GUILTY OH - Steubenville Rape Case, 11 Aug 2012 #2

[erik28]

Howarth Family media statement regarding their family and home's (non)involvement in the crimes and other events of August 11 & 12 2012: http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/...dited_media_statement_from_Howarth_family.pdf

 

[erik28]

...Just that cases like this sometimes make me wonder if speaking out as a survivor really makes a difference... I know in my heart it does, but my feelings right now are not reflecting my commitment to making a difference... now I really am forcing myself to take a break for a while...

Speaking out makes a difference to other survivors, and taking care of yourself makes even more of a difference. Activists don't help anyone by wearing themselves thin. Take care of yourself! You deserve it

 

[seattlechiquita]

CNN or ONN? Hard to tell.

I know right?

 

[Steely Dan]

CNN or ONN? Hard to tell.

:laughcry:

 

[BeginnersLuck]

I hope you are correct... I can't find the silver lining in this right now. I had truly thought that over the last 30 years we had come much further than this... Especially in regard to how things are handled in the national media in this case. :anguish:

Now I really do need to take a break from the threads I've been reading and commenting on today. I need to regroup and get a better attitude, and some strength back...

I hadn't seen how bad some of the media quotes were until after I made that post. I was thinking on the lines of how vital the media coverage has been to show the world how many supporters there are for the victims in these recent high profile cases. The media has also given survivors a platform to speak and to call out these politicians and religious leaders when they make statements that are totally off the wall.

It has enraged me and made me want to fight back and speak up. I think I have seen that in others as well. I think no matter how much education, there will always be some jerks. But, "our" voices will be heard louder than theirs.

I certainly hope that the downfall of these institutions, that have tried to cover things up, has sent a clear message to the rest of the country on what consequences will result from not taking action.

I am angry and enraged by the actions of people but on the same token I am empowered by others that have come forward. This is where I see the progress.

 

[bexlex]

I view it, and I feel it the same way... I thought we had come further than this in the last 30 years. I'm not giving up, mind you. Just that cases like this sometimes make me wonder if speaking out as a survivor really makes a difference... I know in my heart it does, but my feelings right now are not reflecting my commitment to making a difference - I just feel depressed right now...

OK, now I really am forcing myself to take a break for a while...

Would it make you feel any better to know that the laughing kid in the video was drummed out of OSU? He was completely outed for what he really is.

 

[Yoda]

I wish the judge would have made a clear statement of what the young men did wrong instead of saying learn how to use social media wisely. It seems a lot more people need to be educated. jMo
“Disgusting outcome on #Steubenville trial. Remember kids, if you’re drunk/slutty at a party, and embarrassed later, just say you got raped!” Twitter response by DJ from U of Toledo.
Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/local/20...ngry-backlash-online.html#PWTSTfE76bT5ERkJ.99

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/20...dict-victim-sparks-angry-backlash-online.html

 

[believe09]

Trolls are coming out of the woodwork for this case, just like any other high profile case. You find "contrarians" everywhere...

I hope these offenders understand how very very lucky they really are. They would have been eaten alive in a penitentiary setting. jmvho.

 

[believe09]

I found CNN's insider response to the video of Poppy Harlow after the verdict to be extremely troubling:

LINK HERE

Meanwhile two insiders at CNN exclusively told TheWrap that the controversy had hit reporter Poppy Harlow, covering the events in Steubenville, particularly hard.
"Poppy is taking this extremely personally as a woman," said one executive. "She's outraged that someone would think she'd do such a thing" as slant her coverage toward rapists. "It's gotten so out of control."

Now, assuming that the insider source reporting is accurate-
I cant believe on top of everything she would actually play the "I am a woman" card. That is immaterial to her comments and her attitude and what was broadcast. Did she not review this material herself? It is pretty cut and dried. There is nothing blown out of proportion here regarding people's outrage.

CNN will make a grave error if they choose not to address this loud and appropriate feedback. jmvho.

 

[TheDuchess]

H Family media statement regarding their family and home's (non)involvement in the crimes and other events of August 11 & 12 2012: http://media.cmgdigital.com/shared/...dited_media_statement_from_Howarth_family.pdf

I am not sure what to say about this. While it is apparent that JH didn't participate in the rape in any way, nor was he drinking or condoning what had happened, I find it sad that the parents take no responsibility whatsoever.

They state that they did, in fact, tell the drunk minors to leave her home. Apparently, JH was smart enough to insure a designated driver was with them, but the parents did not. The bottom line is that if drunk minors show up at your home, are let in by your child and then are sent out into the night, it is ultimately your responsibility.

It appears as though the girls at the home begged her to stay with them and call her friends to come and get her, but she "refused." We see that she was puking in the bathroom and had to be carried out by her hands and feet. Why didn't anyone call up to the father and mother to come down and intercede? One visit to the basement from dad should have resulted in him telling these boys they aren't going anywhere with this obviously intoxicated girl.

I don't have teens just yet, but several of my friends do. They walk the line between being responsible parents and being a "narc." But they do have strict rules when it comes to underaged drinking. If a minor shows up at their home and has been drinking, they are allowed to stay put for the rest of the night and stay with them with no phone calls made. If they decide they wish to leave, their parents will be called to come and get them. If they decide to sneak in booth or continue to drink, their parents are called. I think this is a very fair rule. They provide a safe place for the kids to stay and no one gets hurt, or in trouble with their parents or police.

These parents did no such thing. I know that if a group of loud kids showed up at my home uninvited at midnight, I would definitely be down there investigating what is going on. There is absolutely NO WAY those kids would have left my home once I realized they had been drinking. Since the girl was getting sick, I would have contacted her parents immediately to come and pick her up. I draw the line when a kid is apparently sick and passing out. This girl was so drunk, she could have easily thrown up in her own mouth and choked to death in the middle of the night. Or she could have gone into a coma from alcohol poisoning.

Also, it should be noted that the group was right out front of their home, with the girl puking in the street and her pictures being taken, her clothing taken off, etc... Out front in that street is where a huge portion of the assaults took place and where the pictures that were circulated were taken. Did they not even peek out a window to see what this loud group was doing???

So to say how much they should be commended for their non-actions that evening is disengenous. Those kids became YOUR responsibility the moment they stepped through your door and entered your home, with their son's permission.

Do I think they are bad people and that JH is deserving of the horrible things said about him (i.e. part of the rape crew, etc...) Absolutely NOT!!! But they COULD have and SHOULD have prevented a lot of this from happening if they had just done something rather than kicking the kids out and going back to bed!

I do feel bad for JH, as it is quite apparent that he is not a rapist nor part of any "rape crew." But he did, in fact, allow that poor girl to leave his home with the drunken boys.

 

[TheDuchess]

I wish the judge would have made a clear statement of what the young men did wrong instead of saying learn how to use social media wisely. It seems a lot more people need to be educated. jMo
“Disgusting outcome on #Steubenville trial. Remember kids, if you’re drunk/slutty at a party, and embarrassed later, just say you got raped!” Twitter response by DJ from U of Toledo.
Read more at http://www.toledoblade.com/local/20...ngry-backlash-online.html#PWTSTfE76bT5ERkJ.99

http://www.toledoblade.com/local/20...dict-victim-sparks-angry-backlash-online.html

I know...when I heard that statement from the judge, it really made me stop and say WHAT????

It sounded like he was saying that social media was the PROBLEM!!! In other words, I hope they learn that raping a drunk girl and then posting it online will get you CAUGHT!! I don't really think that is what he was really trying to say. I think he was trying to say that when these things start running around on social media, and you jump into the mix, you then become involved and can ultimately get in trouble as well.

Am I giving him too much credit?

 

[erik28]

The Duchess: I won't begrudge your feelings regarding J.H.'s non-involvement. Having not seen all of the tweets nor heard all of the testimony, I can't say what he did or didn't do. The media statement says that J.H. didn't witness the photo of Jane Doe being carried by T.M. & M.R., which many have described as how the group exited the Howarth residence, but says that he was with the group for 20 minutes after the photo was taken before the parties left.

On Dr. Phil, G.A. talked about how he had no involvement in the case and couldn't believe that his friends were capable of rape, and then he shows up in text message evidence with knowledge of the events close to the time they took place.

I'm reserving judgement in this case, at least until after the Grand Jury. There is a whole lot of evidence that none of us know about, and those who have been the most fervent in using media to "tell the true story" have tended to be those with the most guilt so far.

 

[TheDuchess]

I found CNN's insider response to the video of Poppy Harlow after the verdict to be extremely troubling:

LINK HERE



Now, assuming that the insider source reporting is accurate-
I cant believe on top of everything she would actually play the "I am a woman" card. That is immaterial to her comments and her attitude and what was broadcast. Did she not review this material herself? It is pretty cut and dried. There is nothing blown out of proportion here regarding people's outrage.

CNN will make a grave error if they choose not to address this loud and appropriate feedback. jmvho.

How stick a sock in it POPPY!!! How anyone can think she could do such a thing??? Are you kidding??? YOU were the one who made the statements we all saw and heard with our own eyes. You painted a perfect picture of just how heart wrenching the scene in the courtroom was and how tragic it was that the VERDICT ruined these promising young men's lives forever.

We did NOT hear you say that their ACTIONS ruined their lives. We did NOT hear you say how the VICTIM'S life and her family's lives were ruined!!!

If she was a true reporter and really wanted to show the "drama" of the courtroom, she could have and should have juxtapositioned the boys' "drama" against the backdrop of the victim's "drama." Their drama is NOTHING in comparison!!!:furious:

 

[TheDuchess]

The Duchess: I won't begrudge your feelings regarding J.H.'s non-involvement. Having not seen all of the tweets nor heard all of the testimony, I can't say what he did or didn't do. The media statement says that J.H. didn't witness the photo of Jane Doe being carried by T.M. & M.R., which many have described as how the group exited the Howarth residence, but says that he was with the group for 20 minutes after the photo was taken before the parties left.

On Dr. Phil, G.A. talked about how he had no involvement in the case and couldn't believe that his friends were capable of rape, and then he shows up in text message evidence with knowledge of the events close to the time they took place.

I'm reserving judgement in this case, at least until after the Grand Jury. There is a whole lot of evidence that none of us know about, and those who have been the most fervent in using media to "tell the true story" have tended to be those with the most guilt so far.

Thanks and I do understand your point. I have actually NOT seen any tweets or any evidence in the media about JH's involvement in the case, other than it was his house they were at and that he was part of the "rape crew."

That said-I am clear that he and his parents are ultimately responsible for allowing these kids to leave that home. If they had wrapped a car around a tree and killed them all, trust me-those parents would be responsible. But a rape took place in the street in front of their house and they aren't???

 

[mrsu]

BBM-They thought they would get off because so many of their friends, family and other adults told them they didn't do anything wrong! :furious:

I actually don't believe that for a minute. You think these high school boys REALLY did not know what they are doing was wrong?? I DOUBT IT. That is a total cop out. And when that didn't work they said she was coming on to them. Even my 7yo knows something like this is inappropriate...it was nothing I had to 'teach'. It's basic human decency and anybody that doesn't realize that is an imbecile.

 

[Steely Dan]

I found CNN's insider response to the video of Poppy Harlow after the verdict to be extremely troubling:

LINK HERE



Now, assuming that the insider source reporting is accurate-
I cant believe on top of everything she would actually play the "I am a woman" card. That is immaterial to her comments and her attitude and what was broadcast. Did she not review this material herself? It is pretty cut and dried. There is nothing blown out of proportion here regarding people's outrage.

CNN will make a grave error if they choose not to address this loud and appropriate feedback. jmvho.

That's disgusting. It's like they're denying it ever really happened. :banghead:

I know...when I heard that statement from the judge, it really made me stop and say WHAT????

It sounded like he was saying that social media was the PROBLEM!!! In other words, I hope they learn that raping a drunk girl and then posting it online will get you CAUGHT!! I don't really think that is what he was really trying to say. I think he was trying to say that when these things start running around on social media, and you jump into the mix, you then become involved and can ultimately get in trouble as well.

Am I giving him too much credit?

Yeah, I was totally amazed by that. I took that the same way. That's worse than what Poppy said, IMO.

How stick a sock in it POPPY!!! How anyone can think she could do such a thing??? Are you kidding??? YOU were the one who made the statements we all saw and heard with our own eyes. You painted a perfect picture of just how heart wrenching the scene in the courtroom was and how tragic it was that the VERDICT ruined these promising young men's lives forever.

We did NOT hear you say that their ACTIONS ruined their lives. We did NOT hear you say how the VICTIM'S life and her family's lives were ruined!!!

If she was a true reporter and really wanted to show the "drama" of the courtroom, she could have and should have juxtapositioned the boys' "drama" against the backdrop of the victim's "drama." Their drama is NOTHING in comparison!!!:furious:

:goodpost:

Thanks and I do understand your point. I have actually NOT seen any tweets or any evidence in the media about JH's involvement in the case, other than it was his house they were at and that he was part of the "rape crew."

That said-I am clear that he and his parents are ultimately responsible for allowing these kids to leave that home. If they had wrapped a car around a tree and killed them all, trust me-those parents would be responsible. But a rape took place in the street in front of their house and they aren't???

The parents were home! They chose to do nothing. 'Nuff said.

 

[TheDuchess]

I actually don't believe that for a minute. You think these boys 15 and 16 REALLY did not know what they are doing was wrong?? I DOUBT IT. That is a total cop out. And when that didn't work they said she was coming on to them. Even my 7yo knows something like this is inappropriate...it was nothing I had to 'teach'. It's basic human decency and anybody that doesn't realize that is an imbecile.

With respect-I think you misread my post. I was responding to someone who had mentioned that the boys thought they would get off DURING and LEADING UP to the trial and they were "surprised" they got convicted. Apparently, one of the boys planned to hit Wendy's after the trial.

If you read any of my previous posts on this forum, you will realize that I am absolutely POSITIVE that these boys knew what they did was WRONG, it was RAPE, and was against the law.

My comment was only that because they had their lawyers, their parents, their coaches, etc...tell them they hand't done anything wrong, it was the girl's fault, they wouldn't get convicted, etc...that they felt that the judge would also be fooled into thinking the same.

My post was ONLY about their belief that they wouldn't be convicted. NOT that they didn't realize they had done anything wrong.

I hope I've clarified this correctly.

I DO NOT WANT TO BE INTERPRETED AS TO BEING A RAPE APOLOGIST IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM!!!

ETA: Good grief!!! I just looked back and I had actually responded to YOUR POST!!! How in the world did you take what I responded to you in your post as anything close to what you just accused me of thinking??? Where in my post does it say anything that the boys didn't think they did anything wrong??? Please look back through this thread and find me one poster that isn't as vocal as I have been on this case and my passion about this case. I am really quite offended that you would call me out like that without even reading everything I have posted.

I will chalk it up to the fact that you are just as infuriated and I am about this case. We are both on the same side of this.

 

[PrairieWind]

I think the Judge's statements are being misinterpretted. His verdict on the rape is loud and clear on that matter. But he went on to address the social media issue. And it is a seperate issue, or issues. This girl was victimized both by being raped AND by having those photos/video posted. And this is a problem that is becoming more and more common with kids; the posting of incredibly inappropriate material on the internet, twitter, or just via phone messaages. AND the fact that some of the sick behaviour that kids will do just for the purpose of being photo/filmed to post. The use and abuse of social media is in itself causing poor and harmful behavior by our youth. I think this is the message that the judge is trying to send. And I think it is a very important message that is being missed.

 

[LinTX]

I don't understand this. How was K***** not involved? Wasn't it his house that the last party was at??? And even if he wasn't involved, these were his friends. How can Hanlin justify not recusing herself from the case due to her intimate relationship with the defendents? She personally spoke to the parents of the victim and tried to convince them not to pursue the case. She personally made the decision to take this through the juvenile system. She single-handedly saved these guys YEARS in prison!!! :furious:

No, their house was not involved. IIRC, the first party was at an asst coach's house, the 2nd was JH's and the last was MC's. From testimony, his only involvement was being at the first party and then his name being mentioned by JD's mother or aunt at the hospital. JD said later this was a mistake and CK was not involved. I do think though that Hanlin caused some of the suspicion about him when she made her statement claiming he was not in town at the time of the rape. By "not in town", she knew he was at another party in a town 5 miles away, I guess. She also knew he'd been mentioned in the ER report. She was playing a loose game with the facts at that time and it bit her in the butt, IMO. Based on other rumors, I'll be watching for his name after the grand jury meets though...

(snipped for brevity)

I do feel bad for JH, as it is quite apparent that he is not a rapist nor part of any "rape crew." But he did, in fact, allow that poor girl to leave his home with the drunken boys.

(snipped for brevity)
I'm reserving judgement in this case, at least until after the Grand Jury. There is a whole lot of evidence that none of us know about, and those who have been the most fervent in using media to "tell the true story" have tended to be those with the most guilt so far.

I was struck with how lucky JH was to have been just out of earshot or out of the room during any of the events testified to at the trial. We saw him enter the room at the end of MN video, and how many kids were there describing the horrible things happening to that girl? One talked about going outside to check on her just before JH came into the room. But JH didn't know a thing or notice her condition when he was making sure there was a sober driver... as was commented on, the parents didn't notice the crowds outside yelling about urinating on her, etc., etc. Sounds to me as if this might be practice run of their story for the upcoming grand jury, but if it is truth they also need to remember their names didn't pop up out of the blue and they do hold some responsibility.
A phrase running through my mind - repeated over and over to me as a kid - is "you're known by the company you keep". For some reason MR & TM thought of JH's house as a safe place to bring the girl...and lots of others showed up there too. One tweet was something like "banger @ JH's house!" I'm just cynical at this point, and hope the grand jury is thorough and brings justice to those that need it, and clears those who don't.

 

[LinTX]

I think the Judge's statements are being misinterpretted. His verdict on the rape is loud and clear on that matter. But he went on to address the social media issue. And it is a seperate issue, or issues. This girl was victimized both by being raped AND by having those photos/video posted. And this is a problem that is becoming more and more common with kids; the posting of incredibly inappropriate material on the internet, twitter, or just via phone messaages. AND the fact that some of the sick behaviour that kids will do just for the purpose of being photo/filmed to post. The use and abuse of social media is in itself causing poor and harmful behavior by our youth. I think this is the message that the judge is trying to send. And I think it is a very important message that is being missed.

IMO, rather than blame the vehicle (social media) he should have addressed the intentions of those using it. Bullying, shaming and humiliating a victim. Social media, after all, is what was used by LE to bring justice to this girl.