GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #1

[Knox]

I assume the family who lost their dog to AB was terrified he would come back and do the same to them.

I assume JC was afraid, until now, to speak out about his abuse. According to the relationship she had with the great aunt who raised her, maybe she didn't know how much was too much...

I assume AB had a horrible childhood and never attached emotionally to anyone on a healthy level.

The cycle never ends.

I think all your assumptions are most likely true, great post DM.

 

[Mimiof8]

http://www.upnorthlive.com/news/story.aspx?id=771273#.T-6C6Yd5t0F

Anthony Gardner, a contractor says, "On Wednesday we heard a lot ofarguing. I didn't think much of it; I wish I would have now."

He says other crew members smelled something burning last Thursday. They said it smelled different, like flesh. They have been interviewed by investigators several times.

To me it sounds like Wednesday before Carnel disappeared.

Here's the link to Mr Gardners interview, no mention of a chimney.

 

[ToosieJoie33]

http://www.abc12.com/story/18915753...s-into-death-of-4-year-old-carnel-chamberlain

He mentions the chimney in this one

 

[Cubby]

http://www.abc12.com/story/18915753...s-into-death-of-4-year-old-carnel-chamberlain

He mentions the chimney in this one

IF this is the same article you linked on the last page, there is no mention of a chimney in the written article at the above link.

Where are you seeing this info about a chimney? If it is in one of the video's, please add at what time in the video the chimney is mentioned. it is not in the written article you linked.

 

[JusticeforCarnel]

Everyone keeps questioning whether or not she was abused...

He murdered a 4 year old.
He killed serveral dogs and cats...one even being set on fire.
He has a restraining order against him because he abused his ex girlfriend and threatened to murder her dad if she left him.
He stabbed his sister and treatened to stab another peer.

Of course he abused her! I agree with the person who posted about stolk Holmes syndrome. She may have at the time believed AB that doing these things would make him a man. NOT saying that is okay but it certainly doesn't hold her responsible. She lost her beautiful baby boy. She is 21. Have some heart people. Not everything is black and white here.

 

[Mimiof8]

IF this is the same article you linked on the last page, there is no mention of a chimney in the written article at the above link.

Where are you seeing this info about a chimney? If it is in one of the video's, please add at what time in the video the chimney is mentioned. it is not in the written article you linked.

Hey Cubby I finally played the first video (the one with cc pic). Mr. Gardner is interviewed. About halfway thru the video, he states that the crew noticied a strange smell coming from the chimney...he motioned with his hand and said you can see it right over there.


I'm parphrasing (sp) as I'm typing with one hand while my 6 yr old grandson is sleeping next to me.

 

[Knox]

http://www.hlntv.com/video/2012/06/28/cops-new-info-emerges-search-carnel

Not that I like her (NG), but this is a good phone call w/ mom.

ETA - Mom talks about house being "clean" and AB stating he was cleaning...

Carnel was watching "Adventure Time"...a cartoon when he was last seen by his mother.

Bumping this video

Note; this video interview took place before Carnel was found, but has many details.

 

[Jacie Estes]

After hearing the charge against AB as it stands now, my instincts tell me that the details of Carnel's death will be horrific. The action's of AB toward Carnel prove him to be a violent person, I have to believe, from my own personal experience, that he was violent toward Jaimee, as well.

 

[katydid23]

Not a disservice at all, abuse is not just physical, it can be emotional, as well. I do think that there is a Stockholm Syndrome scenario here. The incident that spurred the recognition of SS occurred over a 5 day period, Jaimee was with this guy enough of a time period to have SS a possibility. He was clearly controlling and she followed along, this does not make her mother of the year but I believe the circumstances are such that she could not react the way that others would or the way others wish she had reacted. It is not as much about the seeing as it is the processing of the actions of AB. No matter how much she may have been warned by anyone in the periphery, if she wasn't processing the information appropriately those warnings wouldn't matter.

All of this is, of course, just my opinion. Until I read that she was not affected, did not have a diminished capacity, because of her experience in the relationship then I won't judge her. You have to see the effects of abuse on someone who has been abused, in any form, to understand her functioning level. IMHO

She is a woman who has lost a child, I have sympathy and compassion for her.

Stockholm syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have seen the effects of sexual and physical and emotional abuse first hand. My abuser-rapist was also my 'babysitter.' There were people who ignored the signs of my abuse and it was very devastating.

I sacrificed myself for a couple of years to protect my little brother. I was very afraid of my uncle, but I did not throw my younger loved ones to the wolves.

I saw no reports showing that she was battered by this monster. Quite the opposite. She agreed with his corporal punishment techniques, even said so herself on national television. I have very little sympathy for her because she was not 'trapped' by this felon. She has a lot of family and friends who had warned her and who would have helped her if she asked for it.

I am not going to continue to give a pass to mothers who allow violent felons to move in and take over the babysitting duties. My compassion and sympathy is going to Carnel, not his mom. :rose:

 

[katydid23]

After hearing the charge against AB as it stands now, my instincts tell me that the details of Carnel's death will be horrific. The action's of AB toward Carnel prove him to be a violent person, I have to believe, from my own personal experience, that he was violent toward Jaimee, as well.

All the more reason that she should not have left her baby alone with him every night. JMO

 

[Cubby]

Hey Cubby I finally played the first video (the one with cc pic). Mr. Gardner is interviewed. About halfway thru the video, he states that the crew noticied a strange smell coming from the chimney...he motioned with his hand and said you can see it right over there.


I'm parphrasing (sp) as I'm typing with one hand while my 6 yr old grandson is sleeping next to me.

thank you. If you, or someone can, please post the time at which Mr. Gardner mentions the chimney. Thanks!

My not so little one, he's still young, 9 but he's been at or above the 100th percentile since birth, will be home in the am from grandma's. I miss him and can't wait to give him a huge hug!

 

[Jacie Estes]

Everyone keeps questioning whether or not she was abused...

He murdered a 4 year old.
He killed serveral dogs and cats...one even being set on fire.
He has a restraining order against him because he abused his ex girlfriend and threatened to murder her dad if she left him.
He stabbed his sister and treatened to stab another peer.

Of course he abused her! I agree with the person who posted about stolk Holmes syndrome. She may have at the time believed AB that doing these things would make him a man. NOT saying that is okay but it certainly doesn't hold her responsible. She lost her beautiful baby boy. She is 21. Have some heart people. Not everything is black and white here.

I absolutely believe she was abused. I've been in her shoes, different state and different rez but the violence was the same. There are still times, 5 years later, when I shudder thinking about having a gun barrel touching the bridge of my nose and I didn't even flinch, I just stared him down. I was afraid if I reacted he would pull the trigger.

Do you know if AB used drugs or had FAS problems? Thanks

 

[kimlynn]

Everyone keeps questioning whether or not she was abused...

He murdered a 4 year old.
He killed serveral dogs and cats...one even being set on fire.
He has a restraining order against him because he abused his ex girlfriend and threatened to murder her dad if she left him.
He stabbed his sister and treatened to stab another peer.

Of course he abused her! I agree with the person who posted about stolk Holmes syndrome. She may have at the time believed AB that doing these things would make him a man. NOT saying that is okay but it certainly doesn't hold her responsible. She lost her beautiful baby boy. She is 21. Have some heart people. Not everything is black and white here.

While I agree that rarely is anything just black or white,not much can justify leaving a 4 yr old alone with the above described abuser.
Sorry for her loss,but more sorry for Carnel as he had no say in the matter.

IMO

 

[katydid23]

Everyone keeps questioning whether or not she was abused...

He murdered a 4 year old.
He killed serveral dogs and cats...one even being set on fire.
He has a restraining order against him because he abused his ex girlfriend and threatened to murder her dad if she left him.
He stabbed his sister and treatened to stab another peer.

Of course he abused her! I agree with the person who posted about stolk Holmes syndrome. She may have at the time believed AB that doing these things would make him a man. NOT saying that is okay but it certainly doesn't hold her responsible. She lost her beautiful baby boy. She is 21. Have some heart people. Not everything is black and white here.

I DO have a heart, and it bleeds for her baby boy. All of these things that you listed, these horrible things he had done. When did she know those things? I bet she knew about them back many months ago.

If she had put her baby in a cage with three fighting pit bulls, or with a 6 foot boa constrictor, would she be held accountable?

Even if she had been abused by him, does that make it okay for her to make him the babysitter?

 

[katydid23]

I absolutely believe she was abused. I've been in her shoes, different state and different rez but the violence was the same. There are still times, 5 years later, when I shudder thinking about having a gun barrel touching the bridge of my nose and I didn't even flinch, I just stared him down. I was afraid if I reacted he would pull the trigger.

Do you know if AB used drugs or had FAS problems? Thanks

Did you ever let that abuser become the full time care giver for your toddler?

 

[Cubby]

I absolutely believe she was abused. I've been in her shoes, different state and different rez but the violence was the same. There are still times, 5 years later, when I shudder thinking about having a gun barrel touching the bridge of my nose and I didn't even flinch, I just stared him down. I was afraid if I reacted he would pull the trigger.

Do you know if AB used drugs or had FAS problems? Thanks

IDK if AB suffered any possible FAS. We saw a picture at moms fb page that led us to believe he or they smoked weed.

Thank you for sharing your story, Jacie. I'm so glad you survived and are here to share it. I appreciate very much your insight into DV, as well as your insight into things Native American.

 

[Jacie Estes]

All the more reason that she should not have left her baby alone with him every night. JMO

I can not explain it any clearer here; one person's comprehension is different than another's. I am looking at this as someone who is at a distance, who knows no one involved in the situation, is using detachment to view the situation and has the training to understand all of the factors of abuse.

 

[Mimiof8]

thank you. If you, or someone can, please post the time at which Mr. Gardner mentions the chimney. Thanks!

My not so little one, he's still young, 9 but he's been at or above the 100th percentile since birth, will be home in the am from grandma's. I miss him and can't wait to give him a huge hug!

Mr Gardner mentions the chimney at 1:04 in the video.
http://www.abc12.com/story/18915753...s-into-death-of-4-year-old-carnel-chamberlain

I think cases like this make us love our kids even more. My youngest is 13 usually asks whose missing when I pour on the hugs and kisses, lol.

 

[Mimiof8]

Going to sleep now. I can't handle all the dv talk when we have no proof jc was a victim and nothing in msm to suggest she was. Jmo but without a link to support this dv discussion I question whether it should be allowed as it is only a rumor and ws doesnt allow rumors.

 

[katydid23]

I can not explain it any clearer here; one person's comprehension is different than another's. I am looking at this as someone who is at a distance, who knows no one involved in the situation, is using detachment to view the situation and has the training to understand all of the factors of abuse.

I do not think it is a matter of comprehension. I fully comprehend your position. As you say, you are trained as a advocate for victims of domestic violence. So from your POV she should be seen as a victim and should have no responsibility for the outcome.

But I am not trained as an advocate for battered victims. However I did work in the public school system for 20 years, primarily with 'At Risk' kids. So I do have some understanding of young single mothers.

And I was living a young life similar to Carnel's, and still remember the fear and utter terror that my 'babysitter' brought into our home. So my sympathy lies with him, Bless His Soul.

And it is not a matter of 'comprehension' imo. It is a matter of personal stance and life experience. We are all allowed to have our own and to express them, without being accused of having a lack of comprehension. JMO