Trial Thread 7 May 2012 - Closing Arguments, Defense then the Crown

[nettie_82]

Aside from TLM's testimony, there is no proof that they cleaned the car at all - nothing to back up that statement. And she conveniently couldn't remember where that car wash was. I would think if they had cleaned the car that thoroughly, the scrap of fabric wouldn't have even been there. It would have been tossed out or in the vacuum cleaner.

JMO

Ok, but they cleaned the car in Cambridge, and I believe she said it was after that she was cutting the pieces out of the back seat. So maybe it wouldn't have been tossed out.

 

[Alethea Dice]

k......so why IS one scrap left? JMO

No idea. I can only assume that they either didn't clean the car, or didn't do a very good job of it.

JMO

 

[Allanae]

Where is everyone getting this BA tools? I thought Armstrong was just the maker of the tools. They make industrial tools...... not actually BA's tools.

 

[littlebirdie]

Also that Tlm ruined their lives. Feel bad for her and I understand her pain however I respected RS presser because he understands the pain that the mother feels, it was a selfless act to say what he said and I have the upmost respect for him. I stand in awe about how he is holding it all together.

I totally agree with you. The part of your quote that I highlighted is because, in my opinion, his love for Victoria and his desire to honor her memory, as well as being a role model for her brother Daryn in how to cope for the rest of their lives with this nightmare through being as positive as possible is the best way to deal with this. Possibly it is a healing process for him to bring awareness to the public and not let her tragic, short life be ended in vain. This could be where he draws his strength. The alternative is to give up and give in and it has been obvious he isn't about to do that. Again, JMO.

 

[snoofer]

So is he trying to confuse the Jury? I dont get why he would even throw that in there when there was no mention when BA was on the stand about him having her tools. SOOOO confusing

maybe derstine knows that he wont be able to address anything that crown says tomorrow and he was ANTICIPATING crown to bring up something and he was responding in advance. MOO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Ok, but they cleaned the car in Cambridge, and I believe she said it was after that she was cutting the pieces out of the back seat. So maybe it wouldn't have been tossed out.

That's true. But if he was so intent on getting rid of evidence, wouldn't he have vacuumed and cleaned it again at some point before he was arrested? Why was that tiny piece still there?

JMO

 

[Jezbel]

Ok, but they cleaned the car in Cambridge, and I believe she said it was after that she was cutting the pieces out of the back seat. So maybe it wouldn't have been tossed out.

I think you're right nettie, I believe TLM cut the back seat after the clean up which would make sense how that piece of fabric was found in the car.

 

[crazyladi]

Aside from TLM's testimony, there is no proof that they cleaned the car at all - nothing to back up that statement. And she conveniently couldn't remember where that car wash was. I would think if they had cleaned the car that thoroughly, the scrap of fabric wouldn't have even been there. It would have been tossed out or in the vacuum cleaner.

JMO

Yet her testimony is evidence.

 

[nettie_82]

That's true. But if he was so intent on getting rid of evidence, wouldn't he have vacuumed and cleaned it again at some point before he was arrested? Why was that tiny piece still there?

JMO

You never know where it could have got stuck and gone unnoticed. It was there...no doubt about that.

 

[crazyladi]

That's true. But if he was so intent on getting rid of evidence, wouldn't he have vacuumed and cleaned it again at some point before he was arrested? Why was that tiny piece still there?

JMO

Isn't it possible that he missed that piece?

 

[Alethea Dice]

Where is everyone getting this BA tools? I thought Armstrong was just the maker of the tools. They make industrial tools...... not actually BA's tools.

Personally, I think that was just a mistake in the tweet. All the rest of that part was just talking about him already having his own tools.

JMO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

Aside from TLM's testimony, there is no proof that they cleaned the car at all - nothing to back up that statement. And she conveniently couldn't remember where that car wash was. I would think if they had cleaned the car that thoroughly, the scrap of fabric wouldn't have even been there. It would have been tossed out or in the vacuum cleaner.

JMO

I don't think she 'conveniently forgot', I think she did forget. She's not from Cambridge. She also wasn't from Mount Forest and aside from giving LE landmarks that she could remember, like the house siting crossways on the corner and the big tree and silos, she couldn't find TS's body.

 

[nettie_82]

As for TLM not being able to find the car wash. I really am not surprised, to some people it is second nature for them to go somewhere once and remember exactly how to get there after that, for other people they could travel the same the same roads a hundred times and still not know exactly how to get to a location. Just because she couldn't find the car wash proves nothing really. I believe without a shadow of doubt they did clean the car. All MOO.

 

[Alethea Dice]

Isn't it possible that he missed that piece?

Sure it is, just wouldn't have been very thorough of him.

 

[Heliotrope]

No idea. I can only assume that they either didn't clean the car, or didn't do a very good job of it.

JMO

That's forensic science for you, isn't it? Your average Joe thinks he's erased all traces of a crime because he/she can't see it; and then along come a bunch of scientists who say "not so fast."

It was interesting how she testified that the material was consistent with something that had been cut. Who cuts stains out of items? Treat a stain with a stain stick, don't cut it out. Especially a car - you know what the replacement part won't be cheap.

"RaffertyLFP:
Doupe determined the piece of material found in Rafferty's car had been cut recently"

 

[nettie_82]

I don't think she 'conveniently forgot', I think she did forget. She's not from Cambridge. She also wasn't from Mount Forest and aside from giving LE landmarks that she could remember, like the house siting crossways on the corner and the big tree and silos, she couldn't find TS's body.

EXACTLY! I believe it has been said she doesn't have a licence. Therefore, she most likely is always a passenger, and doesn't have to remember exact roads. I know lots of people who are the same way...and do have their licence. She remembered landmarks, but not roads in both trying to locate the murder scene and IMO trying to locate the car wash.

 

[snoofer]

Thank you. It always helps to put a face to the name.

k Otto... I am gonna agree with ya on that one. ;O)

 

[Alethea Dice]

That's forensic science for you, isn't it? Your average Joe thinks he's erased all traces of a crime because he/she can't see it; and then along come a bunch of scientists who say "not so fast."

It was interesting how she testified that the material was consistent with something that had been cut. Who cuts stains out of items? Treat a stain with a stain stick, don't cut it out. Especially a car - you know what the replacement part won't be cheap.

"RaffertyLFP:
Doupe determined the piece of material found in Rafferty's car had been cut recently"

Why cut the stain out anyway if you're just going to throw the whole seat out?

 

[crazyladi]

Where is everyone getting this BA tools? I thought Armstrong was just the maker of the tools. They make industrial tools...... not actually BA's tools.

I don't think there is such a name of tools. This was something derstine threw out there. I asked for it to be clarified but no answers so I want to assume the we're armstrongs tools? Unless you are talking about a saw?

Anyone ? It makes no sense like I said it was an odd comment

@AM980_Court: Rafferty said, according to McClintic, it would be "too heat" to use Armstrong's tools. Had to head to Home Depot.

 

[Heliotrope]

As for TLM not being able to find the car wash. I really am not surprised, to some people it is second nature for them to go somewhere once and remember exactly how to get there after that, for other people they could travel the same the same roads a hundred times and still not know exactly how to get to a location. Just because she couldn't find the car wash proves nothing really. I believe without a shadow of doubt they did clean the car. All MOO.

Agree, Nettie. I also think it's important to consider that she was a passenger, not a driver. It makes a big difference.

I've gone places as a passenger, and then assumed I would be able to find the place again as a driver, because I'd been there before. Not necessarily true.

Works both ways - when I go someplace as a passenger, where I'd normally be the driver, I notice different things, landmarks, interesting houses, etc - things I never notice when I'm paying attention to the road.


ETA - this personal experience makes me believe that he could have ended the search for Tori's body and, for whatever reason, chose not to.