Deceased/Not Found Canada - Alvin, 66, & Kathy Liknes, 53, Nathan O'Brien, 5, Calgary, 30 Jun 2014 - #10

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Touchtherapy said:
In our situation immediate family was brought to the scene...it was our responsibility to clean it up but police also wanted insight on where stuff may be hidden and it also provided us closure. There was brain matter and lots of blood and well it was not something we wanted to necessarily see...it stopped us from wondering. We had to clean the investigation up as well...finger printing powder ect. It was awful but at the same time it allowed us to grieve the facts as opposed to trying to come to terms with things and allowing our minds to run wild. It also put us on the same page as LE so that we understood the direction the investigation was going, and why. I am not sure that it is "standard" per say....I can only add based on experience.
I remember leaving the scene and not crying...I was numb...dumb founded by what I had seen and totally traumatized. I believe in my heart that JO was brough there yes to explain what may be missing but also so that she understood how and why they suspect murder. As a mother I would need to see it. I would need to know...as a daughter I would need to see it and need to know so that I could grieve. Well the information was not released to public at that point that it was a murder scene...I truly belive that the family knew this early on. And JO remaining composed was because of shock, trauma and numbness. After we left the scene of the tragedy we experienced it took me getting home, walking through my door and seeing my own clean house and how totally out of sorts the scene had been...then I vomited profusely for two hours and shock turned to greif and trauma and total pain. Everytime I looked at a white wall I seen blood and brain matter and finger print dust. however leading up to seeing the scene. ..all we could do was imagine the horror. And well what we seen was awful, scaring and horrific it was not nearly as bad as our minds had envisioned. It still haunts me though. I want to hug JO...my loss was not nearly the same magnitude with what she is experiencing and it nearly wrecked me. I cannot fathom her state right now.
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Thank you so much for sharing your touching and agonizing story. I cannot even imagine how hard it must have been for you to even write this :(... May you find peace day by day, in spite of your obviously tragic loss.
 
stan laurel said:
how would he know this if he had only spoken to/had seen DG once in 4 years. did AL'n drive it or talk to DG about it? not important but an odd statement nonetheless
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I was just thinking this.
Could I identify my sister's husband's brothers vehicle? No. No matter how hard I try, I couldn't tell you if he drives a van, truck, rocketship or what kind of condition it could be in.
There's missing info here for sure.
 
Leeby said:
Thank you so much for sharing your touching and agonizing story. I cannot even imagine how hard it must have been for you to even write this :(... May you find peace day by day, in spite of your obviously tragic loss.
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Thank you Leeby. Its alot easier now to talk about it then it was 5 years ago. Time softens the edges. evil changes your view of the world. Prior to our loss, my world was rosey...people were good...I still had the ability to have blinders on and walk through life thinking the best of everyone. It was a harsh reality check and rude awakening to evil. I was 23 at the time....old enough to lack innocence...and old enough to accept that my perception of the world was flawed. My heart achs for the older brother of NO...his view of the world has been stripped from him far too young. He's still innocent and still had plenty of time before his blinders should be stripped :( he loses his brother, grandparents, the mother and father he knew are gone now too...they will never be the same people again and he loses his innocence. Its tragic really.
 
julydarling said:
I was just thinking this.
Could I identify my sister's husband's brothers vehicle? No. No matter how hard I try, I couldn't tell you if he drives a van, truck, rocketship or what kind of condition it could be in.
There's missing info here for sure.
Click to expand...
If DG had the vehicle for some time I'm sure the family would be quite aware of what it looked like especially since it was distinctive. I know what my sister-in-law drives and she knows what I drive.
 
Touchtherapy said:
In our situation immediate family was brought to the scene...it was our responsibility to clean it up but police also wanted insight on where stuff may be hidden and it also provided us closure. There was brain matter and lots of blood and well it was not something we wanted to necessarily see...it stopped us from wondering. We had to clean the investigation up as well...finger printing powder ect. It was awful but at the same time it allowed us to grieve the facts as opposed to trying to come to terms with things and allowing our minds to run wild. It also put us on the same page as LE so that we understood the direction the investigation was going, and why. I am not sure that it is "standard" per say....I can only add based on experience.
I remember leaving the scene and not crying...I was numb...dumb founded by what I had seen and totally traumatized. I believe in my heart that JO was brough there yes to explain what may be missing but also so that she understood how and why they suspect murder. As a mother I would need to see it. I would need to know...as a daughter I would need to see it and need to know so that I could grieve. Well the information was not released to public at that point that it was a murder scene...I truly belive that the family knew this early on. And JO remaining composed was because of shock, trauma and numbness. After we left the scene of the tragedy we experienced it took me getting home, walking through my door and seeing my own clean house and how totally out of sorts the scene had been...then I vomited profusely for two hours and shock turned to greif and trauma and total pain. Everytime I looked at a white wall I seen blood and brain matter and finger print dust. however leading up to seeing the scene. ..all we could do was imagine the horror. And well what we seen was awful, scaring and horrific it was not nearly as bad as our minds had envisioned. It still haunts me though. I want to hug JO...my loss was not nearly the same magnitude with what she is experiencing and it nearly wrecked me. I cannot fathom her state right now.
Click to expand...
What a brave and beautiful person you are to share your story. Thank you.
 
Touchtherapy said:
Thank you Leeby. Its alot easier now to talk about it then it was 5 years ago. Time softens the edges. evil changes your view of the world. Prior to our loss, my world was rosey...people were good...I still had the ability to have blinders on and walk through life thinking the best of everyone. It was a harsh reality check and rude awakening to evil. I was 23 at the time....old enough to lack innocence...and old enough to accept that my perception of the world was flawed. My heart achs for the older brother of NO...his view of the world has been stripped from him far too young. He's still innocent and still had plenty of time before his blinders should be stripped :( he loses his brother, grandparents, the mother and father he knew are gone now too...they will never be the same people again and he loses his innocence. Its tragic really.
Click to expand...

Yes, thank you for sharing your unbelievably difficult experience. And I agree with you 100%, when I think of the whole story, its NO's brother that brings me to tears the most. I just wouldn't know where to start to explain something like this to a child his age.
 
julydarling said:
I was just thinking this.
Could I identify my sister's husband's brothers vehicle? No. No matter how hard I try, I couldn't tell you if he drives a van, truck, rocketship or what kind of condition it could be in.
There's missing info here for sure.
Click to expand...

It would actually be like you identifying your spouse's brothers vehicle. Your brother-in-laws vehicle.
 
otto said:
Absolutely. If someone that owed me money declared bankruptcy, I'd probably offer to help ... ask what I could do to ease the financial strain. If I then heard that they were retiring to a condo they purchased in Mexico, and that they would be splitting their time between that vacation property and a home in Edmonton, I would not be happy.
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I agree with this... whether or not the properties belong to them or not, DG could of been under the impression that they do. This every well could of been the boiling point for his anger towards them. I could see anyone feeling a bit of resentment towards them if this was the case. (not that most people would act on it) but I think that is why he finally did what he had been fantasizing about for years and could be why he finally acted out what he had been thinking about for so long....
 
If DG was at the same Thanksgiving dinner I am going to assume his truck was parked there. Plus this is family that lives in the same general area. I would imagine that DG's sister knows her brothers truck that he presumably has had for several years.
 
 
ABro said:
You make a lot of negative assumptions about them.

I'd like to see some proof KL even went bankrupt. I'm not convinced it hasn't been misreported. (ETA: proof provided)

It would be hard to find an entrepreneur in AL's field, who hadn't been involved in lawsuits.

There is no proof he did anything incorrect with regard to DG and the patent.

ETA: I find her bankruptcy strange, but it may be irrelevant.
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"Both Alvin and Kathryn Liknes had declared bankruptcy in the past; Alvin in 1994, and Kathryn in 2012.

Kathryn Liknes was a licensed real estate agent in Calgary, although the Real Estate Council of Alberta said she had not been practising as a realtor for two years."

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...in-bid-to-find-him-his-wife-and-his-grandson/

"Winter Petroleum, a junior gas company owned by Liknes, went bankrupt near the end of June — just days before the family went missing."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calga...rt-final-search-of-liknes-home-ends-1.2705634
 
ABro said:
Also, in the article you linked y'day for the KL bankruptcy, there was no source given for her bankruptcy. I've always found that alleged bankruptcy very strange.

It's quite normal for small oil and gas companies to go bust and be enmeshed in multiple lawsuits, but I don't understand how KL could have gone bankrupt. In Ontario, it's not easy to declare bankruptcy with a solvent spouse.
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When the house was sold on Dec 5,2013, only Alvin was on title.
 
Mr Liknes may have considered it petty that he omitted Garland's name from a patent design, but if someone "alters" a design, then that person does contribute to the inventive concept.

"Accordingly, an individual who contributes to the inventive concept may be a co-inventor without being the prime originator. However, if a person’s ingenuity is directed to verification rather than the original inventive concept, they are not considered co-inventors.

Similarly, by merely putting forward an idea, or suggestion, in terms of an objective or an end result one has not thereby invented anything which is necessarily validly patentable, and is therefore not an inventor."

http://patent-advice.ca/who-is-an-inventor-in-canadian-patent-law/

"According to a relative of Mr. Liknes, Mr. Garland altered one of the patents and believed he should have been included as one of the inventors."

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...glas-garland-over-patent-calgary-family-says/
 
My best friend lives in Airdrie, about 5 minutes from DG's parent's place - she said there has been a lot of helicopter activity today overhead
 
otto said:
Mr Liknes may have considered it petty that he omitted Garland's name from a patent design, but if someone "alters" a design, then that person does contribute to the inventive concept.

"Accordingly, an individual who contributes to the inventive concept may be a co-inventor without being the prime originator. However, if a person’s ingenuity is directed to verification rather than the original inventive concept, they are not considered co-inventors.

Similarly, by merely putting forward an idea, or suggestion, in terms of an objective or an end result one has not thereby invented anything which is necessarily validly patentable, and is therefore not an inventor."

http://patent-advice.ca/who-is-an-inventor-in-canadian-patent-law/

"According to a relative of Mr. Liknes, Mr. Garland altered one of the patents and believed he should have been included as one of the inventors."

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/0...glas-garland-over-patent-calgary-family-says/
Click to expand...
Altered is a reporter's wording though ... of a family member who also may have been second hand information. He may not have actually altered it ... maybe he merely gave some input. Sadly we can't say for sure at this point.
 
ilovepierre said:
AFAIK, rifles are a non-restricted firearm.
Farmers are allowed to have them in their possession without any special permits or anything.
Click to expand...

Awh, not so. Farmers have to take and pass the Canadian Firearms Safety Course with at least 80%, then apply for a Possession and Acquisition License (PAL). The RCMP does a background check before issuing a PAL.

If the farmer buys the rifle for hunting, then she or he needs to take the Hunters' Education Course and acquire an "Outdoors Card". The PAL is required when purchasing ammo.

If the applicant has a criminal record involving violence or threats, then they won't likely receive a PAL.
 
musicaljoke said:
Awh, not so. Farmers have to take and pass the Canadian Firearms Safety Course with at least 80%, then apply for a Possession and Acquisition License (PAL). The RCMP does a background check before issuing a PAL.

If the farmer buys the rifle for hunting, then she or he needs to take the Hunters' Education Course and acquire an "Outdoors Card". The PAL is required when purchasing ammo.

If the applicant has a criminal record involving violence or threats, then they won't likely receive a PAL.
Click to expand...

Yup...and....if there is a history of mental illness or domestic issues, your guns can be seized or...you will not get your PAL.
 
I found something kind of interesting re Winter Petroleum. There are meeting minutes from Mackenzie County available at www.mackenziecounty.com. In. The meeting minutes from June 12, 2012 it appears that AL appeared to discuss payment arrangements for Winter's municipal tax debt. A motion 12-06-392 to make an arrangement and report back. At the following meeting an update was tabled. Further, at the county's 2 meetings in June 2014 motions were made and carried "That administration proceeds with tax recovery options for Winter Petroleum as discussed."

So it appears that at one point AL was attempting to make arrangements to pay the municipal taxes owing .... perhaps there just wasn't enough money coming in to pay.

Sorry I couldn't do better with my links, I'm on my phone and at work so it's a bit difficult.
 
Tealgrove said:
Yup...and....if there is a history of mental illness or domestic issues, your guns can be seized or...you will not get your PAL.
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A friend of mine works for border services and one of the requirements is that they obtain a PAL before even starting training. She has adhd and had to go through a special psychological assessment to get the PAL because of the adhd.
 
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