was found ...just tumbled across a lane way in no mans land....common sense says ...hmmm ...someone who knew how to drive took her there ....wonder who knew about that area ???...IMO ..this is starting to add up very very fast....JUSTICE For Tori ...long enough ...3 years ...Straford family has suffered enough ....ONT SEEk Justice so are kids are safe ...PLEASE!...robynhood!
 
apparently parts of the inside of MTR car were "whitewashed".:moo:

She could have peed in the backseat and down to the floor - who knows for certain ? Maybe he was trying to cover up her urine/DNA.... hey ... I'm not saying he's an angel... far from it - but, I'm not convinced -yet- of sexual assult and first degree murder...I need and pray for more evidence ...
 
Semen on a garbage bag would not prove a rape either. MOO

I don't claim to know what the poster meant, but actually, I think if semen were found in the same garbage bag that covered Tori's bottom half, it could easily be concluded that it came from within her. (I'm so, so sorry to have to type that!) If I were on the jury, that would be more evidence of a sexual assault by the accused than anything else I've heard so far. If this does come up in the future, I would definitely concede the point.

However, the same bodily fluid found anywhere in his car would prove nothing, unless Tori's DNA was mixed with it and it could be proven that they were deposited there at the same time. It's not a crime for MTR to have had sex in his own car. We have it in evidence now that he had it with TLM and IMO, she was not his only partner in that car during the six years he owned it.

JMO
 
She could have peed in the backseat and down to the floor - who knows for certain ? Maybe he was trying to cover up her urine/DNA.... hey ... I'm not saying he's an angel... far from it - but, I'm not convinced -yet- of sexual assult and first degree murder...I need and pray for more evidence ...

Cover it up with what? The whitewash dash board would have been done prior to picking up VS as his car is seen in the gas station video around the time of abduction where the white dashboard is visible.

If she urinated on the seat, he wasnt covering it up with paint....he got rid of the seat.
 
I am wondering what you are implying? Do you think they knew the perpetrators somehow?
I live in close proximity to mennonites and haven't got a clue about any of them. See them on the street and they nod, that is the extent of it. They very much stay within their community. They really don't have tv, internet or radio, and as they are living 2 hrs from the location of the abduction I think it is totally feasible that they didn't know anything about it. JMO

you answered your own question...the point was MTR knew the area and probably would have known they were mennonites and didnt listen to tv and radio etc...so a good place to go with Tori.:moo:
 
not if that female told him she was babysitting TS when she brought her to the car..we don't know when he was told or figured out that this was a kidnapping and may never know unless he takes the stand and we hear his side to this tragedy.. my mind always goes back to the breeding of those dogs that never happened...:moo:


I have edited my response because I do not want to take any credit one way or the other for using another poster's description of TLM...

Rafferty's lawyer Dirk Derstine on Friday first laid out the defence's theory of what happened that day: McClintic abducted and murdered Tori to settle a drug debt and &#8220;offered&#8221; the little girl sexually to Rafferty. When Rafferty turned down that &#8220;gift,&#8221; McClintic told him to drive north, ostensibly to a safe house. But in a secluded laneway in rural Mount Forest, McClintic asked Rafferty for a little time alone to talk to Tori. When he returned to the car, McClintic had hammered Tori to death.

McClintic denied it vehemently.

She has admitted to luring and killing Tori but has maintained that Rafferty orchestrated events of that day, that he was the one who wanted to abduct and rape a child.


http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/a...ld-chatty-rafferty-drugs-on-day-girl-murdered
 
Cover it up with what? The whitewash dash board would have been done prior to picking up VS as his car is seen in the gas station video around the time of abduction where the white dashboard is visible.

If she urinated on the seat, he wasnt covering it up with paint....he got rid of the seat.

do we know that he didn't whitewash it again after the murder...whitewash is an antimicrobial...i would be interested to see if more comes up at the trial on that subject. Bit of a strange thing to do to the inside of your car. IMO It used to be done to inside of barns.
 
Victoria's butterfly earring.

2anq5c.jpg


http://www.lfpress.com/news/london/raffertytrial/2012/03/14/19503411.html
 
Sorry to be so out of the loop here, but why does anyone "whitewash" the dash of a vehicle?
 
Sorry to be so out of the loop here, but why does anyone "whitewash" the dash of a vehicle?

good question...has anyone heard of it used in vehicles? It used to be considered a cheap paint with disinfectant properties to farmers etc...is it a known mix used in vehicles?:moo: apparently some of the doors also and other parts of the vehicle.
 
Mr. Rafferty, 31, who has pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, sexual assault causing bodily harm and abduction, seemed unmoved by any of what was being aired. He sat in the prisoner&#8217;s box with his eyes half closed through much of the day.
And in a move that caused enormous offence to Tori&#8217;s relatives and supporters in the packed courtroom, he was sporting a new purple shirt and a grey-and-purple tie.
Purple was Tori&#8217;s favourite colour and has become an emblem for her family.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news... RSS/Atom&utm_source=Home&utm_content=2390767
 
I can't use my quote button ... for AG, my post was in response to a previous poster's comment, but it only shows my comment.

I was saying that the seminal fluid found anywhere couldn't prove rape.

I agree with you that if found inside the garbage bag with TS, common sense would no doubt conclude otherwise.

Conversely, if it was on his hand and he assisted with the clean-up, the defense could use this to argue.

Just MOO
 
I always took the white wash to be white paint - I had not considered that it was some form of anti microbial solution! Here is an article that details what white wash is and why it has been used in farms (cellars and barns)....
http://survivallady.com/?p=231

I think credit goes to Snoofer for suggesting it, but given the issues some are having with quoting going awry, I did not wanna chance it!
 
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