General Discussion Thread #2

[Estelle]

How is it that OP is making so many phone calls when his focus should be on reviving Reeva if she is not responsive or ascertaining where her wounds
are and putting compression on them. Ok, so he hospital old him to run her in himself, don't wait for first responders. Wouldn't he all he more be preoccupied with getting her to the car rather than phoning his friend, he estate manager--well, he did tell her to call medical help. Who called his dad and his lawyer or are these rumors?

I'd imagine as an athlete he has some knowledge of injuries and the discipline to address them rather than shout out the balcony, get a third party talking to he hospital for instructions, move the body, and blubber to his best friend. He does finally try some sort of rendition of CPR, but only in the presence of the doctor. By his own account, she is not yet dead when he gets to her.

And how has she now become his partner when she'd never before even spent the night in his apartment and they'd been dating a whole nine weeks?

I totally agree with you. One of our posters who calls himself "writer" said he wondered if they had found out if they had had sex that night. From what Cecil Myers said, it appears that Reeva usually went home about 10pm and he met her half way to guide her home.

This particular night, she had intended going home in advance as told to cecil Myers but then changed her mind. At 10.30pm she sent him a message saying that she was too tired to drive home and would be staying the night. It appears because of his statements and her dependence on his meeting her half way that on the 13th February, 2013 (notice the 13s) that Reeva decided to stay for whatever reason whether fatigue or something else.

The police claimed that she had an overnight bag with her and slippers beside her side of the bed making us think that she had the intention of staying the night or did she simply have her options open? Were they really slippers or just casual shoes she was wearing that night? Men can get that wrong if they were just flat shoes! Was her overnight bag simply a makeup bag which models would carry with them to touch up their makeup?

I am convinced she was still wearing the same street clothes that she was wearing that we see in the video of her arriving - even if they were shorts. A model with great legs would possibly wear shorts if it was a hot day for a casual evening at home with her loved one.

Because we have found out that OP was taking a homeopathic remedy (injected by himself perhaps due to needles found there) to increase his testosterone levels, does this mean he could have been using it to

increase his performance as an athlete,

or does it mean he was impotent and trying to improve his sexual performance or

does it mean that the testosterone levels were way too high making him into an aggressive sexual predator who expected sexual gratification that night and would not let Reeva leave before she gave it to him so he held her captive by locking the bedroom door demanding that she tell Cecil Myers that she would not be coming home that night?

Maybe....just maybe.....he raped/sexually assaulted her....and she threatened to report him to police.

Maybe she found out he was impotent so she was disappointed.

Maybe he was sadistic, dominant and threatened her with a gun if she did not have sex with him.

Who knows?

But I have this gut feeling that he was not a sexually healthy man having put most of his energy into his sporting prowess and could have treated women like sex objects and/or handbags.

Understanding his sexuality is important IMO to understanding him and his consequent behaviour with Reeva.

But a thought that lingers in my mind is whether he could have held her captive and raped her that night.

 

[believe09]

How did she get into the bathroom if he hit her with the bat that hard I wonder? that is where the autopsy will be key. Which came first.

This case makes me so angry. Obviously.

 

[believe09]

OP is an aggressive person. Extremely. And competitive. For me, he is a key example of someone we lionize in the media in spite of how broken he may be as a person. And I am not talking about his legs, but his soul.

Maybe it comes down to something as simple as her rising fame.

 

[21merc7]

More Judge Nair family issue, sad:

http://www.onenewspage.us/n/US/74vpdrl1a/Pistorius-judge-reveals-his-cousin-poisoned-her-kids.htm

Just saw on t.v. the video of Reeva that last day. Norwegian was correct about the smile. When you can see the moving footage, it appears she is smiling and talking to someone (security?) at the gate. While she still looks happy, it is not the happy I was thinking with the still shot of the footage.

Thanks Estelle for bringing up a possibility of rape. Since Reeva was active in women's rights and a lawyer, I'm sure if he tried it she would freak out and refuse, and she would have told him she would charge him with it. We may never know what happened, but it is another possibility.

Who's bright idea was it to advertise a memorial on OP's part, in advance, and once finished? First off, he nor his family, knew Reeva that well. Second, he did kill her regardless. Wouldn't it be best to mourn in private? Sounded more like a party the way it was phrased, which is okay if that is the way it is done there, but not a good idea to advertise such things.

 

[Estelle]

More Judge Nair family issue, sad:

http://www.onenewspage.us/n/US/74vpdrl1a/Pistorius-judge-reveals-his-cousin-poisoned-her-kids.htm

Thanks Estelle for bringing up a possibility of rape. Since Reeva was active in women's rights and a lawyer, I'm sure if he tried it she would freak out and refuse, and she would have told him she would charge him with it. We may never know what happened, but it is another possibility.

IMO it had to be fairly serious for OP to have shot her 4 times so she would not be alive to tell police what really happened that night as he had to protect his reputation. If true, it is only speculation on my behalf, having followed this case from the beginning with this speculation in my mind and not revealing it until now as there is absolutely no evidence - at least not yet. It also accounts for the locked bedroom door. Why lock themselves in?

However, rape/sexual violence/assault (at gunpoint even) makes more sense to me than jealousy and rage over a Valentine's Day message she allegedly received on Facebook from Francois Hougaard.

This theory of rape/sexual violence would also account more for the screams, etc. from 2am to 3am.

I now wonder if he hit her head with the cricket bat whilst her back was turned after she could have fled into the bathroom afterwards with her mobile phone to report him to police and then she fled into the toilet section and locked herself in there but had to drop her mobile first - maybe because he took it from her.

 

[Carol70]

Lawd people,please remember that Botha stated under oath, in front of a magistrate that there was absolutely no evidence that she had been subjected to any type of violence, other than the stated gunshot wounds. I'm pretty sure if she was raped, assaulted etc etc there would have been evidence of that and I'm pretty certain it would have been mentioned in court. Rape actually carries a criminal charge in this country!

 

[Acticoe]

Lawd people,please remember that Botha stated under oath, in front of a magistrate that there was absolutely no evidence that she had been subjected to any type of violence, other than the stated gunshot wounds. I'm pretty sure if she was raped, assaulted etc etc there would have been evidence of that and I'm pretty certain it would have been mentioned in court. Rape actually carries a criminal charge in this country!

I agree - no evidence to make me believe there was any type of assault. There would definitely be some sign on Reeve's body if she had been assaulted.

A heated argument can however, become so heated that sometimes you can lose control. I am a cool, calm person who would never hurt a fly (!) but believe me, having teenage children has driven me close lol.

 

[cityslick]

I'm pretty much done debating this case until more concrete information comes out. I have no problem if folks see him as 100% guilty of premed but it's impossible to debate facts and evidence, when opinions and speculation relies on information that comes from garden variety trash that passes itself off as journalism. I actually thought there were rules on WS on what can and cannot be discussed when it comes to MSM. Example, National Enquirer runs a story that RS may be pregnant and all of a sudden theories and speculation abound on why he killed her if she was pregnant, as if that was verified fact to begin with.

I haven't seen one poster in this thread think he's 100% innocent (including me). The man is guilty of murder and I'm not sure I've seen anyone who disagrees with that. The question is whether he knew for sure who he was shooting at and the answer simply because his story doesn't hold water isn't good enough to prove anything. If someone can explain how his story is 100% impossible, using the information that is verified, then I'd love to hear it.

 

[Estelle]

Lawd people,please remember that Botha stated under oath, in front of a magistrate that there was absolutely no evidence that she had been subjected to any type of violence, other than the stated gunshot wounds. I'm pretty sure if she was raped, assaulted etc etc there would have been evidence of that and I'm pretty certain it would have been mentioned in court. Rape actually carries a criminal charge in this country!

IMO Botha has been discredited in more ways than one.

 

[Carol70]

How is it that OP is making so many phone calls when his focus should be on reviving Reeva if she is not responsive or ascertaining where her wounds
are and putting compression on them. Ok, so he hospital old him to run her in himself, don't wait for first responders. Wouldn't he all he more be preoccupied with getting her to the car rather than phoning his friend, he estate manager--well, he did tell her to call medical help. Who called his dad and his lawyer or are these rumors?

I'd imagine as an athlete he has some knowledge of injuries and the discipline to address them rather than shout out the balcony, get a third party talking to he hospital for instructions, move the body, and blubber to his best friend. He does finally try some sort of rendition of CPR, but only in the presence of he doctor. By his own account, she is not yet dead when he gets to her.

And how has she now become his partner when she'd never before even spent the night in his apartment and they'd been dating a whole nine weeks?

What many phone calls?? He made 2 calls, both for help. Netcare told him to get her to the hospital, his car was running in the driveway and he was carrying her down the stairs when estate management rocked up with a doctor who lives on the estate. I'm sure the doctor would have been able to tell him right then and there that it was pointless..OP did not call a lawyer and perhaps called his brother/ dad after she was pronounced dead. I would damn well hope one of my kids called me immediately should they ever find themselves in that unfortunate position. His family more than likely called a lawyer realizing he most definitely would be needing one.

And if you read the statement, Reeva had spent the previous night with OP, and I'm sure it wasn't the first time either.

I don't mean any disrespect by this but some of these theories are mind boggling...just now some of the media will pick up on it and WS will become the "unnamed source". And I do value everyone's opinions even thou I'm having a moan!

 

[Carol70]

I agree - no evidence to make me believe there was any type of assault. There would definitely be some sign on Reeve's body if she had been assaulted.

A heated argument can however, become so heated that sometimes you can lose control. I am a cool, calm person who would never hurt a fly (!) but believe me, having teenage children has driven me close lol.

Haha, don't I know it, I have some of those critters living in my house too.

 

[Carol70]

IMO Botha has been discredited in more ways than one.

Yes, his shoddy police work has been discredited. He attended the autopsy, he didn't perform it. If he committed perjury on the stand by lying about her injuries, he has a lot more to worry about than 7 attempted murder charges. IMO.

 

[Estelle]

What many phone calls?? He made 2 calls, both for help. Netcare told him to get her to the hospital, his car was running in the driveway and he was carrying her down the stairs when estate management rocked up with a doctor who lives on the estate. I'm sure the doctor would have been able to tell him right then and there that it was pointless..OP did not call a lawyer and perhaps called his brother/ dad after she was pronounced dead. I would damn well hope one of my kids called me immediately should they ever find themselves in that unfortunate position. His family more than likely called a lawyer realizing he most definitely would be needing one.

And if you read the statement, Reeva had spent the previous night with OP, and I'm sure it wasn't the first time either.

I don't mean any disrespect by this but some of these theories are mind IIoggling...just now some of the media will pick up on it and WS will become the "unnamed source". And I do value everyone's opinions even thou I'm having a moan!

If a woman/man has never ever been raped, they do not understand what a woman suffers and they seem to be naive about the possible behaviour and motives of a killer. Have you ever suffered from rape, Carol?

IMO it was OP who said she stayed the previous night but i do not think we can give any credence to his word. Cecil Myers would be the one to tell us and he gave us the impression that this was the first night that Reeva had ever stayed over.

 

[cityslick]

If a woman/man has never ever been raped, they do not understand what a woman suffers and they seem to be naive about the possible behaviour and motives of a killer. Have you ever suffered from rape, Carol?

IMO it was OP who said she stayed the previous night but i do not think we can give any credence to his word. Cecil Myers would be the one to tell us and he gave us the impression that this was the first night that Reeva had ever stayed over.

If this is in fact true (what Myers said), why is any credence being put into what side of the bed she slept in or even why she would of locked the door going to the bathroom, considering the fact it would of been her first overnight in a strange house? The notion that she never stayed over before actually leads more believability to his story as you would then understand how a noise would alert him as he wouldn't normally be used to someone staying with him all the time.

 

[Carol70]

If a woman/man has never ever been raped, they do not understand what a woman suffers and they seem to be naive about the possible behaviour and motives of a killer. Have you ever suffered from rape, Carol?

IMO it was OP who said she stayed the previous night but i do not think we can give any credence to his word. Cecil Myers would be the one to tell us and he gave us the impression that this was the first night that Reeva had ever stayed over.

No, I have not been raped, I have 3 daughters of various age and nor have they, but since I logged on here 40 minutes ago, 10 women in this country HAVE been raped so I'm pretty learned, as are most women in this country but I actually don't understand your question. Elaborate?

 

[otyikondo]

I'm pretty much done debating this case until more concrete information comes out. I have no problem if folks see him as 100% guilty of premed but it's impossible to debate facts and evidence, when opinions and speculation relies on information that comes from garden variety trash that passes itself off as journalism. I actually thought there were rules on WS on what can and cannot be discussed when it comes to MSM. Example, National Enquirer runs a story that RS may be pregnant and all of a sudden theories and speculation abound on why he killed her if she was pregnant, as if that was verified fact to begin with.

I haven't seen one poster in this thread think he's 100% innocent (including me). The man is guilty of murder and I'm not sure I've seen anyone who disagrees with that. The question is whether he knew for sure who he was shooting at and the answer simply because his story doesn't hold water isn't good enough to prove anything. If someone can explain how his story is 100% impossible, using the information that is verified, then I'd love to hear it.

GOOD POST.

I don't think I have anything much to add to this discussion, either, at least until trial time. What I imagined might be an interesting pastime has gone downhill very rapidly.

To be honest, this case doesn't have that much going for it (save lurid "celebrity sex" ingredients) in the "Whodunit?" department, as we know perfectly well who dunnit.

Basically we are simply waiting for the incorruptible forensic evidence (ballistics, blood spatter, bits of human brain on willow - errr...allegedly) to answer a straightforward YES or NO to the facts of the lengthy defence affadavit.

No mystery there.

But when - in the absence of anything more material or remotely resembling established facts - people are citing the National Enquirer as the architectural rationale behind the elaborate houses of cards they are constructing, and when they are clinging to things that have been repeatedly denied as untrue (even under oath in a court of law by BOTH sides of the aisle), I frankly give up in despair.

Like cityslick and many others, I have great trouble believing in his story, but then I would have had trouble believing Barcelona would lose 3-1 at home to Real Madrid last night, so one's probability mileage varies.

Who knows, perhaps Oscar Pistorius is the real deal and the guy really IS the poster-boy for the paranoid, slightly stoned/drunk, gung-ho survivalist who accidentally whacks his nearest and dearest?

It happens all the time (accidental shootings, I mean) in the States - which is of course why it's so tragically laughable when NRA-types come out and say everyone in the cinema/school/diner "should have been carrying".

Still, that would at least cause some kind of Darwinian purge and might reduce the wildest, wackiest speculation on boards like this.

 

[Estelle]

If this is in fact true (what Myers said), why is any credence being put into what side of the bed she slept in or even why she would of locked the door going to the bathroom, considering the fact it would of been her first overnight in a strange house? The notion that she never stayed over before actually leads more believability to his story as you would then understand how a noise would alert him as he wouldn't normally be used to someone staying with him all the time.

i have thought that he would not be used to Reeva or anyone else staying over.

But he heard a noise?

What noise could he have heard? A toilet flushing? A door banging?

Are they the typical sounds of an intruder?

 

[otyikondo]

If this is in fact true (what Myers said), why is any credence being put into what side of the bed she slept in or even why she would of locked the door going to the bathroom, considering the fact it would of been her first overnight in a strange house? The notion that she never stayed over before actually leads more believability to his story as you would then understand how a noise would alert him as he wouldn't normally be used to someone staying with him all the time.

Don't fret, cityslick.
I have no idea WHERE the poster's inference has come from from Myers' statement to City Press that this could conceivably have been the first time she stayed over.

Parse it any way you like, he does not say any of that in anything I have read.

He merely reports she said in a text message she'd be staying over because she was too tired to drive, and he says how he now wishes he'd gone halfway and picked her up. She doesn't say "I've decided to stay over with Oscar for the first time, and as you know I've always come home before".

He never states anything of the sort that this was a "first stayover".

My guess is that as sexually active adults, Reeva and Oscar would have slept together before that night.

That is a blind, semi-educated GUESS. I have nothing to go on.

But then again, Myers' alleged statement, which I have had real serious difficulty finding or recognising... is also "nothing to go on".

If somebody can find for me where he states she had always come home before this... let me know.

Read what he says for yourself...

http://www.citypress.co.za/news/i-could-have-saved-reeva/

 

[Carol70]

IMO it was OP who said she stayed the previous night but i do not think we can give any credence to his word. Cecil Myers would be the one to tell us and he gave us the impression that this was the first night that Reeva had ever stayed over.

/snipped

I also wanted to mention that it's been brought up numerous times that OP statement is very cleverly crafted. You do not think that he would add in his statement that Reeva had spent the previous night at his place if it could not be proven? His estate, as is the norm with most estates, will have record of every single vehicle to enter the estate at any given time. Either by video, or manually recording the number plate of all vehicles entering.

 

[Estelle]

No, I have not been raped, I have 3 daughters of various age and nor have they, but since I logged on here 40 minutes ago, 10 women in this country HAVE been raped so I'm pretty learned, as are most women in this country but I actually don't understand your question. Elaborate?

Well I will take the risk to elaborate, Carol. Well I will admit it that i have suffered from rape myself which gives one more of an insight into it.

Rape is extremely common in most countries - let alone in South Africa. Many rapes go unreported or are reported too late. But you admit to its reported prevalence in South Africa and earlier, you said it is a crime.

The humanitarian news organization IRIN claims that an estimated 500,000 rapes are committed annually in South Africa, but does not provide a source for this figure.

Rape statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I have therefore begun wondering whether if ...and it is a BIG IF....Reeva was indeed raped whether that that would be more punishable in South Africa than murder of an intruder in OP's mnd.... or would rape damage OP's reputation/image more than murder of a supposed intruder in South Arica? hence his possible cover up of rape.