GUILTY GA - Lauren Giddings, 27, Macon, 26 June 2011 #13

[al66pine]

Backwoods said, just above---
The report of him missing class on the day Lauren's remains were found came several days before the "missed Monday" report and was quoted from a classmate/neighbor there at the apartments who was also attending the classes SM was attending. I'll have to check back, but I think that neighbor at that time made a comment something along the lines that he had never known SM to miss class before or that it was highly unusual.

Yes, BW, I recall the source the same way--
a classmate also attending the in-person bar review classes w. SMcD.
IIRC, an "older" (relatively, like 40+ y/o?) man.

 

[southern_comfort]

Thanks... It's coming back to me now.

I remember now that I looked at the Bar-Bri schedule and discovered that June 30 (one of the days he missed, as reported by the neighbor) was a day that many students would skip. They had just taken the multistate simulated exam and were going over the answers, and students who do well on the simulated exam generally don't waste time on that. There were probably several empty seats that day.

The other day, which I guess was Monday, June 25th... well, I don't know about that day. I wish we knew who said it, and how they would know whether he attended. I'm always wary of "sources close to the investigation", and particularly so in this case.

 

[Backwoods]

Thanks... It's coming back to me now.

I remember now that I looked at the Bar-Bri schedule and discovered that June 30 (one of the days he missed, as reported by the neighbor) was a day that many students would skip. They had just taken the multistate simulated exam and were going over the answers, and students who do well on the simulated exam generally don't waste time on that. There were probably several empty seats that day.

The other day, which I guess was Monday, June 25th... well, I don't know about that day. I wish we knew who said it, and how they would know whether he attended. I'm always wary of "sources close to the investigation", and particularly so in this case.

Do you remember what day the multistate simulated exam was given, southern_comfort? Was it on a day that same week? (Just curious.)

June 30 was also, of course, the day that some, including Stephen, were taken to the police department for questioning, I imagine likely some other bar-prep students among them. I wonder why Whitmire wasn't included in that -- he was a resident at the complex and a bar-prep student, but apparently attended the class that day. Perhaps he left before the remains were discovered, I guess.

 

[Backwoods]

Backwoods said, just above---
The report of him missing class on the day Lauren's remains were found came several days before the "missed Monday" report and was quoted from a classmate/neighbor there at the apartments who was also attending the classes SM was attending. I'll have to check back, but I think that neighbor at that time made a comment something along the lines that he had never known SM to miss class before or that it was highly unusual.

Yes, BW, I recall the source the same way--
a classmate also attending the in-person bar review classes w. SMcD.
IIRC, an "older" (relatively, like 40+ y/o?) man.

Yes -- but just to clarify: The neighbor was the source for his having missed Thursday's class, the class held the day Lauren's remains were found and friends, etc. questioned by police.

southern_comfort was asking about the source of info that SM had also missed the previous Monday's class. The only source we can find on that is "a person close to the investigation".

 

[southern_comfort]

Do you remember what day the multistate simulated exam was given, southern_comfort? Was it on a day that same week? (Just curious.)

June 30 was also, of course, the day that some, including Stephen, were taken to the police department for questioning, I imagine likely some other bar-prep students among them. I wonder why Whitmire wasn't included in that -- he was a resident at the complex and a bar-prep student, but apparently attended the class that day. Perhaps he left before the remains were discovered, I guess.

They took the simulated MBE on June 29.

 

[bessie]

Do you remember what day the multistate simulated exam was given, southern_comfort? Was it on a day that same week? (Just curious.)

June 30 was also, of course, the day that some, including Stephen, were taken to the police department for questioning, I imagine likely some other bar-prep students among them. I wonder why Whitmire wasn't included in that -- he was a resident at the complex and a bar-prep student, but apparently attended the class that day. Perhaps he left before the remains were discovered, I guess.

LE arrived at 9:00 a.m. which is also the time class started. Whitmire was already at school.

08/09/11

“I was in the class. I walked by his front door on the way to class, and when I walked by -- which was typically between 8:20 and 8:40, because it started at 9 sharp, I mean sharp, every day. And when I walked, by there was nothing going on. Nothing I saw. No police. Not a creature was stirring,” neighbor David Whitmire said

Police say they got to the apartments at 9 a.m. the morning of June 30 to resume the search for Giddings.

About the June 30 class, Whitmire also said:

That day’s guided-preparation session was important because those who attend it typically score 15 to 20 points higher on the bar exam, Whitmire said.

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/09/1659214/mcdaniel-missed-key-prep-session.html

He also said he didn't know McD to miss a class before June 30, which conflicts with the 08/12/11 article that Knox quoted.

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/12/1662957/source-mcdaniel-missed-2nd-class.html#ixzz1UmrSRLm4

I wish I had more time to search right now because I seem to recall that the Monday absence was confirmed in a later article.

Just a reminder that many articles are listed in the media thread. I still have to add the latest ones.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146732&page=2

OT: Nice avi, BW.

 

[southern_comfort]

LE arrived at 9:00 a.m. which is also the time class started. Whitmire was already at school.

08/09/11
About the June 30 class, Whitmire also said:
http://www.macon.com/2011/08/09/1659214/mcdaniel-missed-key-prep-session.html

He also said he didn't know McD to miss a class before June 30, which conflicts with the 08/12/11 article that Knox quoted.

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/12/1662957/source-mcdaniel-missed-2nd-class.html#ixzz1UmrSRLm4

I wish I had more time to search right now because I seem to recall that the Monday absence was confirmed in a later article.

Just a reminder that many articles are listed in the media thread. I still have to add the latest ones.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146732&page=2

OT: Nice avi, BW.

It's very important to keep in mind that there is no need to "ace" the bar exam. You simply need to pass. It isn't like a test in school. How high or low your passing score is doesn't really matter. If you are are consistently scoring well on practice MBE questions, you stop working on it. It would be silly to waste time on it. If you are consistently getting practice questions correct, you don't need to worry about "scoring higher".

The MBE is just one portion of the bar exam. It's a standardized test that is not state-specific, and it is multiple choice. Those particular days of a bar review course are very important if you need a higher MBE score because you are not consistently passing practice questions with a comfortable margin. It sounds like Whitmire was such a person. However, not everybody needs to work on the MBE portion of the bar. There are actually a good many who don't.

 

[AgentFrankLundy]

I know with undergraduates, legal residence often remains the home state, it seems, so I wasn't sure about in the case of someone attending/just finished with postgrad stuff. Maybe AgentFrank will check in Macon.

ETA: Speaking of AgentFrank: No Atlanta Journal Constitution story yet? Maybe tomorrow.

I haven't heard back from my source on the AJC story , will let you know when I do . I'd be glad to go down to the courthouse, I am as curious as anyone about the million dollar civil suit, but I do not think it is not yet a formal suit for which anything would be recorded or on file at the courthouse. I think all we have at this point is an ambulance chaser trying to shake down the landlord. With the Giddings blessings , apparently . But I can't really say I blame them.
I did go to the courthouse a while back maybe two months ago and ask to see the McDaniel's file. I was surprised at how thin it was. Only about three or four documents, and all had been printed by Macon Telegraph. I am guessing things will be quiet again for a while. A few motions filed here and there.
One thing I got to thinking about over the weekend , after I went to church, is we heard about Lauren attending mass three times a week,and we also heard about Stephen singing in his church choir. But this was when he was a teenager. Is there any evidence he attended church while he was at Mercer or was involved in the Baptist Student Union or anything ? Me thinks he rebelled against Glenda, lost his religious upbringing , among other things. Reminds me of a recent episode of Mad Men, when Sally Draper asks Pauline Francis about Richard Speck, the Chicago mass murderer of nursing students - "Why would he do that? " to which she replies "Well, he probably hated his mother"

 

[Sonya610]

I haven't heard back from my source on the AJC story , will let you know when I do . I'd be glad to go down to the courthouse, I am as curious as anyone about the million dollar civil suit, but I do not think it is not yet a formal suit for which anything would be recorded or on file at the courthouse. I think all we have at this point is an ambulance chaser trying to shake down the landlord. With the Giddings blessings , apparently . But I can't really say I blame them.

Me thinks he rebelled against Glenda, lost his religious upbringing , among other things. Reminds me of a recent episode of Mad Men, when Sally Draper asks Pauline Francis about Richard Speck, the Chicago mass murderer of nursing students - "Why would he do that? " to which she replies "Well, he probably hated his mother"

Yeah I think they had until the middle May to respond to the letter, and then if they don't respond (or maybe if they do respond and say forget it) then it gets filed in court. I don't know, but I don't think the letter would be filed until they start proceedings to take them to civil court. I may not be filed for a few weeks (if it is ever filed).

He probably was easing off on church, but let's face it LOTS of people will do that when they get out of their parents house and no longer have to live by their rules. Plus lots of people have problems with their mother (not saying that is the case here) and lots of men hate women, they don't run out and start hacking them to pieces.

I know it may not be PC these days but I am a strong believer in GENETIC influence (in large part because I am a dog lover and genetics are obvious in canine behavior, they also strongly affect human behavior but society pretends that is not the case). It is easy to say someone is violent because they were beaten as a child and then claim it is environmental, it is also VERY easy to say well duh, their parent had a genetic tendency toward violence so why wouldn't the kid? Same thing with crazy behavior, if the parent is crazy they often pass those genes on to their kids.

I am sure environment DOES play a part in it but when something as extreme as this occurs then there is far more involved than just being peeved at your mother!

 

[tomkat]

He might've been taking the online course. And even if he were moving across town, that doesn't mean he wasn't either out of town that week, or had mentioned to McD some other reason why he would not return until the end of the week. Say for instance, he would be busy studying. Sure, it was a risk on McD's part. Committing murder and dismemberment is risky business.

A killer who takes the time to dismember a woman's body in her own apartment is not terribly concerned about getting caught in the first place. He becomes so enrapt in acting out his violent fantasies that he disregards his personal safety. Often, he's also arrogant, believing that he can outsmart the authorities and everyone else. Not until he comes down from his high and regroups will he worry about self preservation.

Leaving the body parts in the neighbor's fridge was no riskier than leaving them in the garbage can. Suppose the neighbor had returned unexpectedly and opened his refrigerator. Other than the neighbor being traumatized, what would've been different about the outcome? Not much, really. McD would've played the same role of the shocked guy next door, hyperventilating for the camera and lamenting that if only he would have known... Better yet, suspicion might've fallen on the neighbor.

Well the body was clearly in one of the three apartments since he dumped it in the trash out in front of them. But being that LG family was mostly in MD and the BF was never popping in, if he wanted the body to go UNDETECTED.....period.......i would have used LG apt or even his own........BUT, where was the body when the kids all came-a-lookin', did it coincidentally get dumped before midnight that night or was it after midnight, say 3 am after everyone was gone? No one would have gone in HIS apt or the neighbors looking for her.........so back to square one, in one of three.............since the body was dumped in the trash out front. We say he would be less conspicuous carrying a big trash bag out of a downstairs apt to the trash can, than from an upstairs apt BUT AT SOME POINT he DID JUST THAT........he carried it outside and DOWNSTAIRS to the apt if that's where it was stashed, or the trash........depending

 

[tomkat]

Well if they had real evidence it wouldn't be a problem.
Winters saying at the bond hearing "We asked all of the people at the complex if the dogs could search their apartments" and then "McDaniel said...."

More spin. The question comes down to why not let the pups search other apartments? They are out there working and all excited, there are other neighbors saying "fine let them search" yet the dogs weren't searching those units.

That is rather odd. If most all of the tenants were fine with it why NOT? Seeing as how cadaver dog signals are such a HUGE big deal and all this late in the game.

I agree, that's why I think the cadaver dog searches will be questioned and will it appear to a jury a bit like they thought they had their guy and that is all they are focusing on?

 

[tomkat]

I haven't heard back from my source on the AJC story , will let you know when I do . I'd be glad to go down to the courthouse, I am as curious as anyone about the million dollar civil suit, but I do not think it is not yet a formal suit for which anything would be recorded or on file at the courthouse. I think all we have at this point is an ambulance chaser trying to shake down the landlord. With the Giddings blessings , apparently . But I can't really say I blame them.
I did go to the courthouse a while back maybe two months ago and ask to see the McDaniel's file. I was surprised at how thin it was. Only about three or four documents, and all had been printed by Macon Telegraph. I am guessing things will be quiet again for a while. A few motions filed here and there.
One thing I got to thinking about over the weekend , after I went to church, is we heard about Lauren attending mass three times a week,and we also heard about Stephen singing in his church choir. But this was when he was a teenager. Is there any evidence he attended church while he was at Mercer or was involved in the Baptist Student Union or anything ? Me thinks he rebelled against Glenda, lost his religious upbringing , among other things. Reminds me of a recent episode of Mad Men, when Sally Draper asks Pauline Francis about Richard Speck, the Chicago mass murderer of nursing students - "Why would he do that? " to which she replies "Well, he probably hated his mother"

Mercy...........i hope my kids never hate me! But it's true and I do hear that alot too. So I think a mother could be bossy and also overlook so much and in the meantime, never see what is in the kids head. Mixed messages create monsters, but you would think (hope) some of the good would have rubbed off huh?!

 

[tomkat]

Yes, and since this guy was a law student living across town I would think he might be taking the bar prep classes too, which would bring him to the school. Since he had stuff in the apartment and was moving "a little at a time" the risk of him being right there and stopping in pick up more items or use the bathroom or whatever would be very high.

If he had come home and opened that refridgerator and then wondered "Hey what's this bag doing here? What is it?" he likely would have needed counseling to get over his fear of opening refrigerator doors.

I kind of agree. Mostly. It was risky in any of them but his own. I posted on this earlier.

 

[Backwoods]

LE arrived at 9:00 a.m. which is also the time class started. Whitmire was already at school.

08/09/11
About the June 30 class, Whitmire also said:
http://www.macon.com/2011/08/09/1659214/mcdaniel-missed-key-prep-session.html

He also said he didn't know McD to miss a class before June 30, which conflicts with the 08/12/11 article that Knox quoted.

http://www.macon.com/2011/08/12/1662957/source-mcdaniel-missed-2nd-class.html#ixzz1UmrSRLm4

I wish I had more time to search right now because I seem to recall that the Monday absence was confirmed in a later article.

Just a reminder that many articles are listed in the media thread. I still have to add the latest ones.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=146732&page=2

OT: Nice avi, BW.

bbm: I really don't remember it ever being "sourced" any further.

OT bbm: Thanks! I wish you could see the pups a little better -- may try to recrop and reload later. (Those pups are grown now -- I'd been waiting about a year for my daughter to send me that pic, LOL)

 

[Backwoods]

I haven't heard back from my source on the AJC story , will let you know when I do . I'd be glad to go down to the courthouse, I am as curious as anyone about the million dollar civil suit, but I do not think it is not yet a formal suit for which anything would be recorded or on file at the courthouse. I think all we have at this point is an ambulance chaser trying to shake down the landlord. With the Giddings blessings , apparently . But I can't really say I blame them.
I did go to the courthouse a while back maybe two months ago and ask to see the McDaniel's file. I was surprised at how thin it was. Only about three or four documents, and all had been printed by Macon Telegraph. I am guessing things will be quiet again for a while. A few motions filed here and there.
One thing I got to thinking about over the weekend , after I went to church, is we heard about Lauren attending mass three times a week,and we also heard about Stephen singing in his church choir. But this was when he was a teenager. Is there any evidence he attended church while he was at Mercer or was involved in the Baptist Student Union or anything ? Me thinks he rebelled against Glenda, lost his religious upbringing , among other things. Reminds me of a recent episode of Mad Men, when Sally Draper asks Pauline Francis about Richard Speck, the Chicago mass murderer of nursing students - "Why would he do that? " to which she replies "Well, he probably hated his mother"

bbm: AgentFrank, we weren't meaning filings relating to the looming civil suit: Since the threatened suit seems to be being generated by Lauren's estate, it seems to mean that either (a) she had a will or (b) an estate has been created by a probate court. We were talking about checking into probate records to find who the executor or administrator (the "personal representative") of the estate is. If Macon was her legal residence, the Bibb County Probate Judge office would be the place to check, I believe.

 

[Backwoods]

Does anyone remember for sure whether the downstairs refrigerator was the only one removed?

I was asking about this earlier but think it got lost in the shuffle.

If it was the only one, I'd have to ask -- why just that one. I'm thinking maybe (a) the dogs hit on it and/or (b) the blood traces (I don't know that the blood would have to be human?) showed up in preliminary on-site testing. (I don't think we "know" the why of it -- these are just my theories. Anybody think of others?)

If the two other fridges weren't removed, then, I'd have to think that neither (a) nor (b) above were true for them.

 

[Backwoods]

I haven't heard back from my source on the AJC story , will let you know when I do . I'd be glad to go down to the courthouse, I am as curious as anyone about the million dollar civil suit, but I do not think it is not yet a formal suit for which anything would be recorded or on file at the courthouse. I think all we have at this point is an ambulance chaser trying to shake down the landlord. With the Giddings blessings , apparently . But I can't really say I blame them.
I did go to the courthouse a while back maybe two months ago and ask to see the McDaniel's file. I was surprised at how thin it was. Only about three or four documents, and all had been printed by Macon Telegraph. I am guessing things will be quiet again for a while. A few motions filed here and there.
One thing I got to thinking about over the weekend , after I went to church, is we heard about Lauren attending mass three times a week,and we also heard about Stephen singing in his church choir. But this was when he was a teenager. Is there any evidence he attended church while he was at Mercer or was involved in the Baptist Student Union or anything ? Me thinks he rebelled against Glenda, lost his religious upbringing , among other things. Reminds me of a recent episode of Mad Men, when Sally Draper asks Pauline Francis about Richard Speck, the Chicago mass murderer of nursing students - "Why would he do that? " to which she replies "Well, he probably hated his mother"

bbm: It does seems like things might "be quiet again for a while." Couple of things, though, I wonder if we might hear from soon:

(1) the bond appeal - anybody know any time frame for when this might move ahead?

(2) The Apr. 13 news report at the link below says: "Hogue says he plans to file motions for bond in the burglary and sexual exploitation of children charges next week."

The "next week" time frame for that has come and gone and we haven't heard anything. Either they have decided to hold off a little on those or our media pals are not keeping us posted.

http://www.41nbc.com/news/local-news/11627-lawyers-mcdaniels-bond-unconstitutional-file-appeal

 

[AgentFrankLundy]

bbm: AgentFrank, we weren't meaning filings relating to the looming civil suit: Since the threatened suit seems to be being generated by Lauren's estate, it seems to mean that either (a) she had a will or (b) an estate has been created by a probate court. We were talking about checking into probate records to find who the executor or administrator (the "personal representative") of the estate is. If Macon was her legal residence, the Bibb County Probate Judge office would be the place to check, I believe.

Got it !! Challenge accepted. Will report back .

 

[bessie]

Does anyone remember for sure whether the downstairs refrigerator was the only one removed?

I was asking about this earlier but think it got lost in the shuffle.

If it was the only one, I'd have to ask -- why just that one. I'm thinking maybe (a) the dogs hit on it and/or (b) the blood traces (I don't know that the blood would have to be human?) showed up in preliminary on-site testing. (I don't think we "know" the why of it -- these are just my theories. Anybody think of others?)

If the two other fridges weren't removed, then, I'd have to think that neither (a) nor (b) above were true for them.

Only the downstairs refrigerator was removed. Here is a photo of LG's kitchen taken on 07/29/2011. The refrigerator is there.

More images from inside her apartment can be found at this link.

http://www.macon.com/2011/07/31/1649731/giddings-case-apartments-gradually.html

I believe LE discovered the blood in the downstairs refrigerator within a day or two of LG's body being discovered. Looking back over the first thread, I was reminded of the early rumors about the refrigerator and the "frozen body parts" found in neighbors' trash. That has never been reported officially, so it might not be true. Since rumors usually are based at least partially on fact, however, I have a hunch the rumors were borne from talk about the refrigerator reported by people near the scene those first couple of days.

Why search the refrigerator? A few possible reasons come to mind. 1. There were obvious signs the torso had been refrigerated; 2. a lingering odor inside the downstairs apartment; 3. and/or the dogs hit on it. Any one or all three could be true.

So here's my theory:
Luminol would've revealed any traces of blood invisible to the naked eye. Once blood showed up inside the fridge, tests performed right at the scene would have shown it to be human. Here is one product used by LE for this purpose.
http://www.abacusdiagnostics.com/hematrace.htm

Once the blood was determined to be human, they would have secured samples for more testing. Over the following 7-10 days, the blood was tested and compared to a DNA profile of LG's remains, showing it was Lauren's blood. After confirming a match, the refrigerator was removed as evidence.

 

[tomkat]

Yeah, I think I've finally put to rest the notion of staging. I think he simply got sloppy and ran out of time. Not to be facetious, but I guess it's not a good idea to commit murder while you're preparing for the bar exam. As it is, he missed class on Monday.

I agree. Uh, with the "ran out of time, got sloppy" part..........probably true about the other as well !! He had too many dumb ideas all the way around, maybe not so smart afterall.