CO - Jessica Ridgeway, 10, Westminster, 5 Oct 2012 - #15

[Jules71]

It's been said that she left at 8:25, and no I don't have a link... several MSM articles have said it. Even if she had left at 8:30, it could have been minutes rather than seconds.

Just jumping off your post. Yes. On the scanner thread it was stated she left home at 8:25. J's dad said they waited for her and when she didn't show he drove J to school at 8:40. But we don't know that she didn't walk somewhere else (like the rec center) and then disappear from there... even sometime after 8:40.

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[TreeClimbingGirl]

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/partners/index.html

Not all are male/female abductors...wanted to share this link as a general resource for criminals who work as a team or pair.

Thanks for the link! There are a shocking number of male-female team killers. The worst one I've read about is Judith and Alan Neeley:

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/notorious_murders/women/neelley/1.html

 

[izzyblizzy]

So much rests on information we just don't know, but on the surface it would seem we have two different personalities at work on this crime.

The reason I say that is essentially, the non-intactness of her body (is this a word?).

If we go with rumour and statistical likliehood, the remains were dismembered to hide identification.

Why then, would the remains be dumped out in the open, just waiting to be found?

The perp was concerned with hiding the ID, then NOT concerned?

This could well indicate two perps...one organised, the other not so much.

Interesting to note the "white van" attempted abduction at the other school the day earlier allegedly had two passengers.

:waitasec:

I kind of thought the white van was interesting too. That is why I bumped you to the timeline etc. But then again, it wasn't right on her street, neighborhood so may mean nothing.

 

[carbuff]

IIRC a local has said it was quite common for bags of garbage to be left on the side of the road. Not sure on how often they were collected though

:moo:

That's a very common problem in rural-ish areas outside of urban or thickly settled suburban areas. A certain kind of urban resident seems to think that it doesn't matter whether they dump their old paint rags, refrigerators and TVs, litters of unwanted kittens, half-used propane tanks etc. etc. etc. beside the road.

 

[Etilema]

Just jumping off your post. Yes. On the scanner thread it was stated she left home at 8:25. J's dad said they waited for her and when she didn't show he drove J to school at 8:40. But we don't know that she didn't walk somewhere else (like the rec center) and then disappear from there... even sometime after 8:40.

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If we assume she walked straight to the friend's house, then she disappeared within those first five minutes, because she would have gotten there already had it been later. Otherwise, we have to think she took some kind of detour or changed her plans about going to his house and went to school instead. It seems most likely that she would have gone to his house, though, since she called to confirm that she intended to walk with him. JMO


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[K.jill]

Wicked Attraction - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They do pair up sometimes.

I feel that way too. Not sure exactly why, but I do.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Oh and FWIW, I always figured he dumped the body remains first and was headed back home, when he looked over at the seat and went, "oh crap, I forgot to get rid of the backpack; oh, here, I'll pull into this street and dump it here."

If it was left on a main road, I might agree with you.

It was not.

The quickest and easiest way of getting rid of something you don't want is to put it in the garbage.

Many corpses have been disposed of this way, especially of children.

Denis Nilson got rid of 15 fully grown men by flushing them down his toilet.

My point is, there are a million ways to hide a body and evidence.

These were not hidden. There is a reason for that.

 

[alterholic]

Two questions over the last couple of pages:

1) Was it confirmed by LE that this was "non-random"? I mean, is that still the latest news or was that something that was said in the beginning, but was later recanted?

2) If this was planned, and JR had been stalked for several days, I guess my question is motive. It would be notoriously difficult to pull this off on any given day - the walk was a short one, her regular routine included meeting up with friends, and on this day in particular she was meeting a friend with a parent (ie adult) who was also waiting. That leaves very little room for mistakes, and would be very difficult for someone to pull off -- even with planning, you never know when a neighbor might head out to put trash out or get the mail, etc. If you're planning on abducting this kid -- why would you intentionally plan to grab her when you've only got 3/10s of a mile to get her in the car, the whole time being in front of residential homes where anyone could be home/come outside/drive by at any given time?


Off topic of that --
I have been following WebSleuths since earlier in the summer, coming across this in the very beginnings of the Mickey Shunick case. I am so surprised at how many of the rumors and rumblings turned out to be true in the aftermath of that case. It's an awesome testament to the intuitiveness of this "community".

I completely think that we should examine every possibility, as that's how ideas are created - but at the risk of sounding like the type A person that I am IRL, could everyone provide a basis of reasoning when presenting new ideas? I feel like it would lessen the confusion and tension and may help us further our own investigation better. Even if it's, "I feel like blah blah blah... I don't know why, it's just a gut feeling I have based on this and that," I think it would help with things snowballing from a gut feeling post to moderator intervention because we're so off topic. LOL

For example, I don't think the perp lives near where the backpack was found. IIRC, LE monitored traffic in and out of the neighborhood following that discovery. They searched homes in Westminster, I believe they would've searched that entire neighborhood as well -- had he resided there, there should be a suspect. I believe he was at least familiar enough with JR's neighborhood to know any basic details "it's quiet. it's kid friendly. etc etc" but I don't think he would have had JR in his home, dismembering the poor girl, while so much heat hit a street or two over.

This is such a sad case. I really hope LE has a LOT they aren't telling us (similar to the thread I just read over on Mickey Shunick regarding how much evidence LE collected in that case).

:twocents:

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I've been unable to rule out a feeling that either the perp is a woman, or there's a woman working with the perp. No evidence, just a gut queasiness.

I think the perp is male bc le have consistently said "man". I think it's based on a DNA sample.

 

[SailorMoon]

Been busy all weekend, kids and all, so nothing new on the cross or any other developments?? May this week be the week that this sick sob is caught.

 

[CHERIE.T]

I totally agree with you, Meri!

Re: my response - I was just making sure everyone understood we couldn't sleuth every person that gave us the heebie-jeebies and post about it here.

If I were LE I would be digging into all those backgrounds. The difference is, they don't publicly expose the backgrounds of everyone they're investigating. If they rule them out, none of their skeletons are rattling around for the public to know.

Right., the perp could be a construction worker, a cop, a school crossing guard, a banker, a homeless person.
LE at this time just doesn't know. I have a feeling LE is considering all folks that they know or think were in the neighborhood that day.

I don't think the 5 page discussion on random and not random is important. :banghead:
What's important is LE finding the perp. LE can figure out the whys later.
All my opinions

 

[Ransom]

Discussion topic:

For past successful stranger abductions in broad daylight with no witnesses - how did the perp do it? Let's discuss similar cases to this one.

A lot of us are wondering how people could not have noticed, but it's happened before. Perps, and survivors, have given details.

Somer Thompson ... ran ahead of her siblings/friends coming home from school. No one saw anything.

recap of case:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/02/0...omer-thompson-may-avoid-trial-with-plea-deal/

 

[carbuff]

I think the perp is male bc le have consistently said "man". I think it's based on a DNA sample.

True. Good point. Then that would leave perp assisted by woman.

 

[Madeleine74]

We now know the remains were not openly displayed or arranged in some kind of pattern as had previously been assumed. They were inside of a dark garbage bag and were found near the culvert.

The article in the Denver Post today that revealed this information also revealed that parts of JR were missing. They didn't say what was missing or if those parts were found or where they were found if they were found, but it wasn't just that she was not intact, she wasn't all there at the time they made the discovery.

So that's 2 pieces of information that were not known before.

 

[SapphireSteel]

Two questions over the last couple of pages:

1) Was it confirmed by LE that this was "non-random"? I mean, is that still the latest news or was that something that was said in the beginning, but was later recanted?

2) If this was planned, and JR had been stalked for several days, I guess my question is motive. It would be notoriously difficult to pull this off on any given day - the walk was a short one, her regular routine included meeting up with friends, and on this day in particular she was meeting a friend with a parent (ie adult) who was also waiting. That leaves very little room for mistakes, and would be very difficult for someone to pull off -- even with planning, you never know when a neighbor might head out to put trash out or get the mail, etc. If you're planning on abducting this kid -- why would you intentionally plan to grab her when you've only got 3/10s of a mile to get her in the car, the whole time being in front of residential homes where anyone could be home/come outside/drive by at any given time?


Off topic of that --
I have been following WebSleuths since earlier in the summer, coming across this in the very beginnings of the Mickey Shunick case. I am so surprised at how many of the rumors and rumblings turned out to be true in the aftermath of that case. It's an awesome testament to the intuitiveness of this "community".

I completely think that we should examine every possibility, as that's how ideas are created - but at the risk of sounding like the type A person that I am IRL, could everyone provide a basis of reasoning when presenting new ideas? I feel like it would lessen the confusion and tension and may help us further our own investigation better. Even if it's, "I feel like blah blah blah... I don't know why, it's just a gut feeling I have based on this and that," I think it would help with things snowballing from a gut feeling post to moderator intervention because we're so off topic. LOL

For example, I don't think the perp lives near where the backpack was found. IIRC, LE monitored traffic in and out of the neighborhood following that discovery. They searched homes in Westminster, I believe they would've searched that entire neighborhood as well -- had he resided there, there should be a suspect. I believe he was at least familiar enough with JR's neighborhood to know any basic details "it's quiet. it's kid friendly. etc etc" but I don't think he would have had JR in his home, dismembering the poor girl, while so much heat hit a street or two over.

This is such a sad case. I really hope LE has a LOT they aren't telling us (similar to the thread I just read over on Mickey Shunick regarding how much evidence LE collected in that case).

:twocents:

As far as I know, nothing has been "recanted".

Posters seem to think that "predator" translates into "random".

It doesn't...not quite sure why this belief is out there.

Predator = describes perp.
Non-random = describes victim.

:cow:

 

[K.jill]

Normally, crimes like this are a crime of opportunity as opposed to planned and calculated, taunting.
In this case it seems like this perp did plan, possibly stalk, know where he was gonna leave evidence in advance. It seems crazy to think this but I am wondering if he went so far as to plan to use symbolism, dates, leave evidence 6 miles from abduction, the triangle of a pentagram...seems like an over plotted mystery novel....but it might be the case.
What degree do y'all think this perp planned?

 

[cluciano63]

A homeless person seems unlikely to me; I think a home was needed to commit the crime. I suppose just a vehicle would be enough, if private enough, but it depends whether she was actually "not intact" due to actions of the perp. That would require a little more privacy...and space. IMO

 

[otto]

Thank you for posting!

This -

Westminster Police Department Spokesman Trevor Matterasso also said they don't suspect a random abduction.

“We don’t believe there’s a person going around abducting children," he said.

What the....!

They don't suspect a random abduction!

This means that they suspect (obviously) a NON-RANDOM abduction!

Jessica was targeted!!!???

:what:

That article and quote are from October 8

Soooooooooooooo much has changed since then. Police have said that the family are not suspects. They have said that a predator is on the loose. They have linked Jessica's murder to previous attacks on women in the Ketner Lake area.

Does it seem reasonable to go back to information from October 8, prior to the discovery of Jessica's body, and insist that it is still relevant and true?

 

[CHERIE.T]

So much rests on information we just don't know, but on the surface it would seem we have two different personalities at work on this crime.

The reason I say that is essentially, the non-intactness of her body (is this a word?).

If we go with rumour and statistical likliehood, the remains were dismembered to hide identification.

Why then, would the remains be dumped out in the open, just waiting to be found?

The perp was concerned with hiding the ID, then NOT concerned?

This could well indicate two perps...one organised, the other not so much.

Interesting to note the "white van" attempted abduction at the other school the day earlier allegedly had two passengers.

:waitasec:

They were not 'dumbed out in the open'. According to a denver paper update last night, the remains were found in a bag. Scroll back to other thread for link.

 

[CHERIE.T]

So much rests on information we just don't know, but on the surface it would seem we have two different personalities at work on this crime.

The reason I say that is essentially, the non-intactness of her body (is this a word?).

If we go with rumour and statistical likliehood, the remains were dismembered to hide identification.

Why then, would the remains be dumped out in the open, just waiting to be found?

The perp was concerned with hiding the ID, then NOT concerned?

This could well indicate two perps...one organised, the other not so much.

Interesting to note the "white van" attempted abduction at the other school the day earlier allegedly had two passengers.

:waitasec:

They were not 'dumbed out in the open'. According to a denver paper update last night, the remains were found in a bag. Scroll back to the other thread for the link.