Trial Thread, May 1, 2012 Defense begins it case in chief

[crazyladi]

It puzzles me as to why the Crown didn't present the evidence.

The witness went to the police with this information days after the abduction.

She helped LE start looking for a woman with a white puffy coat, but her testimony wasn't credible enough for the Crown to put her on the stand?

Does Derstine now point to this witness...........and tell them that without him revealing the information, they wouldn't have heard this key testimony.

Does he ask the jury how much other information that doesn't suit the allegations, the Crown hasn't disclosed?

Powerful words in front of the jury........to create reasonable doubt.

JMO...........

Because it wasnt going to make a difference. They proved their point with evidence and all the people he had take the stand. JMO

 

[Thinkzerz]

I do not think it is safe to say. I could have been someone else with a white coat. It could have been someone else with a white sweater. I also think it would be odd that she was the only person that saw TLM enter. Also TLM is a criminal, while not exactly a rocket scientist I do not believe she would have taken such a great risk. People think VS must have been targeted because apparently TLM walked into the school. So how would she know where to go to find TS? How would she know which locker was hers? How would she know the layout of the school? IMO she would not have been that bold. Much easier to wait outside and let them come to you.

I find it odd that only 2 people saw TLM and Tori walk away from the school. It seems not many witnesses saw TLM. She was there at the school area no matter what and only 2 people saw her? This is crazy that people are in such as fast pace life these days and don't see what is going on around them JMO.

 

[crazyladi]

Do you have link to police report? I don't seem to have that. I wnder if part of what is under the ban could possibly be a relationship between TLM and TM, and could she have possibly known TS was walking home by herself? And will the public get more info about the drug rip off TM testified about, and clarification about the "vindictive" comment? JMO

If they had evidence of this maybe it would have been provided already with the Crown or when Derstine cross examined TM.

I am sure none of us will ever find out at this point and whatever comes out who knows if it is true or not.

 

[Sailor Bug]

Steven D'Souza ‏ @cbcsteve
Rodney Stafford says Crown presented strong case. Not surprised #Rafferty didn't take stand #sl http://yfrog.com/odiltpgtj

God Bless Tori's Family


...so sad...her Dad's hair has turned grey during this trial

JUCTICE is coming for Victoria Rodney

 

[Ardy]

Just trying to understand the argument here. Are you saying that if it can be shown that Tori was targeted, then it logically follows that MR is not guilty of kidnapping, rape and murder? That all the charges rest on this one fact - if it is proven and jury relies on it in their deliberations?

Salem

IMO.....the jury has two choices.

Either they believe TLM's version of events, or they believe MR's.

The reason for the abduction is a key component of both their versions.

TLM claims she randomly selected a child, because she was under the influence of MR and was carrying out his wishes. Her abduction of VS under those conditions, strengthens her claims that MR sexually assaulted VS and murdered her (as per her first versions of events). As we no know that TLM confessed to the murder, MR can only be found guilty if he participated in the murder, ............or kidnapped or sexually assaulted VS.

If he is found not guilty of kidnapping or sexual assault, he cannot be found guilty of murder, as there was no proof of intent that a murder should take place, or would take place as a result of illegal acts.

MRs version is that TLM kidnapped VS deliberately to hold as collateral for a drug debt. His version of events after that initial contact supports that theory........true of false as it may be.

MR's lawyers are not fighting a murder charge, but the kidnapping and sexual assault.........because without them the murder charge fails.

JMO...........

 

[crazyladi]

I find it odd that only 2 people saw TLM and Tori walk away from the school. It seems not many witnesses saw TLM. She was there at the school area no matter what and only 2 people saw her? This is crazy that people are in such as fast pace life these days and don't see what is going on around them JMO.

Its possible they always saw the Grandmother pick them up and never the mother so maybe seeing a younger person with her didnt set off any red flags. JMO

 

[Salem]

Do you have link to police report? I don't seem to have that. I wnder if part of what is under the ban could possibly be a relationship between TLM and TM, and could she have possibly known TS was walking home by herself? And will the public get more info about the drug rip off TM testified about, and clarification about the "vindictive" comment? JMO

I don't have a link. The inconsistencies came out in the Crown's cross and was discussed in the tweets. I think the tweets are around pages 19-20ish.

Again, I'm having a hard time with the argument. What will be proven if it can be shown that TLM targeted TS? How does this absovle MR of the charges? I'm not understanding that?

Salem

 

[Wondergirl]

Anyone else think the <modsnip> was going to get on the stand, and backed out at the last minute?

JMO

 

[tmhco]

Not one witness could testify that TM knew MR or that VS knew TLM. End of story. JMO

 

[myzzy]

I think why the defence witness could not be mistaken is because of the jacket, she seem to state that the reason she noticed her was because she was wearing A jacket, and it stood out because it was a warmer day. If it was a outright winter jacket then yes it would stand out, but if it was a wind breaker then even on warm days i see jackets..This information was before the video of the jacket, so its quite credible

Seeing someone in a winter jacket on a warm day is like seeing a winter jacket in Florida on a cruise ship, it would stand out.

 

[snoofer]

God Bless Tori's Family


...so sad...her Dad's hair has turned grey during this trial

JUCTICE is coming for Victoria Rodney

Yes, he has aged through this trial. Rodney's kids can be proud of their father and how he has set an example of how to soldier on in the face of great tragedy. What a good example for his son's. I think we will be hearing from Rodney Stafford many times over the next years; he has come into his own and has so much to offer others in a similar crisis. MOO I remember when he rode his bike across country, I felt like every revolution of his pedals was a tear shed for Tori. It was powerful example of how to positively push through tribulation and positive coping skills. JMO With all the talk of drugs and tragedy in lives during this trial; he delivered a needed message for this community about developing good coping skills and for young people, that drugs are not the answer. IMO

 

[crazyladi]

IMO.....the jury has two choices.

Either they believe TLM's version of events, or they believe MR's.

The reason for the abduction is a key component of both their versions.

TLM claims she randomly selected a child, because she was under the influence of MR and was carrying out his wishes. Her abduction of VS under those conditions, strengthens her claims that MR sexually assaulted VS and murdered her (as per her first versions of events). As we no know that TLM confessed to the murder, MR can only be found guilty if he participated in the murder, ............or kidnapped or sexually assaulted VS.

If he is found not guilty of kidnapping or sexual assault, he cannot be found guilty of murder.

MRs version is that TLM kidnapped VS deliberately to hold as collateral for a drug debt. His version of events after that initial contact supports that theory........true of false as it may be.

MR's lawyers are not fighting a murder charge, but the kidnapping and sexual assault.........because without them the murder charge fails.

JMO...........

Well I truly think they will believe TLM"s version. Credible or not the crown had evidence to back almost everything she said and the Defence had ummmm how do I put this....NOTHING!

I can see if everything TLM testified about had nothing to do with the evidence. I would think the same thing but it did infact have a huge impact on what happened that fateful day.

Sorry I really have never felt that MR was as "Duped" as people say he was. He was a manipulator and a liar.

 

[Sillybilly]

If they had evidence of this maybe it would have been provided already with the Crown or when Derstine cross examined TM.

I am sure none of us will ever find out at this point and whatever comes out who knows if it is true or not.

Even IF the drug debt scenario is true, it is likely that neither side was allowed to present info in that regard <modsnip>.

 

[kaas]

It appears to me that the defence to the charges is that:
There is no definitive proof that sexual assault took place. As per the defence questioning the deposit of semon and blood being capable of deposit at different times.
TLM admitting to murdering Victoria herself. Not MR.
That it was TLM who abducted the child, not MR. Therefore negating the kidnapping etc charges against him.


I have been following this case from the beginning and cannot imagine the horror and grief that the families must be suffering. We searched back fields, back lanes etc. and our hearts broke.
A child should be able to walk home from school or to a friends house without fear.
A parent should be secure in knowing that their child is safe to do so.

 

[~n/t~]

Steven D'Souza &#8207; @cbcsteve
@SusanaGomezBaez As far as I've seen, he hasn't shown much emotion or reaction today

 

[crazyladi]

Not one witness could testify that TM knew MR or that VS knew TLM. End of story. JMO

Exactly. TLM was young she was approachable and TS didnt fear her because she was female. There is no link even with all the coincidences and the circles that they all ran in. JMO

 

[myzzy]

I don't have a link. The inconsistencies came out in the Crown's cross and was discussed in the tweets. I think the tweets are around pages 19-20ish.

Again, I'm having a hard time with the argument. What will be proven if it can be shown that TLM targeted TS? How does this absovle MR of the charges? I'm not understanding that?

Salem

i take it as 3 seperate charges, not all or one, regardless they all hold a great length of prison time, but proving each one is what i think the defence is trying seperatly and if MR is only charged with Murder its better then being convicted of rape and kidnapping.???

Kidnapping - Charge 1 ( Defence witness i believe is to prove it was not a kidnapping)

Rape - Charge 2 ( Yet to come as the defence has not rested, just adjured)

Murder - Charge 3 ( Yet to come as the defence has not rested, just adjured)

 

[antiquegirl]

I find today's witness perfectly credible. There were two minor discrepancies between her original statement to LE and her testimony: At first she said she couldn't remember the colour of the woman's pants. She later said they were dark. She seemed fixated on the white jacket (thought it was inappropriate for the weather), so she obviously was paying less attention to the pants. I don't think this is a big deal.

AM980.ca&#8207;@AM980_Court
On April 11th, she was asked detailed questions. She was asked about clothing. Said she couldn't tell what colour the woman's pants were.

.James Armstrong&#8207;@jamesarmstrong7
Witness says girls pants were darker than white.

The second discrepancy involved the distance the witness saw the woman from. She estimated about two bus lengths in her LE statement. She now says one, or less than two. Were these short buses or long ones? We don't know. Even if they were the longer vehicles, it's not a long distance when one is sitting in a car with nothing else to look at - just a few meters.

AM980.ca&#8207;@AM980_Court
Carnegie notes it was less than two bus lengths, according to her. She says it was less.

AM980.ca&#8207;@AM980_Court
She was one bus length away from the woman in white, she says.

This was a reluctant witness for the defence who applied for and received a publication ban on her name, for obvious reasons. The fact that she's a grandmother has no bearing on anything. I know some very young, vibrant grandmothers. Regardless, her eyesight or age was not questioned. I see no reason to disbelieve her testimony.

Had there been any other mother fitting this description (especially the white jacket) picking up a child on April 8th at OSPS, I am positive LE would have found and questioned them within the past three years. The Crown would have put them on the stand during their turn in order to discredit today's witness's testimony.

Avery Moore&#8207;@AveryFreeFMNews
She says she is sure it was the same woman she saw go into the school. Same jacket, hair pulled back.

Steven D'Souza&#8207;@cbcsteve
Witness being asked about identifying woman in white coat. Says she's sure it was same person who entered school

As for Tori's teacher's testimony, I do not think she was lying. I think she and the other teachers were very busy at that time getting the children ready to leave and putting them on buses. As someone else posted, she could have meant the classroom door, not the outside door. TLM could have been lurking in an empty classroom without being noticed.

I DO believe that this proves that Tori was targeted and the reasons have been stated many times. The implications of TLM entering the school are huge and have also been explained, so there's no need for me to repeat them.

JMO

 

[crazyladi]

I have always told my daughter and I am sure you all have told yours. You hang around trouble you will be in trouble. You with someone who steals you will be in trouble as if you stole yourself.

They both were trouble and both had evil sides to them. Their worlds collided that day at the pizza shop and their sick twisted minds decided that they need to do what they have always wanted to do. He knew TLM would act that is why he also thought that she would take the fall for him...His mistake I think was his big mouth....."you'd do anything for a little bit of love" Some how I think that was the straw that broke the camels back. JMO.... Lesson learned for him I guess.

 

[Sailor Bug]

Anyone else think the <modsnip> was going to get on the stand, and backed out at the last minute?

JMO

Wondergirl
I never believed for a moment that Rafferty would take the stand

the <modsnip> that he is wouldn't allow it

jmo