George Zimmerman /Trayvon Martin Discussion Thread #10 Mon. July 8

[MouseTheLuckyDog]

The state had the same opportunity to send up a laundry list of witnesses to say it was TM's voice. They chose not too.

Probably because they didn't want people to see his friends. Like DD for example.

BTW did she testify it was TM on the 911 call?

 

[SuperTmo]

His injuries do not have to be life threatening, he (GZ) just needs to be in fear of sustaining life threatening injuries. The states own witness testified to this. We know he was in fear because so far all evidence points to GZ screaming for 40+ seconds.

How does the evidence point to GZ screaming? Because his friends and mom say it is him? Similar evidence points to it being Trayvon... right? It's all just opinions of each person's loved ones. Hardly evidence. How do we know it isn't Trayvon? Since Trayvon was the one that died, and GZ was the one who followed him with his gun locked and loaded, my opinion is that it could just as easily be Trayvon screaming. That doesn't make it evidence though, and surely doesn't make it fact.

I can easily see how this sort of testimony could be swayed by a bias or love for a person. I'm not great at explaining some thoughts, so bear with me...if I love someone and want them to get acquitted because I TRULY don't think they did something wrong, I can see how any doubt I had that it was my loved one could be turned to, "well, maybe it IS them? how would I know for certain that it isn't?" IMO, I think our brains can trick us into thinking something is one way when there is a possibility that it is actually another way. Just like Trayvon's mom is certain it's her son, and GZ's mom is certain it's HER son... one is either outright lying, or wants to so fiercely defend her child that her brain has convinced her that it is her son. There will be people who whole heartedly believe it is GZ screaming and people who honestly believe it is Trayvon Martin screaming... they can't all be right, so this evidence is kind of pointless since it cancels itself out, IMO.

 

[Just K]

This witness, John Donnelly's wife, said 2002. She heard GZ yelling at the political rallies (Whooping it up, is what she said.) Interesting, he would have been EIGHTEEN years old or NINETEEN. That is when his voice was much younger (Nine or Ten years) and about TM's age

 

[katiewonders]

...and how in the world ,while all this is going on,is George able to pull his gun out of its holster and precisely place it against Trayvon's heart ?

We will never know the answer to your question. But, IMO, in this attack, something gave GZ an opportunity - TM got distracted, tired, or shifted his weight, for example - and he got the gun.

Before anyone responds, none of what I wrote is in evidence, it is only my opinion.

 

[Wolfpack Fan]

I myself would not go visit a relative in another town or even in another subdivision and walk to a store, much less one that was a mile away, and then stop in someone's yard and look over at that person's house. It might have been safe in the 1950s or 1960s, but not now. I live in a rural area, and I would not even walk one-fourth mile up the road to the country store in the dark. This isn't an opinion. It's a fact.

 

[Isabelle]

Yes, it sounds like he is trying to convince him it's his voice and yet GZ should know if it was or not.

Toward the end of the discussion, Serino says, "help me, help me". Why would he want GZ to help him? I can think of only one reason. mo

 

[PaperDoll]

Thanks for the link. Waiting for it to load...taptaptap

You are welcome

 

[cityslick]

How does the evidence point to GZ screaming? Because his friends and mom say it is him? Similar evidence points to it being Trayvon... right? It's all just opinions of each person's loved ones. Hardly evidence. How do we know it isn't Trayvon? Since Trayvon was the one that died, and GZ was the one who followed him with his gun locked and loaded, my opinion is that it could just as easily be Trayvon screaming. That doesn't make it evidence though, and surely doesn't make it fact.

I can easily see how this sort of testimony could be swayed by a bias or love for a person. I'm not great at explaining some thoughts, so bear with me...if I love someone and want them to get acquitted because I TRULY don't think they did something wrong, I can see how any doubt I had that it was my loved one could be turned to, "well, maybe it IS them? how would I know for certain that it isn't?" IMO, I think our brains can trick us into thinking something is one way when there is a possibility that it is actually another way. Just like Trayvon's mom is certain it's her son, and GZ's mom is certain it's HER son... one is either outright lying, or wants to so fiercely defend her child that her brain has convinced her that it is her son. There will be people who whole heartedly believe it is GZ screaming and people who honestly believe it is Trayvon Martin screaming... they can't all be right, so this evidence is kind of pointless since it cancels itself out, IMO.

JG was not a GZ friend, he didn't even know GZ. He said a lighter skinned man was on the bottom. He was the closest person to see the fight. How do you throw out that testimony? Where is the bias in that witness?

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I'll have to remind my oldest DS's BFF of this the next time he walks over to our house from the next neighborhood over when it's raining.

Good idea. And hopefully he won't start any altercations either imo.

 

[LynnM]

I doubt GZ knew how serious his wounds were as he was receiving him. I think he was scared and trying to prevent receiving even worse injuries, or death. My question is, why did he have any type of injury whatsoever? imo

IMO because he confronted Trayvon and tried to physically detain him and Trayvon defended himself

 

[csziggy]

Interesting. How significant could his injuries be if they required nothing more than a couple of bandaids? Not even a CT scan or MRI was done to make sure there was no brain injury... MOO

Respectfully clipped.

GZ's "injuries" didn't even need bandaids. Although he had some IMO inappropriate bandaids on his head during his recreation video with LE, neither the EMTs on the night of the event nor his Physician's Assistant the day after put any bandaids, butterfly, strips or any other dressing on his tiny lacerations.

The "inappropriate" comment is because the bandaids GZ was sporting during the recreation are knuckle and fingertip bandaids. They are 2.75" to 3" long and .75" wide - HUGE compared with his tiny 2 cm and 0.5 cm boo boos on the back of his head. And the fingertip bandaid on his nose was just ridiculous.

I'm too lazy this morning to dig up the EMT or PA reports or the pictures of GZ from the police station, so IMO, JMO, :moo:

 

[PaperDoll]

Was this happening after he was crying for help? Is there any story that GZ has told where he says he wasn't crying for help?

From interview with Serino:

"Serino: OK. 9mm inside your pants? He was mounted on you, you were able, he was mounted on your upper chest? Or, I mean, at what point were you able to free your waist side to go ahead and pull out your weapon?
Zimmerman: When he…he was mounted on me but he had pressure on my nose and my mouth, suffocating me. And when he let go of my mouth and started reaching down my side, he said, “You’re gonna die tonight.” I didn’t need my hand any more cause he let go of my mouth. I don’t remember if I was still screaming or not. That’s when I grabbed his hand and I grabbed my, my firearm and fired. So it was one side, he let go, that I realized I didn’t need my hand and he was gonna kill me.
Serino: How long did he suffocate you for?
Zimmerman: (sigh) Felt like…
Serino: Seemed like forever, I’m sure.
Zimmerman: Felt like hours, but I don’t…"

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

How does the evidence point to GZ screaming? Because his friends and mom say it is him? Similar evidence points to it being Trayvon... right? It's all just opinions of each person's loved ones. Hardly evidence. How do we know it isn't Trayvon? Since Trayvon was the one that died, and GZ was the one who followed him with his gun locked and loaded, my opinion is that it could just as easily be Trayvon screaming. That doesn't make it evidence though, and surely doesn't make it fact.

I can easily see how this sort of testimony could be swayed by a bias or love for a person. I'm not great at explaining some thoughts, so bear with me...if I love someone and want them to get acquitted because I TRULY don't think they did something wrong, I can see how any doubt I had that it was my loved one could be turned to, "well, maybe it IS them? how would I know for certain that it isn't?" IMO, I think our brains can trick us into thinking something is one way when there is a possibility that it is actually another way. Just like Trayvon's mom is certain it's her son, and GZ's mom is certain it's HER son... one is either outright lying, or wants to so fiercely defend her child that her brain has convinced her that it is her son. There will be people who whole heartedly believe it is GZ screaming and people who honestly believe it is Trayvon Martin screaming... they can't all be right, so this evidence is kind of pointless since it cancels itself out, IMO.

Because a neighbor came out and saw him being beaten by TM and yelling to him for help. Because GZ thought the whole thing was on video and said the same thing.. that it was him yelling.. because he said it was him yelling for help before he knew of any independent witnesses, or if the police where there closing in..

IT would be too easy to be proven as a liar that night if he was lying..

I believe he was being truthful.

JMO

 

[Horace Finklestein]

IMO because he confronted Trayvon and tried to physically detain him and Trayvon defended himself

I don't get how if TM was running, per the 9-11 call, how GZ could have caught him, unless GZ has superhuman speed. Makes no sense imo. If TM wanted to get away he would have, easily imo.

 

[Isabelle]

I cannot imagine the defense having one witness after another testify that is tis GZ's voice screaming, pleading for help in the 911 call. I hope they have more than that, because as a juror, I would find this absurd as well as comical.

 

[PaperDoll]

Was this happening after he was crying for help? Is there any story that GZ has told where he says he wasn't crying for help?

playing a witness 911 call and questioning at the same time)
Serino: You’re that voice in the background?
Zimmerman: No, sir.
Serino: That’s you. Are you hearing yourself?
Zimmerman: Um, it doesn’t sound like me.
Serino: It’s you.
(listening to the 911 call)
Serino: OK, right there. He smothered you, correct?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: At what point did he smother you?
Zimmerman: After…
Serino: Was it right before you shot him?
Zimmerman: Right…yes, sir.
Serino: OK. Immediately behind the shot?
Zimmerman: (sigh) I don’t remember.
Serino: OK.
(plays 911 call again)
Serino: I need you to give me an approximate time of when he starts to smother you.
Zimmerman: I don’t know when. It’s hard to…
Serino: That’s you, yelling for help.
Zimmerman: (unintelligible)
Serino: Help me, help me.
Serino: That’s when you shot him. (clears his throat) Can you recall (coughs) excuse me…at what point the suffocation happened? Prior to, prior to you shooting him, he was on you, correct?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. And you were able to reach into your holster.
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. You shot him at point blank range. He was on top of you, right?
Zimmerman: Yes, sir.
Serino: OK. And in the middle of all that yelling, nobody came out to help you. And I can’t, I can’t pinpoint where you were smothered. That’s the problem I’m having. And nobody’s saying they saw him smothering you. People are saying they saw you, saw him on top of you, but they didn’t see about the smothering part. So…
Singleton: And when we’re listening to the screaming, doesn’t sound like there’s a hesitation in the screaming. It sounds like it’s continuous, and if someone’s being hurt (imitates scream being muffled) It’s gonna stop. But we don’t hear the, we don’t hear it stop.

 

[LinTX]

AT 7 p.m.? an after dinner trip to the store, just barely dark? I cannot make the leap that is suspicious activity, especially talkin' with a friend. I have seen my own son rarely without a cell to his ear for the last 9 yrs. he stops, pauses, makes animated motions....in all kinds of weather, and yes, has been known to stand in the driveway of my own house in the rain with his hood over his head

Yet several witnesses have said that just hearing the voices caught their attention because people were out there in the darkness and pouring rain - they apparently thought it was unusual, IIRC.

 

[cityslick]

I don't get how if TM was running, per the 9-11 call, how GZ could have caught him, unless GZ has superhuman speed. Makes no sense imo. If TM wanted to get away he would have, easily imo.

Nobody can explain this. It is a fact that TM stopped running at some point. The question is there is no physical way he kept on going in a straight line and wind up where he did.

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

IMO because he confronted Trayvon and tried to physically detain him and Trayvon defended himself

That is not what the evidence shows though. Not at all. Based on the facts of the case and the witnesses from that night.

JMO

 

[PaperDoll]

why "should " he?

are you positive you would know your own voice under extreme stress?

if so, I think you might possible be wrong.

have you NEVER not recognized your own voice? i think many people have not recognized their recorded voice. i know I have not, several times, and not under stress.

imo

GZ doesn't need to know his own voice, he should know if he was the one screaming like he told the police, who else could have been screaming? Oh, maybe TM? They were the only two going at it.