Trial Thread 7 May 2012 - Closing Arguments, Defense then the Crown

[flipflop]

That's true. But if he was so intent on getting rid of evidence, wouldn't he have vacuumed and cleaned it again at some point before he was arrested? Why was that tiny piece still there?

JMO

Perhaps they did clean it, the small piece of fabric was missed and fell to the floor when MR removed the seat MOO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

EXACTLY! I believe it has been said she doesn't have a licence. Therefore, she most likely is always a passenger, and doesn't have to remember exact roads. I know lots of people who are the same way...and do have their licence. She remembered landmarks, but not roads in both trying to locate the murder scene and IMO trying to locate the car wash.

That's how I am if I am a passenger, I just remember landmarks, I never remember stree tsigns, I wouldn't be able to tell you how long it takes to get somewhere unless I had driven that route a hundred times. I'm terrible with directions, I get confused as to where south, north, east, west is. It took a long time to get oriented when I moved to Vancouver in the early 90's until my BF said just remember that the ocean is west, Montreal is east, Grouse Mountain is North and Surrey is South.

 

[nettie_82]

I know this has likely been asked before here but I honestly can't remember the answer. Say the jury finds MTR not guilty of the charges before him now, can they find him guilty of lesser charges? Or is it the three before him now, or he walks!

 

[tmhco]

I don't think there is such a name of tools. This was something derstine threw out there. I asked for it to be clarified but no answers so I want to assume the we're armstrongs tools? Unless you are talking about a saw?

Anyone ? It makes no sense like I said it was an odd comment

@AM980_Court: Rafferty said, according to McClintic, it would be "too heat" to use Armstrong's tools. Had to head to Home Depot.

Is he suggesting MR wanted to borrow tools from his former girlfriend/supplier BA? If that is the case, doesn't that show he knew? JMO.

 

[AbbeyR]

Originally Posted by JayFriend

We're far from a verdict and sentencing at this point, but what if the judge instructs the jury to not find him guilty of murder, but just indignity to a dead body? There is a case before the court in Woodstock right now where a man is accused of a murder his girlfriend has already pleaded as accessory to and is now out and he's only pleading guilty of indignity, yet he allegedly did the killing.

http://www.woodstocksentinelreview.c...k-witness-says

Derstine's defence would be far more credible if he'd pleaded Rafferty for indignity to a dead body.

BBM - then he should be charged with that, and with that alone i would think would hold a lengthy prison sentence. <snipped>

I'm pretty sure that committing an indignity to a human body carries a maximum penalty of 5 years imprisonment. (too short, in my opinion)

I truly do not see how it would be possible for that charge to be positioned as an alternative to a murder conviction in this case. I'm not worried that this will happen though!

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I know this has likely been asked before here but I honestly can't remember the answer. Say the jury finds MTR not guilty of the charges before him now, can they find him guilty of lesser charges? Or is it the three before him now, or he walks!

I think it depends on the judge's charge. If Heeney includes 2nd degree or manslaughter, then they can find him guilty of that. I'm just wondering if Heeny will include accessory, or conspiracy to cover a crime (if there is such a thing). JMO

 

[crazyladi]

Is he suggesting MR wanted to borrow tools from his former girlfriend/supplier BA? If that is the case, doesn't that show he knew? JMO.

Or he already had them in his trunk and Tlm said it was too heat to use them so go to home depot. IMO I think he made the original comment about the murder but only told the defense what she said.

 

[Macright]

Aside from TLM's testimony, there is no proof that they cleaned the car at all - nothing to back up that statement. And she conveniently couldn't remember where that car wash was. I would think if they had cleaned the car that thoroughly, the scrap of fabric wouldn't have even been there. It would have been tossed out or in the vacuum cleaner.

JMO

I believe that scrap of material was left behind when he took the seat out in March.. he probably had trouble removing it and a piece tore off...who knows because forensics did not state that the blood was TS MR could have cut his finger/hand in the removal of the seat...obviously it wasn't important to use in his closing statement...JMO

 

[snoofer]

Why cut the stain out anyway if you're just going to throw the whole seat out?

quick fix in case pulled over for something? then got rid of it? moo

 

[Macright]

That's true. But if he was so intent on getting rid of evidence, wouldn't he have vacuumed and cleaned it again at some point before he was arrested? Why was that tiny piece still there?

JMO

also he was installing speakers with another "girlfriend" and she was helping him so maybe he ripped a piece out at that time...who knows...have never believed that they took the car to a car wash at night...that was just another one in the string of lies from the mouth of that TLM.....JMO

 

[tmhco]

Or he already had them in his trunk and Tlm said it was too heat to use them so go to home depot. IMO I think he made the original comment about the murder but only told the defense what she said.

That still tells me he knew what she went into HD to purchase. Unless I am missing something. JMO

 

[Hello_Kitty]

I believe that scrap of material was left behind when he took the seat out in March.. he probably had trouble removing it and a piece tore off...who knows because forensics did not state that the blood was TS MR could have cut his finger/hand in the removal of the seat...obviously it wasn't important to use in his closing statement...JMO

It wasn't torn, it was cut - forensics testified that it was cut.

 

[crazyladi]

That still tells me he knew what she went into HD to purchase. Unless I am missing something. JMO

Nope I don't think you are jmo

 

[Tahorn]

Aside from TLM's testimony, there is no proof that they cleaned the car at all - nothing to back up that statement. And she conveniently couldn't remember where that car wash was. I would think if they had cleaned the car that thoroughly, the scrap of fabric wouldn't have even been there. It would have been tossed out or in the vacuum cleaner.

JMO

I also believe that TLM and MR DNA found on that side of the car would have been washed away as well ... As well as the sperm cells all over the back seat

 

[Macright]

It wasn't torn, it was cut - forensics testified that it was cut.

so maybe he had to cut a piece...who knows...JMO not important in my mind..just saying....

 

[Hello_Kitty]

also he was installing speakers with another "girlfriend" and she was helping him so maybe he ripped a piece out at that time...who knows...have never believed that they took the car to a car wash at night...that was just another one in the string of lies from the mouth of that TLM.....JMO

Why not? Self-serves are generally opened 24hrs.

 

[crazyladi]

who would be looking for him? wow that's a scary thought...JMO

Oh I don't expect this to happen he is getting 25 yrs however if that 1 percent can't reach a verdict there will be outrage across the world jmo.

 

[Macright]

Why not? Self-serves are generally opened 24hrs.

sorry that should read that night.....finger slipped...........................................

 

[Alison]

Sure it is, just wouldn't have been very thorough of him.

Well considering he is a drug addict, who always had a terribly messy car, and appears to be qutie lazy (unless it has to do with the ladies). So I could definantly see him not being all that thorough. JMO
I believe he thought he cleaned up well, and that he got rid of a lot of evidence but thank god science has come as far as it has and they were able to locate evidence in his vehicle and on his gym bag.

 

[Hello_Kitty]

so maybe he had to cut a piece...who knows...JMO not important in my mind..just saying....

Sort of like Derstine bringing up TLM's penchant for Necro music not important.