WI - Children's hospital on lockdown after report of shooting

[Jersey*Girl]

My question is, why would you serve a warrant on a wanted man, who has been known to carry guns at a neo- natal unit? IDIOTS!

I don't think a wanted man for a felony weapons charge should even be allowed to enter a hospital, with a gun no less, and most certainly shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a neonatal unit. I'd be pizzed if I was a nurse working in a neo unit & this cat came strolling in with a dang gun.

It's crazy to me now seeing things in different context from when I first read the beginning of this thread. Once I read the articles & seen his charges/history, this is a bad guy. No matter whatever police have going on there in the past, it's nuts to me that his facebook friends are sticking up for this .

 

[Justiceforever]

If there is a wanted guy on a felony weapons charge walking around a hospital freely and cops get a tip about it, yet do nothing until he walks outside, then they'd be liable if he shot up the people in the hospital. They wouldn't be doing their jobs correctly if they just let it go & wait it out. They're putting people lives at risk if they just wait it out. Their job is to protect the law. This wanted guy was breaking the law. It's the cops' job to arrest him. He fled when they tried to arrest him, all the while brandishing a handgun, so cops shot him. They did their job. They had to protect themselves as well as staff, patients & patrons from this criminal.

He was an idiot and a criminal for bringing a weapon to the hospital for sure. However, his weapon was concealed. He wasn't threatening anybody. He was holding his baby and being cooperative until they got to an empty hallway, then he began to wrestle and was shot. I don't know what happened in that hallway, but I DO know that MPD have a reputation , among other things, for being trigger happy cowards (Not my words)!

I would like to know what kind of security they have in the hospital that he was even allowed to enter the unit with a concealed gun!

 

[Softail]

This is too close to home for me. My grandbaby was at this hospital not too long ago. :sigh:

 

[Gardenlady]

I don't buy that the only way they could handle this was by shooting him. In almost any other western nation, the procedure seems to be to not antagonize a bad guy with a weapon, and to minimize risk to both the perp and innocents in the area. If they had knowledge this guy was in the holding a baby, visiting a newborn, whatever, then there is zero reason to believe he was about to begin opening fire, and could have waited u til he was done in the neonatal unit, and either outside, or at least in a less dangerous area (stairway? elevator? hallway?) It is, IMO, looking for a shoot out to go in there and confront the perp like this, and will always result in injury or death to someone. Crazy.

Also - if you have never lived in a community with corrupt LE who think nothing of shooting first and questioning later, or subjecting innocent people to rough friskings without cause, or getting in your face for no reason, or constantly provoking things, then It's hard to explain what that does to people. I have seen it with my own eyes, and had it done to me, my friends, neighbors, too many times to count growing up. It is especially bad if you are a generally law abiding person (not saying this guy was) who lives in sketchy areas yet you can't trust either the people on the street or the LE.

 

[Justiceforever]

I guess we will know if this shooting was justifiable when MPD investigates themselves and says it was! Forgive me if I sound cynical.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I don't buy that the only way they could handle this was by shooting him. In almost any other western nation, the procedure seems to be to not antagonize a bad guy with a weapon, and to minimize risk to both the perp and innocents in the area. If they had knowledge this guy was in the holding a baby, visiting a newborn, whatever, then there is zero reason to believe he was about to begin opening fire, and could have waited u til he was done in the neonatal unit, and either outside, or at least in a less dangerous area (stairway? elevator? hallway?) It is, IMO, looking for a shoot out to go in there and confront the perp like this, and will always result in injury or death to someone. Crazy.

Also - if you have never lived in a community with corrupt LE who think nothing of shooting first and questioning later, or subjecting innocent people to rough friskings without cause, or getting in your face for no reason, or constantly provoking things, then It's hard to explain what that does to people. I have seen it with my own eyes, and had it done to me, my friends, neighbors, too many times to count growing up. It is especially bad if you are a generally law abiding person (not saying this guy was) who lives in sketchy areas yet you can't trust either the people on the street or the LE.

The guy pulled out a gun. He. Brandished. A. Weapon. Are the cops supposed to wait for him to shoot or try to talk him out of shooting instead of shooting to injure him? They clearly could have killed him but they didn't. It was in every patients' & hospital workers' best interest that cops subdue this guy. He was a danger to every single person in that hospital, including to himself.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

He was an idiot and a criminal for bringing a weapon to the hospital for sure. However, his weapon was concealed. He wasn't threatening anybody. He was holding his baby and being cooperative until they got to an empty hallway, then he began to wrestle and was shot. I don't know what happened in that hallway, but I DO know that MPD have a reputation , among other things, for being trigger happy cowards (Not my words)!

I would like to know what kind of security they have in the hospital that he was even allowed to enter the unit with a concealed gun!

Concealed, no problem. But when cops went to arrest him, he ran & pulled out a gun. One good thing about hospitals is this - there TONS of cameras. So no matter what MPD's reputation is, the camera footage says it all.

From the first post:
http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/14/us/wisconsin-hospital-lockdown/index.html

Snipped:
Milwaukee police had gone to the Children's Hospital of Wisconsin to arrest the man on a felony warrant and found him holding a child in the intensive care unit, Milwaukee County Sheriff David Clarke told reporters. Instead of surrendering, the man took out a handgun and fled down a hallway, prompting police to shoot him.

"When he was first approached, he put the baby down and he acted as if he was going to go along peacefully," Clarke said. "And it wasn't until a couple of seconds later that he bolted."

 

[Gardenlady]

He brandished the weapon because he was confronted! If they had waited on him, he would have finished his visit and left.

Does this guy have a history of making threats of shooting up public places? Has he shot up public places in the past? Even thugs visit their babies in the hospital. There was zero need for a confrontation, they put tons of lives at risk. Unacceptable.

 

[meanmaryjean]

I don't think a wanted man for a felony weapons charge should even be allowed to enter a hospital, with a gun no less, and most certainly shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a neonatal unit. I'd be pizzed if I was a nurse working in a neo unit & this cat came strolling in with a dang gun.

It's crazy to me now seeing things in different context from when I first read the beginning of this thread. Once I read the articles & seen his charges/history, this is a bad guy. No matter whatever police have going on there in the past, it's nuts to me that his facebook friends are sticking up for this .

Hospital visitors are not screened AT ALL any more. Because we don't want anyone to give us a bad survey, after all! Act like you know where you're going/ what you're doing and see how far into a hospital you can get. It's sickening. I work on a locked (thank God) Pediatric ICU. But who stands between the patient and the bad guys? The unarmed nurse, that's who.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

He brandished the weapon because he was confronted! If they had waited on him, he would have finished his visit and left.

Does this guy have a history of making threats of shooting up public places? Has he shot up public places in the past? Even thugs visit their babies in the hospital. There was zero need for a confrontation, they put tons of lives at risk. Unacceptable.

Thats ridiculous. Nobody has a right to brandish a gun AT A COP that's serving a warrant for their arrest. Nobody at all. Again, they were arresting him on a Felony Weapons Charge.

 

[Gardenlady]

Never said he had a right to brandish a gun at anyone. Just saying that from all appearances, he was there to visit his baby, which yes, even bad guys with guns do from time to time. There was no evidence at all that he was at risk to shoot up the hospital. Again, does he have a history of those types of crimes? Or is he just your run of the mill criminal that carries a gun to protect himself from other criminals?

Again, even thugs visit babies or sick grannies in the hospital. There is no proof he was there to do anything else. Had they waited, he'd have probably left like anyone else, gun or no gun.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Hospital visitors are not screened AT ALL any more. Because we don't want anyone to give us a bad survey, after all! Act like you know where you're going/ what you're doing and see how far into a hospital you can get. It's sickening. I work on a locked (thank God) Pediatric ICU. But who stands between the patient and the bad guys? The unarmed nurse, that's who.

Thank you... & I know many many many people in your shoes that are sick and tired of these criminals & felons walking into their place of work like they own it! It's dangerous. Hospitals are about saving lives. That guy was visiting his baby with a freaking gun, knowing full well there was a serious warrant out for his arrest - for a weapons charge no less! What a loser.

 

[Jersey*Girl]

Never said he had a right to brandish a gun at anyone. Just saying that from all appearances, he was there to visit his baby, which yes, even bad guys with guns do from time to time. There was no evidence at all that he was at risk to shoot up the hospital. Again, does he have a history of those types of crimes? Or is he just your run of the mill criminal that carries a gun to protect himself from other criminals?

Again, even thugs visit babies or sick grannies in the hospital. There is no proof he was there to do anything else. Had they waited, he'd have probably left like anyone else, gun or no gun.

I understand what you're saying, but what about the person that called in the tip? Maybe that person felt threatened? If that person felt threatened by this guy carrying a gun, then they may have a reason to feel that way kwim?

Something else, if his gun was concealed like it was supposed to be, then how did someone know he had the gun on him...enough proof to call the cops? Bc they felt uneasy that he was there with a gun.

Maybe he was gonna shoot somebody there and the cops saved their life by subduing this guy.

 

[Gardenlady]

I'm guessing that like most run of the mill criminals, he had it tucked into his pants somewhere, and maybe someone saw it? Or maybe someone knew him and recognized that he was someone the police were looking for.

I do not think your *average* criminal with a gun plans to go into a hospital to shoot someone. This guy in particular, he was seen holding his baby. I do not think he was planning to harm anyone, he just carries his gun for personal protection all the time. I think, had they been less gung ho, and waited for a natural end to the visit, they could have bagged this guy coming out of one of the exits with no one hurt, and with no other lives out at risk.

 

[Zuri]

IMO I really don't believe the felon would have used his gun on anyone while visiting his baby. IMO the police should NOT have served a warrant in the nursery with innocent babies and adults at risk. They could have waited to serve the warrant outside. IMO, that was just plain stupidity. Police provoked the situation that could have ended much worse. In all my years of working ERs and in other departments, I have never heard of such a thing being done by the cops. JMO

 

[Jersey*Girl]

I'm guessing that like most run of the mill criminals, he had it tucked into his pants somewhere, and maybe someone saw it? Or maybe someone knew him and recognized that he was someone the police were looking for.

I do not think your *average* criminal with a gun plans to go into a hospital to shoot someone. This guy in particular, he was seen holding his baby. I do not think he was planning to harm anyone, he just carries his gun for personal protection all the time. I think, had they been less gung ho, and waited for a natural end to the visit, they could have bagged this guy coming out of one of the exits with no one hurt, and with no other lives out at risk.

Is it possible he knew he was gonna go to jail bc of his warrant but wanted to see his baby beforehand?

 

[Sonya610]

Is it possible he knew he was gonna go to jail bc of his warrant but wanted to see his baby beforehand?

I think it is more likely that the baby's momma (or one of her relatives) hated this guy and when they found out he came to see the baby they phoned 911 because they knew he had warrants.

I also agree that the police should have waited and nabbed him OUTSIDE the hospital instead of provoking a confrontation inside, these days police do NOT go on high speed chases in crowded areas because they risk innocent bystanders getting hit/killed, same principal it is better to let the perp run for a bit than risk innocent lives.

 

[animlzrule]

I can't lose any sleep over the fact that this (self edit) was shot. He brought a GUN into a hospital. WTF?????? Most of the businesses and certainly all of the clinics and hospitals in my concealed carry state (still so embarrassing to say that) have signs posted at all entrances that firearms are not permitted on the premises. I don't care if he was docile as a lamb with his baby. Dude walked into a hospital with a gun on him. He deserves every bad thing that happens to him.

 

[txsvicki]

If I had a baby in ICU it would be very upsetting to know they arrested him in the unit. Unless he had been threatening to take the baby or shoot the mother. I'm glad he wasn't killed. There could possibly be hope for a guy who'd risk arrest by going to see his sick baby. He'll probably be respected in jail and have a tale to tell.

 

[Sonya610]

Most of the businesses and certainly all of the clinics and hospitals in my concealed carry state (still so embarrassing to say that) have signs posted at all entrances that firearms are not permitted on the premises.

State law may cover hospitals (I honestly don't know and don't feel like looking it up) but other than that those signs that businesses and malls put up don't mean jack sheesh.

If it does not violate federal or state laws then the signs that businesses and malls put up are silly and meaningless. Most they can do if they realized a person was carrying a firearm is ask them to LEAVE and if the person refused to leave then they could press trespassing charges.

Those businesses could ALSO put up signs saying "gum chewing is banned on this property" or "visitors are forbidden to wear pink socks" but that doesn't mean gum chewing OR the wearing of pink socks will get you prison time because some silly sign was posted.