CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #5

[Kaliste]

Yeah, I am, which is why I think I understand her. I can empathize with her.

No. You can empathize with your perception of her.

 

[houndstooth]

3 exits plus fire escapes? I am only aware of 1 entrance/exit and 3 fire escapes.

I posted a photo a few pages back. The building is in the shape of an E each with the same amount of floors I would imagine each had exit stairs and door to the roof, as well.
For maintenance purposes.

 

[necco]

NO, This IS about Elisa. I mean trying to understand the mindset.
Now be honest, is this strictly about wanting to go places to be alone
there, or is it about the prospect of perhaps meeting a handsome stranger
and being unencombered and available?

houndstooth, my husband tends to frown on me picking up handsome strangers on the road. :floorlaugh: It's about the road. It's about the world. It's about being able to do what I want and go where I want on a lark. It's about me.

 

[Sillybilly]

Exactly.

Until now, it seems like the "perfect crime".

I doubt there are numerous peeps ascending and descending fire escapes, day in day out ... so I would think that most activity that takes place on the roof is by those who have easily gained access through the door.

Hotel security would be the most likely to have the authority to go up there at any time and shoo everyone off the roof, close and lock the door. I would think it doesn't get unlocked again until such time as security (or whoever else has the key) decides to unlock it.

MOO

 

[FiveFelines]

NO, This IS about Elisa. I mean trying to understand the mindset.
Now be honest, is this strictly about wanting to go places to be alone
there, or is it about the prospect of perhaps meeting a handsome stranger
and being unencombered and available?

I think there any number of reasons why a woman travels alone:

- likes being alone/doesn't like traveling with other people (I don't think this is as rare as you might suspect)
- meeting other people at her destination (possible here, if she met friends online ahead of time)
- not wanting to wait around for someone to go with you, as necco pointed out

(For me, personally, it is the latter. No idea why it appealed to Elisa, but I don't think it's odd that it did.)

Honestly, I can see why you're interested, but I just don't think traveling by one's self is really that unusual these days, especially at her age. I couldn't find stats on solo female travel, but in my experience and opinion, it's fairly common. Here is an article from Forbes if you're interested in more reasons why women travel alone:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jmaureenhenderson/2012/03/01/a-crash-course-in-solo-travel-for-the-single-girl/

 

[Sillybilly]

I posted a photo a few pages back. The building is in the shape of an E each with the same amount of floors I would imagine each had exit stairs and door to the roof, as well.
For maintenance purposes.

I am aware of the E shape of the building, but in any pictures we've seen of the rooftop, I haven't seen any other apparent entrances onto the rooftop other than the one in the middle section.

 

[FiveFelines]

houndstooth, my husband tends to frown on me picking up handsome strangers on the road. :floorlaugh: It's about the road. It's about the world. It's about being able to do what I want and go where I want on a lark. It's about me.

Heh heh. I was just about to add that to my post. I have a long-term, live-in boyfriend who cannot always travel with me. He's all for me traveling alone or with a female friend. I explore the world because I can and because I want to. Hooking up, as the kids say, is the furthest thing from my mind.

I don't expect everyone to agree--but I'm not someone who believes in limiting myself because of what *might* happen, safety-wise. BTW, I live in a major city, in not-the-best neighborhood, and am very aware of my surroundings, etc., so that may be why I feel this way.

 

[findinganatta]

I'm glad to hear others wondering if it is even EL in the video. That girl simply doesn't look like the same person to me. Not her face, her body type, hair, nothing. But especially her face. And it does strike me as odd that the timestamp is garbled, but this might just be a result of the police wanting to control certain information that isn't relevant to the public.

I tend to believe that "Chinese Sherlock Holmes" investigator guy (I forget his name--I believe his last name was Lee). I think the police probably have plenty of other footage of her, and the elevators (and lobby) can't be the only places with cameras. Who knows what their game is for the investigation, but I just can't get over the fact that the person they claim we're looking at doesn't look like the right person, at least in my opinion. Obviously the crappy video makes it more difficult.

Some other thoughts that I had about the state of her death:
I think a water tank on the roof is an excellent place to hide a body/person. It's not foolproof, but gives the perp ample time to clean up and stall the police.
If there was a perp, his/her intent was for Elisa to die. Some people mentioned the perp could push her off the building, but that would alert the the cops and everyone else too quickly.
I do not think storing her body in the tank was initially planned. The opening is small, so the perp had to make sure Elisa could fit through. If the perp carried her up there and realized she couldn't fit, he'd be in deep crap (he couldn't afford the risk). So I think she was stored elsewhere initially, either in a dead or living state.
If she was forced to get in the tank herself, then the perp would again have to be sure she fit through the opening (which would mean she was a planned target). Otherwise, if she got up there and couldn't fit through, the perp would have to force her to go elsewhere (again increasing the risk).

In reference to your comments about the perp needing to be sure about her fitting into the opening, it was stated by the two men who went and shot a video on the Cecil's roof that the tank hole was easily large enough to fit any adult that wasn't obese. He said you could see that by simply looking at it, and I had exactly the same impression when looking at his detailed video of the tanks.

My theory is that the perp would have already known about the tanks for a while due to hanging out or otherwise spending time on the roof, which apparently is relatively common for some of the people who stay at the hotel. It makes sense to me that if a person who knew about the roof and had killing someone in a hotel filled with people in rooms and in the lobby, the possibility of putting the body on the roof would pop into their head fairly quickly (after all, the ladder isn't that long to get up there--maybe ten feet?). It's possible that the person then thought, "but she'll be found quickly"... and then their mind started jumping around to less obvious places on the roof, and the water tanks hit them like an "a ha" moment.

 

[houndstooth]

I am aware of the E shape of the building, but in any pictures we've seen of the rooftop, I haven't seen any other apparent entrances onto the rooftop other than the one in the middle section.

I was talking about inner service hallways leading from each branch. There has to be something connecting this at the top. Surely if you are on the top floor doing maintenance in one area you don't have to go down to the ground floor and walk over to another bank of elevators go up just to get to the maintenace shed on the roof.

 

[summer_breeze]

Everone,

I'm pleased to share with you Elisa's new sub-forum on WebSleuths, located at the below link:

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=514"]Elisa Lam - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]



The sub-forum has separate threads for:

TIMELINE/MEDIA articles
"Theories only" - "outside the box" thoughts about the case
"FACTS ONLY"
"Translation ONLY"
Poll thread started by Gitana1

and of course all the Discussion threads have been moved to this sub-forum also. I will work on separating posts over the next several days.

Thank you to our Administration team and the owners of WebSleuths for permitting us to create this space for Elisa's case!

Best regards,
~Summer_Breeze

 

[Kaliste]

Everone,

I'm pleased to share with you Elisa's new sub-forum on WebSleuths, located at the below link:

Elisa Lam - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community



The sub-forum has separate threads for:

TIMELINE/MEDIA articles
"Theories only" - "outside the box" thoughts about the case
"FACTS ONLY"
"Translation ONLY"
Poll thread started by Gitana1

and of course all the Discussion threads have been moved to this sub-forum also. I will work on separating posts over the next several days.

Thank you to our Administration team and the owners of WebSleuths for permitting us to create this space for Elisa's case!

Best regards,
~Summer_Breeze

Fantastic!! Love this! Thank you

 

[necco]

I tend to believe that "Chinese Sherlock Holmes" investigator guy (I forget his name--I believe his last name was Lee). I think the police probably have plenty of other footage of her, and the elevators (and lobby) can't be the only places with cameras. Who knows what their game is for the investigation, but I just can't get over the fact that the person they claim we're looking at doesn't look like the right person, at least in my opinion. Obviously the crappy video makes it more difficult.

Respectfully snipped

The "Chinese Sherlock Holmes" guy is Dr. Henry Lee, one of the most respected forensic scientists in the world (although that is not without controversy). He has done some AMAZING work, including getting a conviction in the Helle Crafts murder, the first murder conviction in the state of Connecticut without a body.

 

[catatonia]

We haven't seen any recent(!) pics of her, so I think it's difficult to say whether the girl in the video resembles her or not.

The most recent one has to be this:

http://www.whatsondalian.com/news_images/51244003f1d8c_Elisa_Lam.jpg

 

[hopeitcanhelp]

From what I've seen, the wooden ladder is always there and was there before. The metal one might not usually be there.

 

[Sillybilly]

From what I've seen, the wooden ladder is always there and was there before. The metal one might not usually be there.

The metal ladder is the one that was chained (or strapped as someone else thought) to the other water tank; IMO, it is more than likely the wood one can be moved around by anyone at any time as there is no evidence it was secured

 

[tapu]

I would imagine that police confidence in that video being of Elisa Lam is quite high for them to release it as such. Especially with no disclaimers about the identity. People often look different in film and at different angles. And, we have never seen her animated in life or on film--right? We have just stills, AFAIK. I'll point out too that Elisa was a "poser" in photos. She often has the same smile, the same tilt to the head. The video is far different from that in context.

I am uncertain about what is going on in much of the video, but my impression is not that she's certifiable, scared to death, whacked on drugs, or anything near that. She may be any of those, of course, but that video does not present anywhere near a basis for a diagnosis.

In the initial part, I see her playing in the hall with someone that she may have just met (and I'm thinking turned out to be sinister). She runs into the elevator and hits a whole string of buttons to play-aggravate the other person (much as we did as kids when I was growing up) and then she's puzzled the other person isn't showing up. My ideas for the rest of it aren't strong enough in my mind to make a case.

 

[necco]

I would imagine that police confidence in that video being of Elisa Lam is quite high for them to release it as such. Especially with no disclaimers about the identity. People often look different in film and at different angles. And, we have never seen her animated in life or on film--right? We have just stills, AFAIK. I'll point out too that Elisa was a "poser" in photos. She often has the same smile, the same tilt to the head. The video is far different from that in context.

I am uncertain about what is going on in much of the video, but my impression is not that she's certifiable, scared to death, whacked on drugs, or anything near that. She may be any of those, of course, but that video does not present anywhere near a basis for a diagnosis.

In the initial part, I see her playing in the hall with someone that she may have just met (and I'm thinking turned out to be sinister). She runs into the elevator and hits a whole string of buttons to play-aggravate the other person (much as we did as kids when I was growing up) and then she's puzzled the other person isn't showing up. My ideas for the rest of it aren't strong enough in my mind to make a case.

Honestly, to me, parts of the video look like she's playing with a baby in the hallway. I know it is the middle of the night, which is why I haven't said this previously. It doesn't necessarily explain the button pushing, but a lot of it really looks like she's entertaining a wee one.

 

[ptandj]

Honestly, to me, parts of the video look like she's playing with a baby in the hallway. I know it is the middle of the night, which is why I haven't said this previously. It doesn't necessarily explain the button pushing, but a lot of it really looks like she's entertaining a wee one.

Is it stated someplace that it was the middle of the night? I feel like I've seen conflicting statements of time frame.

 

[AnotherCanuck]

Sillybilly, in this post:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8968131&postcount=1031"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA/Canada - Elisa Lam - 21 years old - Los Angeles/Vancouver - 31-Jan-2013 - #4[/ame]

You said:

Elisa was interested in the environment, pschology, hostelling, she was enrolled at a huge university ... yet out of 295 accounts she was following, none of those interests show up. Personally I find that odd while others don't.

I find that odd, and I don't find it odd at the same time. It seems to me that Elisa was using her online presence (except maybe for FB? But I can't say that for sure because I can't see anything on her FB except her profile picture) to be someone she's not. Or at least, to say things she wouldn't say offline, in ways she wouldn't say them offline...I feel like the Elisa I read about on tumblr is different than what people say she was like in person.

:moo: of course

 

[AnotherCanuck]

very good thinking! I considered this angle; that EL walked into a drug deal, but it didn't add up to me.

It's how EL first enters the elevator. To me, she doesn't have a care in the world. If she accidentally walked into a drug deal, or even walk into someone's room, I think she would have been a bit more...hurried about her candor in the elevator.

And, as you realized, EL would know the danger she was in, and she would have hit the alarm button.

Don't you think, though, if she had tried to go into the wrong room at first, she wouldn't be going into the elevator without a care in the world? Wouldn't she be pretty rushed/frantic/scared at first? Unless the person whose room she tried to get into comes out after she's already tried the elevator...