Allison Baden-Clay - GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD #40

[Davita]

Does anyone know where OW slept the night of the supposed murder? At her parent's home or at the GBC's home?

 

[alioop]

Wherever Allison's phone was when it connected to the FTP tower, and it must have either been conscious action by someone who had it or an automatic update as Doc said, what do the records show about where it was prior. Is there a cell phone tower trail? This would have been in the evidence provided to the defence but they didn't mention it in court, just the fact that it was picked up by the FTP tower. I don't see how this supports a suicide theory. What are the likely possibilities if it was a suicide. Phone left at home or taken with her. If the latter she could have dropped it on her 14 km walk or thrown it in the creek or kept it on her as she lay herself down on a muddy bank and waited to die from the overdose of zoloft.

 

[alioop]

Something that I have been thinking about is that the less the debt , the less the amount that GBC would have to use from Allison's life insurances thereby leaving him more available cash rather than using it to pay debts. Is that more financial incentive for murder if the debt is less than if it is more?

 

[AAAA]

Most interesting thing there is Bruce Flegg claims that GBC asked him if he knew if there were cameras at the Kenmore roundabout after Allison's disappearance.

After so many posts over the months I'm a little confused.

1. I thought it was posted here that he visited the parents house, wasn't that when Gerard was staying there?
2. Was he the one overheard by a WS member talking at the Brooky Show about the affair coming out in the paper the next day?
3. The roundabout. If I was asked if there were cameras I couldn't help but look for them every time I went through them. Personally, I did look every time, hadn't noticed them before though. Just thinking. Anyway he's got his own dramas right now. IMO.

 

[jojo85]

I would think that the tower would have been the one I saw at the intersection of Centenary Highway and Fig Tree Pocket road. As far as I could tell - and Mountain Misst's maps suggest also - there are no other cell towers in FTP.

BUT - the area of coverage of that tower would extend 360 degrees all around it, and NOT just to the suburb of FTP. I think that is what the judge was getting at with his comment about the connection not necessarily being from the postcode of Fig Tree Pocket.

As far as the Internet connection goes - I think the iPhone's Location Services use internet data as well as 3G data when available, plus GPS from the satellites. So that's one possibility - that the phone just automatically connected for the location services. Others would be something like checking email on auto, software updates, etc - all those are data services I think, as opposed to 3G call-type connections. And they happen automatically. So a dumped phone that is still switched on would do that.

And PERHAPS - that may explain something that puzzled me right from the outset. You may recall that the police were giving out that Allison's phone was in a radius that seemed way too big for the usual phone location functions, and that puzzled me - it should have been MUCH easier to pinpoint the phone. But if it was ONLY logged on to the FTP tower, and that tower would seem to have a large circle of coverage, then there are a lot of possibilities as to dumping places that would fall into that area of coverage.

The iPhone needs more than one tower to use triangulation for location purposes - but if it was ONLY the FTP tower, then the possible location of the phone would be huge. Not if looking WITH the phone, as you would have the satellite data available as well. But to the phone network, a single tower connection wouldn't pinpoint the phone - only that it was somewhere in the circle of coverage.

Hope all that rambling makes sense....

The phone baffles me too. I have no idea about towers etc but the SES told neighbours in our street on Sunday 22nd that they had narrowed the phone location down to within 150m of the house. That was around when property owners were asked to search their properties and SES told me they were specifically looking for the phone.

Also, the helicopter that has the equipment on board to ping mobiles was brought in Friday afternoon/evening so I assumed that was how they came to the 150m thing. So I wonder if and how it got back to the Brookfield area?

And I wonder if the NBC and EBC address might be in a better position to connect to the FTP tower?

IMO.

 

[Champagne4lulu]

http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...-asked-minister-for-money-20121215-2bgji.html

Accused wife killer Gerard Baden-Clay asked for a $400,000 loan from former Housing Minister Bruce Flegg in the months leading up to the death of his wife, Allison Baden-Clay, court documents reveal.

Read more: http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...r-for-money-20121215-2bgji.html#ixzz2F70r2ltu

Oh. My. God.

Just speechless.

 

[AAAA]

OW sat in the courtroom with I think 3 women in the front row of the public gallery just behind the defence team. I didn't see any man obviously with them. I didn't see any footage of her arriving at the court building. Did anyone see any footage.

There was a man and woman standing either side of Olivia in the footage outside the court. I gathered it was on the way in but could have been afterwards. Thought it might have been him.

 

[alicat]

So it would seem that GBC didn't know about the camera(s) at the roundabout. :floorlaugh: I will be so relieved to finally know what the roundabout thing is all about. :waitasec:

I still think he was on one of his daughter's bikes, like this:

 

[Thinking]

After so many posts over the months I'm a little confused.

1. I thought it was posted here that he visited the parents house, wasn't that when Gerard was staying there?
2. Was he the one overheard by a WS member talking at the Brooky Show about the affair coming out in the paper the next day?
3. The roundabout. If I was asked if there were cameras I couldn't help but look for them every time I went through them. Personally, I did look every time, hadn't noticed them before though. Just thinking. Anyway he's got his own dramas right now. IMO.

Hi AAAA - I was the one who heard the local polly talking at the Brooky Show and, while I did see Flegg there, it wasn't him I overheard - just to clarify

 

[DrWatson]

And I wonder if the NBC and EBC address might be in a better position to connect to the FTP tower?

I considered that, and when you look on Google Maps, it does indeed appear to be reasonably close in a straight line. But on the ground, the NBC house is on the downside of the hill leading out of Kenmore, with the FTP phone tower out of line of sight on the other side of Kenmore.

I would think that the NBC address would be in much more direct line of sight to connect to the Kenmore tower, the Vet School Farm tower, or even the Brookfield tower.

 

[Aberline_1979]

I still think he was on one of his daughter's bikes, like this:

Oh, that's VERY GOOD! Very good indeed!

But, as we are well aware by now, Harrison Ford he is definitely NOT! More like the criminal equivalent of Inspector Clouseau

I have actually quite enjoyed reading about GBC's exploits. I mean, he's a bumbling buffoon, and that's amusing...but more importantly, of course, his clumsy actions have pretty much condemned him. The police will make damn sure he isn't getting off on some kind of technicality, or lack of evidence, etc.

Reading about his meeting Bruce Flegg MP and asking for a loan had me chortling...but then...asking him (later) about whether or not there any cameras at the roundabout?!?!?! HOLY MOLEY! I'd LOVE to be able to read a transcript of that phone conversation!!

Can't wait for the trial! I'd love to hear more about him! Like when he crashed his (friend's) car at Indooroopilly, and then had to spend 3 or 4 days in the hospital "recovering".

 

[frustrated detective]

Bumbling buffoon he may be ... but I find him and his manouverings exceptionally frightening and dangerous.

Allison must have been deeply traumatised living with him all those years. It seems to me that for her the post natal and PMT difficulties,that most women struggle with, were made so much harder as she tried so valiantly to live with, parent with and resolve issues with someone who was constantly sabotaging her efforts.

Having experienced a similar, but less intense scenario myself, my heart ached for her when I read her words today.

Thankfully the man who said those cruel and heartless words to his own children on that dreadful morning in April will not be spending this Christmas with those same children.

 

[Makara]

Court documents reveal Allison Baden-Clay and Gerard's mistress Toni McHugh came face-to-face at Indooroopilly gym

by: David Murray
From: The Sunday Mail (Qld)
December 16, 2012 12:00AM

FACE to face in a suburban gym, Allison Baden-Clay and her husband's mistress Toni McHugh stared mutely at each other.
The pair had rarely crossed paths before the chance encounter, which came just weeks after Mrs Baden-Clay found out about her husband's affair. Court documents, lodged as part of accused killer Gerard Baden-Clay's failed bail application on Friday, reveal how both women were lost for words.

"Nothing was said, we just looked at one another," Ms McHugh says in one of four signed police statements.

After the encounter, both women vented their anger on Baden-Clay in text messages.

"I may have used the term that Allison was a lady of leisure in the text message," Ms McHugh told police.
"Gerard never showed me or told me what she had said, just that she had sent him an abusive text message."

Three alleged affairs, including a relationship with a woman named for the first time as Jackie Crane, and their impact on his troubled marriage are also detailed.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ndooroopilly-gym/story-e6freoof-1226537628016

 

[Aberline_1979]

Court documents reveal Allison Baden-Clay and Gerard's mistress Toni McHugh came face-to-face at Indooroopilly gym

by: David Murray
From: The Sunday Mail (Qld)
December 16, 2012 12:00AM





http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ndooroopilly-gym/story-e6freoof-1226537628016

I'm surprised GBC wasn't able to get his two ladies to agree to some kind of "time share arrangement", what with those great negotiation skills (no, "powers!") of his.

Meanwhile, now there's this "Jackie Crane" woman too?! Oh well, at least he hasn't knocked up any of his mistresses. The last thing we'd want is a number of little GBC's growing up in the Western suburbs over the next couple of decades :-(

 

[Makara]

JC reminds me very much of Allison in some of the photos.

https://www.facebook.com/jackie.crane.75#!/jackie.crane.75

 

[Makara]

Baden-Clay had allegedly committed to leaving his wife for Ms McHugh, but their complicated relationship unravelled after the disappearance. In one frosty phone call with Baden-Clay on May 27, Ms McHugh confronted him about another affair.

"The conversation did not go well. When I answered the phone, Gerard said, 'It's me'. I think I went straight into, 'I know what you've been doing. How could you do that to me?'

BBM.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...ndooroopilly-gym/story-e6freoof-1226537628016

Yep, and Allison was probably asking him the same question! More to the point TM, how could you do that to Allison? :twocents:

 

[Makara]

I'm surprised GBC wasn't able to get his two ladies to agree to some kind of "time share arrangement", what with those great negotiation skills (no, "powers!") of his.

Meanwhile, now there's this "Jackie Crane" woman too?! Oh well, at least he hasn't knocked up any of his mistresses. The last thing we'd want is a number of little GBC's growing up in the Western suburbs over the next couple of decades :-(

:floorlaugh: JC is now living in Sydney and I would say she is the same woman the Police interviewed earlier this year. GBC apparently met her at a convention or dinner held on the Gold Coast last year. There are photos on her FB of a REIQ Awards Dinner held in 2011. She probably met him there. Silly girl!

MOO.

 

[Thinking]

:floorlaugh: JC is now living in Sydney and I would say she is the same woman the Police interviewed earlier this year. GBC apparently met her at a convention or dinner held on the Gold Coast last year. There are photos on her FB of a REIQ Awards Dinner held in 2011. She probably met him there. Silly girl!

MOO.

Yes and I bet there were pics of her cuddling up to gbc amongst that myriad of photos on her fb page, before all of this happened. Silly, silly girl.

 

[Fuskier]

The phone baffles me too. I have no idea about towers etc but the SES told neighbours in our street on Sunday 22nd that they had narrowed the phone location down to within 150m of the house. That was around when property owners were asked to search their properties and SES told me they were specifically looking for the phone.

Also, the helicopter that has the equipment on board to ping mobiles was brought in Friday afternoon/evening so I assumed that was how they came to the 150m thing. So I wonder if and how it got back to the Brookfield area?And I wonder if the NBC and EBC address might be in a better position to connect to the FTP tower? IMO.

Good question JOJO85.
Very interesting Doc. Googled Map of Fig Tree Pocket. Depending upon the 360 degree range of the Telstra tower, it could pick up someone travelling with Allison's phone on Brookfield Road, Rafting Ground Road, or Moggill Road, Kenmore area at that hour of the morning. Hypothetically, if OW had been staying at BC Seniors, did she travel to GBC's at that hour of the morning?

Further, as 'ABC's phone was finally determined by triangulation with three towers to be within 150m of the BC house', then the Church next door would be within that range IMO. Somebody around the BC family knows what happened to that phone. I suspect the Police know more. The Trial will be interesting.

 

[DrWatson]

Very interesting Doc. Googled Map of Fig Tree Pocket. Depending upon the 360 degree range of the Telstra tower, it could pick up someone travelling with Allison's phone on Brookfield Road, Rafting Ground Road, or Moggill Road, Kenmore area, at that hour of the morning. Hypothetically, if OW had been staying at BC Seniors, did she travel to GBC's at that hour of the morning?

Further, as Jojo85 said 'ABC's phone was finally determined by triangulation with three towers to be within 150m of the BC house', then the Church next door would be within that range IMO. Somebody around the BC family knows what happened to that phone. I suspect the Police know more. The Trial will be interesting.

Morning Fuskier

Although it may look that way on the map, those locations you mention are actually well OUT of the line of sight of the FTP tower. In those locations, a phone would connect to the towers with the strongest signals - i.e. closest. While Rafting Ground RESERVE (i.e. the parklands nearer the river) would appear to be in line, RG Road wouldn't be, I think. And at Kenmore there is a tower, another at Brookfield, and another at the Vet School Farm on Moggill Road. I think most of the signal we get at Brookfield is from the Brookfield exchange tower - and that would be the one that beams to the old B-C house. At Kenmore roundabout - the infamous and puzzling Kenmore roundabout - it would connect to the main Kenmore tower which is just a couple of hundred metres up the road near the bend in Moggill Rd where it turns to the right before going down the hill past the Nigelaine house.

The hills around the area aren't obvious when looking at the map, and the phone would need to be in line of sight of the tower to connect.

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