CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #15

[scadder21]

Madeleine- I thought that the cop's didn't comment on if all her parts were in the bag. Where do you get that not all of her was in the bag?

 

[matou]

Isn't the street where the bag was found bordering a nearby isolated area? He would be able to get on the country road immediately after dropping off the bag. I'm guessing it would take 5-10 minutes to drive between the bag location and the body location. If he drove east on the arvada open space road, his vehicle would be parked on the oncoming traffic side to dump the body, which would be akward and more noticable if his front lights were on. I think he drove westbound on that road and had his vehicle on the shoulder facing the proper way, on the north shoulder. So I'm thinking he dropped off the bag and then drove south to the place were the body would be found. JMO

 

[izzyblizzy]

That's a very common problem in rural-ish areas outside of urban or thickly settled suburban areas. A certain kind of urban resident seems to think that it doesn't matter whether they dump their old paint rags, refrigerators and TVs, litters of unwanted kittens, half-used propane tanks etc. etc. etc. beside the road.

I have definitely seen that behaviour some places, but this is an Open space. I agree beer cans etc. might be thrown out, but there aren't usually trash bags along the road, unless it was a "trash mash" weekend and volunteers were putting the bags along the side of the road. (which I have heard nothing about).

I do think the Denver Post article today noted they saw the trash bag and found it unusually heavy. I don't think it is normal to just see things like refrigerators, trash bags, etc. along the road there. JMO and all that.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Normally, crimes like this are a crime of opportunity as opposed to planned and calculated, taunting.
In this case it seems like this perp did plan, possibly stalk, know where he was gonna leave evidence in advance. It seems crazy to think this but I am wondering if he went so far as to plan to use symbolism, dates, leave evidence 6 miles from abduction, the triangle of a pentagram...seems like an over plotted mystery novel....but it might be the case.
What degree do y'all think this perp planned?

I think this is heavily planned.

So do LE (non-random).

I think the placement of the remains are intentional, ditto the backpack.

I think this guy is getting off on watching the upset he has caused, will try to insert himself into the investigation, contact LE somehow, the works.

He thinks he's the next BTK.

He chose a beautiful, innocent, gentle little girl for maximum shock value...ditto the dismemberment.

I can only hope and pray that she went quickly and had absolutely no idea what had hit her.

I fear that she didn't...this guy is "getting at" LE in particular and Westminster as a whole.

I agree that he has some connection to the town, possibly as a teenager.

It is all planned, including leaving the cross.

My opinion only of course. May change anytime when other info is made available.

:cow:

 

[Madeleine74]

Madeleine- I thought that the cop's didn't comment on if all her parts were in the bag. Where do you get that not all of her was in the bag?

As I said in my post: from the Denver Post article that was published this morning and linked to by several folks during the day.

 

[carbuff]

I have definitely seen that behaviour some places, but this is an Open space. I agree beer cans etc. might be thrown out, but there aren't usually trash bags along the road, unless it was a "trash mash" weekend and volunteers were putting the bags along the side of the road. (which I have heard nothing about).

I do think the Denver Post article today noted they saw the trash bag and found it unusually heavy. I don't think it is normal to just see things like refrigerators, trash bags, etc. along the road there. JMO and all that.

Thank you. That's useful to know.

 

[passionflower]

Just watching the devils weed,on maryjane legal in CO medically.
It is on TV now. Highest state allowing it sold. Rocky Mountain high.
Ok,do we think this freak is smoking? On drugs?

 

[SapphireSteel]

They were not 'dumbed out in the open'. According to a denver paper update last night, the remains were found in a bag. Scroll back to the other thread for the link.

The bag with the remains was dumped out in the open.

If you look at photographs of the scene, it is actually entirely empty.

Desolate, no undergrowth, one dead tree, that is all, as far as the eye can see.

A black bag dumped here would stick out like a pimple on a pumpkin...and it did, it was found.

 

[Londonrraine]

O/T ****ANOTHER MISSING GIRL!!!****
If anyone has time, please share info and add input, whatever you can do it appreciated!

http://www.nj.com/gloucester-county/index.ssf/2012/10/clayton_girl_12-year-old_autum.html
Thank you!!!

 

[Foxfire]

I think they should check to see if anyone owns a blue sedan and a white van. And they need to be following up on anyone selling a blue sedan or a white van recently, or burning one and filing an insurance claim. ) Of course, I bet LE is already doing those things.

sayd, those DWVs(damn white Vans) seem to be the vehicle of choice for sexual predators/serial killers all over the US...

KIDNAPPING ATTEMPT - Kenova , Wayne County , West Virginia
State Police Investigating Attempted Kidnapping At Elementary School
http://www.wchstv.com/newsroom/eyewitness/120320_8722.shtml

They tell us the teenager was walking to practice when she reached the doors to the gym she noticed a white van parked out back.
She turned to go inside when she heard gravel start to fly and saw the man rushing towards her.

The teenager tells us she took off running. She says the man got back into his van and drove after her.
_________________________________________

http://www.wsaz.com/home/headlines/...nnected_to_Attempted_Abduction_144430195.html

DEVELOPING STORY: As Many as 10 Abduction Attempts Being Investigated


UPDATE 4/6/12

Some of those involve a suspect driving a white box-style van.
Deputies say that same suspect is believed to be involved in many of the cases.

 

[Jules71]

If we assume she walked straight to the friend's house, then she disappeared within those first five minutes, because she would have gotten there already had it been later. Otherwise, we have to think she took some kind of detour or changed her plans about going to his house and went to school instead. It seems most likely that she would have gone to his house, though, since she called to confirm that she intended to walk with him. JMO


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But the plan according to her mom was she would meet friends at the park and walk together to school. Walking to J's house would be way out of her way. J walking to Chelsea park would be out of his way. It has never made sense that J's dad said they waited for her. Unless J's dad drove him to the park and they waited there for her. But then why not just drive them to school if you are going to do that? Or why not drive him to Jessica's since it is so close to the park?

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[thess]

The creepiness of the site (dead tree, abandoned mine, etc) makes me think it was not the perp hoping for easy disposal. Bag or no, I believe it was staged.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Just watching the devils weed,on maryjane legal in CO medically.
It is on TV now. Highest state allowing it sold. Rocky Mountain high.
Ok,do we think this freak is smoking? On drugs?

Oh please, don't start bashing marijuana.

There has never been any relationship between violence and marijuana, nor is there likely to be.

Drugs, absolutely...but not weed.

Personally I have noticed meth seems to be involved in most violent deaths these days.

 

[Madeleine74]

There is no way this perp could have known the exact sequence of events that particular morning. He couldn't have known exactly what JR would do because the weather had changed. He couldn't have known the boy's father would only wait until 8:40am and then drive his son to school (and not check on why JR didn't make it to their house to meet); he got lucky. Opportunity and luck play into these abductions.

He may have had a plan to abduct a female child, he may have seen JR before and decided he'd like to abduct her if possible, or it may have been more random. He probably had a fantasy of abducting someone and then doing whatever else it was he did. We don't know which parts he improvised on the spot. We don't know what went according to his fantasy or plan and what didn't.

I personally think he discarded the remains in a way that he determined was easiest or best for him at that time. Why didn't he go to a dumpster? I don't know. He didn't. He tossed a black garbage bag out and no one saw him do that, he didn't carefully arrange her in the open. She was inside the bag when found by the trash collectors. It was the animal maintenance people who actually first saw her remains inside the bag. (source: Denver Post).

 

[cluciano63]

The creepiness of the site (dead tree, abandoned mine, etc) makes me think it was not the perp hoping for easy disposal. Bag or no, I believe it was staged.

I don't know...I sure would not open a trash bag, probably a lot of people wouldn't. It is lucky that this one was opened, IMO.

 

[alwaysonmymind]

Just watching the devils weed,on maryjane legal in CO medically.
It is on TV now. Highest state allowing it sold. Rocky Mountain high.
Ok,do we think this freak is smoking? On drugs?

Weed makes most folks very ~mellow~

 

[Etilema]

We now know the remains were not openly displayed or arranged in some kind of pattern as had previously been assumed. They were inside of a dark garbage bag and were found near the culvert.

The article in the Denver Post today that revealed this information also revealed that parts of JR were missing. They didn't say what was missing or if those parts were found or where they were found if they were found, but it wasn't just that she was not intact, she wasn't all there at the time they made the discovery.

So that's 2 pieces of information that were not known before.

I did not see anywhere in the Denver Post article that it said that parts were missing.


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[K.jill]

The bag with the remains was dumped out in the open.

If you look at photographs of the scene, it is actually entirely empty.

Desolate, no undergrowth, one dead tree, that is all, as far as the eye can see.

A black bag dumped here would stick out like a pimple on a pumpkin...and it did, it was found.

I was wondering about this. The contents of the bag...we're out of the bag in the pics we saw (helicopter). Ivan not imagine le would empty the bag for pics. Maybe the garbage men emptied the bag? But the remains did not appear that way, iirc they were spaced out a bit?

 

[otto]

As far as I know, nothing has been "recanted".

Posters seem to think that "predator" translates into "random".

It doesn't...not quite sure why this belief is out there.

Predator = describes perp.
Non-random = describes victim.

:cow:

"There are some similarities between the investigation into Jessica Ridgeway's murder and Washington, D.C.'s infamous serial sniper case a decade ago.

Just like the Ridgeway investigation, serial sniper investigators had few clues initially on who was behind a string of random shootings that left 10 people dead.

Michael Bouchard, a former agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, helped lead the sniper investigation.

"These kinds of cases are one tip away from being solved," Bouchard told 7NEWS.

http://www.wptv.com/dpp/news/nation...en-ridgeway-and-dc-sniper-cases#ixzz29yw2qSTz

As a mother of four children ranging in age from 7 to 11, Booth says it is natural for parents to focus on the threat of random acts by strangers.

“As a mother and as a prosecutor, I’ve thought about it,” she says. “And even though I know all the statistics, I’m still on my high alert. My kids walk two and a half blocks to school. And I have the same concerns as any other mother and father out there. … I have to talk with all four of them about the strangers, but make sure I also, in conjunction with that, talk about other personal safety things and body safety.”

http://www.boulderweekly.com/articl...y-local-law-enforcement-reacts-to-murder.html

 

[thess]

I don't know...I sure would not open a trash bag, probably a lot of people wouldn't. It is lucky that this one was opened, IMO.

I think we're in "agree to disagree" territory on this, but my sense of the bag has always been that he was flaunting the fact that he had treated her as an object / "garbage".

(Garbage handling was also their job, they probably have a sense for when something is weird. I don't believe there is any chance those remains would not have been found. Right next to road.)

Stopping now so as to exit the circular debate.