GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #1

[EXIA15145]

PMLsmom and

Your not kidding!

What a sweetheart!


JMO

Both of you, the article in #162 is not about the bf. It's about a male relative, some say the brother. Not the bf. Bf may not be any better, but it helps for future reference if the material posted is accurate.

Everyone's doing all this talking. I already know the bf is only 20 yrs old, but how old is the mom?

 

[BritsKate]

There might be medical records that could be used in court if that becomes necessary.

Where are the family and friends mentioning her bruises and blackened eyes? Where are her broken bones and bald spots? Her scars and missing teeth? If AB was leaving obvious bruises on Carnel, he would do the same to Jaimee if he was beating up on her as well. His MO seemed to be a loss of control....not a methodical terrorization.

Not one person has made the claim that AB was abusing Jaimee. And I still do not think it excuses what happened to Carnel even if it turns out that AB was abusive to both mother and child.

While I completely and totally agree with the bolded portion just to play devil's advocate most women in an abusive relationship, physical or otherwise, hide their abuse from everyone. I hid mine from my mom who was my best friend and never would have judged me...but I was ashamed, embarrassed and humiliated. Even physical abuse is rarely so overt - abusers are very good at what they do. They know how to appear to be the good guy, keep their abuse covert, and terrorize their victim into silence.

Many abused women will only leave their abuser if he begins to target the children involved. Some don't though. And those that don't, I agree, do need to be held responsible for that decision. JMO

 

[EXIA15145]

We're not sure about the bf's job yet,workin on it.
And WELCOME!

BTW: Your avatar is freakin me out..

That avatar freaked me out, too. I hid it. If enough of us say that, do you think they'll change the avatar?

 

[Cubby]

BBM...

I don't agree with that assessment. Her relatives warned her about him. She had plenty of information. And AB was worried enough about her reaction to seeing her child's beaten and bruised face that he sought assurance of her feelings for him first. That is a very revealing piece of information. If she was that unaware of what constituted abuse, he would've had no reason to worry about what he'd done to Carnel, and how she was going to take it.

I disagree. AB's worrying has nothing to do with JC's awareness. AB's worrying has to do with his own awareness and his own understanding what he did was wrong.

If all these relatives warned her, why didn't any of them report this to CPS or whichever agency in their area handles child protective services? I don't believe anyone was aware AB was capable of killing a 4 year old.

Right now I simply do not have enough information to categorize JC in the same manner I do Stephanie Sloop.

JC is cooperating with police, she is providing information. I simply do not see how punishing her for cooperating is going to help not only justice in this case, but help to ensure this does not happen to other children. In this case, I see punishing JC as nothing more than a set back for young mothers and their children who are victims of domestic violence.

Now, if someone shows me evidence that mom left for work knowing her son was, say in the same condition as Ethan Stacy needing immediate medical attention, which she failed to get him, I have the right to change my mind. Something tells me, Carnel was not in desperate need of medical attention when mom left for work Thursday June 21st.

 

[mommame]

After following this thread since the beginning..........well just some thoughts. It is usually always the easy route to place blame on the easiest source..in this case The MOM.......I guess I am in the minor leauge here because I don't see her at fault of this crime at all......Yes, she did see abuse to him prior to this, yes she still left him with the guy again.........HOWEVER......While I am not a person of that nationality nor ever lived on a rez...........I have heard many many stories about these places and people. It is always easy to point fingers and say "well she should have.da da da" Thats easy for YOU to say! You have not lived her life nor been in her shoes.......ever! This rez is not a top notch place for these people to live.....some very nice places and obvious that the people care about their place but alot of homes are just there with no care...........junk all over and it just looks like no one cares at all. And I am NOT complaining about this rez, simply saying this about the residents not the rez it self. A lot of these people know no other life then what they have been given. Wheather that life includes alcohol, abuse, poverty, ect......thats just the way it is and it seems that it is accepted and lived in that way to the best of their ability.....without help! usually anyway! This young girl (imo) seems to have been brought up exactly like this.........this "guy" was probably a dream come true for her.he loved her!! I could never imagine any one actually killing my child......I'm sure in her imature mind.she couldn't either.IMO He had convinced her he was "helping" her son to grow up and accept responsibility..........I don't ever for a minute (untill it shows up as proof) that she ever ever thought any real harm would ever come to her son. I think he had convinced her to leave the little boy home with him, he would babysit, he loved her.he loved her son. She would work, he would take care of home ......

Of course I am also like most of you and do not know any of these people and all of this is just my opinion......but I for one won't judge her without knowing first hand what her situation was.

 

[Cubby]

SmoothOperator. You linked the wrong person. The perp in this case's last name is spelled Bennett. The FB you linked is an entirely different spelling.

Here is the FB link to the AB charged with assaulting Carnel:

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001975755235&sk=wall#!/anthony.m.bennett.5

 

[HeinekenMan]

Well, it's time for me to speak up. I am very upset that Carnel was placed in this terrible situation, but it's also quite clear that very few people understand an abuser and the physical, emotional and psychological hold they place over their victims. Some people also do not understanding what domestic violence is. So let me shed some light.

1. Domestic violence takes many forms. It can be physical violence. But it also can be the THREAT of physical violence. Therefore, a person doesn't need to have broken teeth and bruises to be a victim of domestic violence.

2. In many cases, an abuser will make it know that the other person's life is in danger if the person doesn't do certain things. Victims are often so scared that they fear they will be killed for picking up a phone to call police. If they do call police, they believe the abuser will get out of jail and find and kill them. Sometimes, the abusers even state this. The sames goes for victims who try to leave abusers.

3. Victims often feel like prisoners in their own homes. Abusers often keep victims away from family and friends.

4. Abusers often use financial circumstances to force victims to stay in a relationship. Note that Carnel's mother just started working. It's possible that she was preparing to save up some money so that she didn't have to depend on her abusive boyfriend.

5. Abusers almost always say that they are sorry and that it will never happen again. While it seems like victims would not believe this and would not give the abuser another chance, it happens over and over and over. Some people go years as victims in an abusive domestic relationship.

Just because you do not understand something does not mean that it's not reality. There are people around here who have experienced all sorts of personal and professional horrors. Trust that they know what they're talking about.

Now, there are certainly many people who never would have allowed this sort of abuse to continue. But the truth is that many of those people never would have been in this situation in the first place. Many factors, including poor judgment, put Carnel in harm's way. People with sound judgment probably wouldn't have been in this situation. But having poor judgment doesn't change the fact that Carnel's mother is a victim and is not responsible for what happened to her son.

 

[~n/t~]

The best analogy was made on this thread. Sorry I don't recall who posted it but it was right on.

Would you leave your 4 year old with a vicious pitbull? If the pitbull attacked not once but 3 times, would you continue to subject your child to the same attacks over and over until it was too late?

I don't want to blame mom. I really don't because like many of you have posted we don't know what her life was like but at the same time, I can't turn a blind eye and ignore the facts.

The facts are little Carnel was abused over and over with some serious injuries and nobody did anything to protect this child. Not even his own mom. I think it's very sad that we allow this type of behaviour to continue.

 

[HeinekenMan]

The best analogy was made on this thread. Sorry I don't recall who posted it but it was right on.

Would you leave your 4 year old with a vicious pitbull? If the pitbull attacked not once but 3 times, would you continue to subject your child to the same attacks over and over until it was too late?

That's not a good analogy at all. There is a huge difference between a dog and a person who can kick in the door at 1 a.m. and stab you before you and your son can make it out the back door.

 

[~n/t~]

That's not a good analogy at all. There is a huge difference between a dog and a person who can kick in the door at 1 a.m. and stab you before you and your son can make it out the back door.

Again, not knowing her situation, I can only speculate what's already been said in the media. I find it hard to believe that she wouldn't have had an opportunity (after the initial attack) on her son to go seek help from relatives.

IIRC, her great aunt lived only a few houses away. What I'd like to know is what was told to those who saw this child's bruises? How were they explained away to family, friends, neighbours? The boy fell off the swing?

 

[~n/t~]

If this is not life threatening, I don't know what is, imo Gosh, even poor little Carnel told his mom about the abuse. Did she take him to a doctor when she noticed the bruise on the boy's ribcage? He could've had a broken rib cage. What about the swollen face? I guess not.

The affidavit said she had told the agent that Bennett, who lived with her on the Saginaw Chippewa Indian Tribe reservation, asked her to tell him that she loved him. She said she then found her son in a bedroom with a bruised and swollen face and a cut on the inside of his lip, the affidavit said.

A few days later, she told the agent, she spotted a 6- to 8-inch bruise on the boy's ribcage and said Bennett had told her she backhanded Carnel.

The boy told his mother Bennett had punched him, the affidavit said.
Another assault allegedly took place a few days later, Chamberlain told the
agent, when she saw Bennett pick up Carnel by his neck, drop him and drag him by his right foot to his bedroom, bruising the child's buttocks.


Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2012...been-abused/UPI-58641341003670/#ixzz1zNW24Ynp

 

[pianokiller]

I truly believe that unless someone has lived on the rez, they don't know the conditions there. SOME parts of the rez [any rez] are as bad as, if not worse than, innercity when it comes to crime.

As someone who has been at that reservation there is NOT a crime problem. The Saginaw Chippewas keep a clean reservation. They own most of Mt. Pleasant including Central Michigan University and are vigilant when it comes to crime. In fact, when Wal-Mart moved into a bigger building and abandoned the old building the Tribe threatened them with a lawsuit because it was an eyesore and forced Wal-Mart to find a buyer for the property.

The reservation runs a very tight ship. AB slipped through the cracks, there's a bad apple in every bunch although that's an understatement when applied to him.

And JC's cousin was the former chief, he stepped down to be the police chief as far as I know from my personal experience in Mt. Pleasant.

 

[HeinekenMan]

If this is not life threatening, I don't know what is, imo Gosh, even poor little Carnel told his mom about the abuse. Did she take him to a doctor when she noticed the bruise on the boy's ribcage? He could've had a broken rib cage. What about the swollen face? I guess not.

What if he told her he'd kill them both if they tried to take him to see a doctor? What if he held a knife to her throat? What if he threatened to burn down their house? My father threatened to kill my mom many times. In fact, he kidnapped me and my mother at gunpoint once. Do you think my mom went with my dad because she didn't care about me?

 

[~n/t~]

What if he told her he'd kill them both if they tried to take him to see a doctor? What if he held a knife to her throat? What if he threatened to burn down their house? My father threatened to kill my mom many times. In fact, he kidnapped me and my mother at gunpoint once. Do you think my mom went with my dad because she didn't care about me?

She did not say any of that in the police reports nor on Nancy Grace. She had no reason to not reveal everything considering he was already behind bars at that point. So, imo, she was never threatened. As a matter of fact, she said in one of the abuse occurances , he asked her to tell him she loved him before leading her to the bedroom where little Carnel was bruised and swollen on the face.

 

[Jacie Estes]

JE I have seen your posts in other threads and have nothing but respect for you and what you have been through {hugs}.

I want to have compassion for JC, but with every new detail revealed, I struggle with an impulse to judge her. I'm angry that Carnel, who was completely without a say in the choice of Mommy's new live-in, suffered because that person could not control himself. Even sadder that her need to "be loved" trumped protecting her son.

Can you imagine how Carnel felt? What did he think when he told her AB hurt him. What was Jaimee's reply to him? What were his thoughts, when AB grabbed him by the neck and dragged him to his room and Mommy did not stop him? Just imagining those scenarios and how he must have felt breaks my heart.

I don't know that I agree Jaimee herself suffered abuse at the hands of AB. I think I'm going to need proof of that first.

Thank you Knox.

I have seen the results of those scenarios, I was one, at one time. In the gun incident, at that moment I believed that if I moved/reacted, he would react and pull the trigger. I gambled and it paid off, I didn't have my head blown off. My tool set at that moment was to stay still, IF that were evr to happen to me again, would I react the same? I don't know and I won't have to find out, he is gone, out of my life for 5 years now. I have to refer, again, to StockHolm Syndrome; sometimes the fear and numbness is so overwhelming that it is difficult to escape. I completely understand that it is difficult to understand a domestic or intimate violence situation, looking in from the outside.

I can use the analogy of someone who is color blind, there is only the capability of seeing certain colors of the spectrum; this is a disorder of a physical nature. Then there are those, in dv/iv situations, who are not capable of discerning between abuse and what is normal. There is a fright or flight reaction, some don't have the ability to engage flight, they have become inured to any consequence of violence. This is disorder of an emotion nature.

The Cycle of Violence is overwhelming for some.

http://www.mchenrycountyturningpoint.org/images/powewheel1.gif


If you are in danger, please use a safer computer, or call 911, your local hotline, or the U.S. National Domestic Violence Hotline at 1-800-799-7233 and TTY 1-800-787-3224.

 

[Jacie Estes]

As someone who has been at that reservation there is NOT a crime problem. The Saginaw Chippewas keep a clean reservation. They own most of Mt. Pleasant including Central Michigan University and are vigilant when it comes to crime. In fact, when Wal-Mart moved into a bigger building and abandoned the old building the Tribe threatened them with a lawsuit because it was an eyesore and forced Wal-Mart to find a buyer for the property.

The reservation runs a very tight ship. AB slipped through the cracks, there's a bad apple in every bunch although that's an understatement when applied to him.

And JC's cousin was the former chief, he stepped down to be the police chief as far as I know from my personal experience in Mt. Pleasant.

I clarified that there are SOME parts, sometimes it is just BIA housing areas and the problems are drug related. Where I am from in Oklahoma, I don't see the conditions I see in Montana, South Dakota or elsewhere.

As for AB, I am interested in his incidence of drug/alcohol use or if he is FAS.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Well, it's time for me to speak up. I am very upset that Carnel was placed in this terrible situation, but it's also quite clear that very few people understand an abuser and the physical, emotional and psychological hold they place over their victims. Some people also do not understanding what domestic violence is. So let me shed some light.

1. Domestic violence takes many forms. It can be physical violence. But it also can be the THREAT of physical violence. Therefore, a person doesn't need to have broken teeth and bruises to be a victim of domestic violence.

2. In many cases, an abuser will make it know that the other person's life is in danger if the person doesn't do certain things. Victims are often so scared that they fear they will be killed for picking up a phone to call police. If they do call police, they believe the abuser will get out of jail and find and kill them. Sometimes, the abusers even state this. The sames goes for victims who try to leave abusers.

3. Victims often feel like prisoners in their own homes. Abusers often keep victims away from family and friends.

4. Abusers often use financial circumstances to force victims to stay in a relationship. Note that Carnel's mother just started working. It's possible that she was preparing to save up some money so that she didn't have to depend on her abusive boyfriend.

5. Abusers almost always say that they are sorry and that it will never happen again. While it seems like victims would not believe this and would not give the abuser another chance, it happens over and over and over. Some people go years as victims in an abusive domestic relationship.

Just because you do not understand something does not mean that it's not reality. There are people around here who have experienced all sorts of personal and professional horrors. Trust that they know what they're talking about.

Now, there are certainly many people who never would have allowed this sort of abuse to continue. But the truth is that many of those people never would have been in this situation in the first place. Many factors, including poor judgment, put Carnel in harm's way. People with sound judgment probably wouldn't have been in this situation. But having poor judgment doesn't change the fact that Carnel's mother is a victim and is not responsible for what happened to her son.

:goodpost:

Thank you for an excellent post.

 

[pianokiller]

I clarified that there are SOME parts, sometimes it is just BIA housing areas and the problems are drug related. Where I am from in Oklahoma, I don't see the conditions I see in Montana, South Dakota or elsewhere.

As for AB, I am interested in his incidence of drug/alcohol use or if he is FAS.

Oh, I know, I was just clarifying. I know quite a few people have an idea of a reservation miles in the middle of nowhere with gambling and rampant alcohol and drug use. I just wanted to try to paint a picture for people who have never been to Mt. Pleasant where this little boy was.

 

[Amster]

The best analogy was made on this thread. Sorry I don't recall who posted it but it was right on.

Would you leave your 4 year old with a vicious pitbull? If the pitbull attacked not once but 3 times, would you continue to subject your child to the same attacks over and over until it was too late?

I don't want to blame mom. I really don't because like many of you have posted we don't know what her life was like but at the same time, I can't turn a blind eye and ignore the facts.

The facts are little Carnel was abused over and over with some serious injuries and nobody did anything to protect this child. Not even his own mom. I think it's very sad that we allow this type of behaviour to continue.

It will continue as long as there are people who defend it. The abuser, and probable killer, was enabled by Carnels mother. Carnel was and is the victim. The ultimate victim.

 

[katydid23]

Well, it's time for me to speak up. I am very upset that Carnel was placed in this terrible situation, but it's also quite clear that very few people understand an abuser and the physical, emotional and psychological hold they place over their victims. Some people also do not understanding what domestic violence is. So let me shed some light.

1. Domestic violence takes many forms. It can be physical violence. But it also can be the THREAT of physical violence. Therefore, a person doesn't need to have broken teeth and bruises to be a victim of domestic violence.

2. In many cases, an abuser will make it know that the other person's life is in danger if the person doesn't do certain things. Victims are often so scared that they fear they will be killed for picking up a phone to call police. If they do call police, they believe the abuser will get out of jail and find and kill them. Sometimes, the abusers even state this. The sames goes for victims who try to leave abusers.

3. Victims often feel like prisoners in their own homes. Abusers often keep victims away from family and friends.

4. Abusers often use financial circumstances to force victims to stay in a relationship. Note that Carnel's mother just started working. It's possible that she was preparing to save up some money so that she didn't have to depend on her abusive boyfriend.

5. Abusers almost always say that they are sorry and that it will never happen again. While it seems like victims would not believe this and would not give the abuser another chance, it happens over and over and over. Some people go years as victims in an abusive domestic relationship.

Just because you do not understand something does not mean that it's not reality. There are people around here who have experienced all sorts of personal and professional horrors. Trust that they know what they're talking about.

Now, there are certainly many people who never would have allowed this sort of abuse to continue. But the truth is that many of those people never would have been in this situation in the first place. Many factors, including poor judgment, put Carnel in harm's way. People with sound judgment probably wouldn't have been in this situation. But having poor judgment doesn't change the fact that Carnel's mother is a victim and is not responsible for what happened to her son.

Is there any evidence that the mom was a victim of Domestic Violence?

Imo, 'poor judgment' consists of feeding a kid soda out of a bottle for breakfast, or taking a 4 yr old to an R rated movie.

Watching your felon live in boyfriend pick up your 4 yr old by wrapping his hand the the baby's neck, and then letting him drop to the floor, and doing nothing in response----that is not poor judgment, imo.

I am sorry to sound so harsh and judgmental, and I am sure mom is devastated. But imo, she made some very poor choices, by ignoring the child abuse that she saw with her own eyes.