Ebola outbreak - general thread #9

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faw720 said:
IMO, there's only one problem with the link above. I get a note that The Bangor Daily News requires me to sign in so they can track my physical location. So long as I am not in their state or a resident of that state, I don't believe they have a need to know my physical location. Anyway, SStar33, thanks for the hearing dates!
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I have my browser set so if they ask for a location I can deny which I did and I got in fine. I'm using Chrome.
 
Quote Originally Posted by DeDee

I remain perplexed that Nurse Nina Phem was capable of flying off to DC to give the President a hug after having contracted the deadly Ebola virus and recovered.

Originally Posted by Sonya610

I believe she was at a hospital in MD, so no flight to visit the White House on her release, just a drive.

SteveS said:
I am puzzled over what the issue is, with her being "capable" of traveling (by whatever means she might prefer) to the White House after she was healthy again.
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The issue is simple curiosity. Nina never "looked" ill. JMO There are pics of her in hospital isolation and she is smiling. Managing a deadly virus likely would have one nauseated, vomiting, w/ diarrhea & a fever that would cause weight loss. Being "capable" meant that she had the strength to do anything other than go home. NP held a news conference and visited the President upon discharge.

Nina's press conference after discharge from NIH in Maryland:

http://news.yahoo.com/look-inside-i...-topstories.html;_ylt=A0LEVraCAFVUJRIAvVsPxQt.

Nina has blood transfusion from Dr. Brantley:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...d-virus-america-beloved-dog-s-quarantine.html

Nina Pham cries while hospitalized in isolation in this video:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ebola-nurse-nina-pham-fair-condition-trip-dallas/story?id=26266763

Nina's good friend speaks out; claims they used texting and facetime; says Nina is a critical care nurse:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ebola-free-nurse-nina-pham-visits-president-obama/story?id=26406480

Nina's Press Conference. She believes "in the power of prayer" because so many people have been praying for her?

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/ebola-free-nurse-nina-pham-visits-president-obama/story?id=26406480

I want to know whose money purchased the pricey round trip ticket to America for Mr. Thomas Eric Duncan.


MOO
 
Detective Klimpt said:
MOO, I don't get the regular reminder that more people will get or die from flu than from Ebola. More people will <currently> die from cancer and heart attacks too. The point for me is that we (USA) can help prevent Ebola by taking proactive measures. We may never been able to completely prevent any disease, but even preventing one case makes it worth it. Me...I'm in favor of the visa ban on other than essential travel into and out of those countries. I'm in favor of stricter immigration policies for all countries, but that discussion belons in the political forums.

I am not personally fearful of contacting Ebola at this point in my life (for various reasons). I am more concerned about what will happen if multiple cases show up and we don't have enough hosptial personnel to care for these cases. I read yesterday just how many health care workers are currently monitoring something like 100 people that came in contact with Spencer. What if there are 3 Spencers in NYC? We don't have enough health care workers to do the job or that even want to do that job. Less and less people are going into the health care profession as it is. The high premiums on insurance for doctors is some of the reason. We need to encourage people to go into health care in this country, not in Africa. MOO
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I really understood the points in this post until the last sentence. I think that attitude is likely behind the push by some to quarantine only health care workers who have helped people in Africa, which, IMO, is punitive and illogical and meant, ultimately, to punish them for deciding to assist some foreign element. I find it xenophobic and nationalistic.

Further, nationalistic isolationist attitudes are naive, at best, IMO. We do not exist in a vacuum. We are all members of the human race, all equally deserving. An us against them attitude when it comes to lifeboat ethics can actually harm rather than help us. Because if no one is treating and helping prevent the spread of disease outside of our borders, how the heck can that have no impact on us? What happens in one part of the world affects the rest of it via a domino effect. Any massive, major shifts in populations, health statuses, poverty levels, etc., in one area, creates ripple effects that eventually impact the planet as a whole.

JudyBolton said:
People who survive can still have the virus in their system for weeks afterward.

The virus has been detected in semen up to 7 weeks after recovery, according to the WHO. But this is very rare, says Thomas Geisbert, PhD, a professor of microbiology and immunology at the University of Texas Medical Branch. Geisbert has been studying the Ebola virus since 1988.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/ebola-fever-virus-infection?page=2
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Ick. But does the presence mean they are contagious?

Zuri said:
As an RN, if I was exposed to Ebola, taking care of Ebola patients, I would not hesitate to self quarantine for 21 days. It is irresponsible not to, unless the tests are accurate and the results are negative. I don't know that I agree totally with KC 's firm stance, but playing into the fear mongering has got to have its limits. JMV
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I don't even know how that is supposed to work. First, does your salary get paid during quarantine? And how about your daily needs? Who meets those? Who shops for you?

More important, when does it begin? All the health care professionals currently treating Dr. Spencer, are they quarantined now, in the middle of treating him or after they stop treating him? And if during, do they create a quarantine hospital where workers and patients are isolated from the world? And if there are multiple patients, coming in on different days, is the quarantine of health care workers on-going? With the 21 day period resetting for each new arrival?

If so, no one is going to agree to treat these patients. And that's when the you know what is really going to hit the fan because lack of treatment is a huge factor in spread.

But if you're saying that the only health care workers who need to be quarantined are those who treated overseas, that is illogical and goes back, IMO, to wanting to punish anyone who dares to help foreigners. No one has been able to show a scientific basis for quarantining only those Western health care workers who worked overseas. Differentiating etween the two- Westerners who return from treating there and those treating here is, IMO, nonsensical. It has zero basis in science, fact or rationality.
 
jjenny said:
Ebola tests are not going to determine if someone will develop Ebola if they are done during the incubation period.
Tests come back negative until the patient builds up enough virus in their blood.
So someone who tests negative during incubation period could still come up with Ebola.
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Is there a false positive rate with these test?

ciao
 
jjenny said:
Right now we don't even have ZMapp to give to patients here in US, let alone ship anywhere. ZMapp is going to be very expensive treatment. It takes month to make a small amount. It also has to be kept frozen while in storage. So it's not going to be a solution for Africa (ever). I don't see us producing and shipping ZMapp at $100,000 a dose to African patients.
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Now that they can grow it in tobacco plants... Wouldn't how many plants to determine how much is made at one time?? To date $838 million had been donated to Africa, not to include the cost of our military. That's a lot of ZMapp.

I am more concerned with the potential for asymptomatic individuals bring able to spread the virus, but would love to know more about ZMapp being mass produced.
 
gitana1 said:
I really understood the points in this post until the last sentence. I think that attitude is likely behind the push by some to quarantine only health care workers who have helped people in Africa, which, IMO, is punitive and illogical and meant, ultimately, to punish them for deciding to assist some foreign element. I find it xenophobic and nationalistic.
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Gitana is referring to my post.
No, I think the quarantine should apply to HCW's treating patients in USA as well. How that can be accomplished is another problem for which I don't have solution. That's why I'm just an ordinary citizen not in a decision making position.

I read somewhere (I'll try to find it if anyone is interested) that HCW's treating Spencer are going home each night and that there is zero (yes, that's a quote) chance of spreading ebola to anyone. They may hug and kiss their loved ones. I don't recall if it was the NYC mayor or a hospital official that said that.

It makes no sense to me for each state to have their own policy. When it comes to quarantine, what applies to one should apply to another.

Lastly, as I've written before, I do not see what the big deal is to be quarantined such that it would discourage someone from serving in Africa.
 
FYI: It's always best to quote the original source.
What we know about transmission of the Ebola virus among humans

Ebola situation assessment - 6 October 2014

[...]

Not an airborne virus

Ebola virus disease is not an airborne infection. Airborne spread among humans implies inhalation of an infectious dose of virus from a suspended cloud of small dried droplets.

This mode of transmission has not been observed during extensive studies of the Ebola virus over several decades.

Common sense and observation tell us that spread of the virus via coughing or sneezing is rare, if it happens at all. Epidemiological data emerging from the outbreak are not consistent with the pattern of spread seen with airborne viruses, like those that cause measles and chickenpox, or the airborne bacterium that causes tuberculosis.

Theoretically, wet and bigger droplets from a heavily infected individual, who has respiratory symptoms caused by other conditions or who vomits violently, could transmit the virus &#8211; over a short distance &#8211; to another nearby person.

This could happen when virus-laden heavy droplets are directly propelled, by coughing or sneezing (which does not mean airborne transmission) onto the mucus membranes or skin with cuts or abrasions of another person.

(cont. at the link)

http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/ebola/06-october-2014/en/
 
"To get a test, states have to confer first with the CDC, something that would be done by the Oregon Public Health Division. Blood samples have to be packaged and shipped according to biohazard rules, which fall under the U.S. Department of Transportation. Couriers have to be trained in handling these shipments. For the Ebola virus, blood samples to be tripled packed for security and shipped in cold packs."


Let us hope the delivery persons for these packages are not like those shown in a recent news report who were caught on camera literally were throwing packages out of their vehicles onto the ground or onto a driveway!
 
Top medical experts studying the spread of Ebola say the public should expect more cases to emerge in the United States by year's end as infected people arrive here from West Africa, including American doctors and nurses returning from the hot zone and people fleeing from the deadly disease. THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

&#8220;I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s going to be a huge outbreak here, no,&#8221; said Dr. David Relman, a professor of infectious disease, microbiology and immunology at Stanford University&#8217;s medical school. &#8220;However, as best we can tell right now, it is quite possible that every major city will see at least a handful of cases.&#8221;

http://tbo.com/health/scientists-tr...Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=buffer
 
SStarr33 said:
“WE PREFER BURIAL, NOT CREMATION”

http://www.liberianobserver.com/news/“we-prefer-burial-not-cremation”

Mr. Suakollie told this reporter that their posture to censure the cremation is largely due to their tradition and customs as people of the Kpelle tribe.
“The ancestors will not accept their souls because they were burnt by fire and furthermore, it is not our teaching as Kpelle people” Mr. Suakollie stressed.
The Chief Elder further described cremation as dehumanizing and losing the value of the existing culture.
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Didn't we send them 5000 body bags in Sept?
 
JudyBolton said:
I wish someone would ask her this question:

"Assuming that you are correct and you do not personally present a public health hazard (because the science is settled on ebola, of course), what effect to you anticipate that your example will have when a REAL highly contagious virus comes along?"
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Of course, ebola IS in fact a "REAL highly contagious virus".

But I get your point. What we are seeing is a challenge to existing quarantine laws in our country. Perhaps it is a good thing this is being explored NOW. We live in a society where quarantine is unknown to the vast majority of our citizens. BUT quarantine was used for cases of polio up until a vaccine became available in 1955, so there are some still around who remember a quarantine sign being posted on the doors of their house.

My older sister developed polio in the mid 1940s. My mother told me their house was quarantined. I have no idea for how long. I was also told that my sister was in a special "disease hospital" for several months and that my parents could not visit with her other than to look at her through a glass window. She was treated using the "Sister Kenney" method of applying hot packs to and exercise of her paralyzed leg. Thankfully, she recovered fully.

Yes, quarantine interferes with individual rights. So do things regulated under Public Health Laws, like chlorination of our drinking water, health laws about proper installation of potable water piping systems and proper disposal of sewage.

We do need to get this settled at this time.

---------------------------------
This article describes a polio outbreak in Wytheville, Virginia in 1950:

"Wytheville became an epicenter of a polio epidemic &#8211; with over 180 cases and 17 deaths. "There were more polio cases than usual that first part of the summer," Emerson said.


"They started keeping track of it and realized that, for some reason, that we were getting an unusual number," Emerson added. "And it ended up that Wythe County had the largest number of cases, per capita, in the United States."


'Still Don't Know'


Places across town were quarantined in what was called "A Summer Without Children" in Wytheville.


"All the children were kept home that summer," Emerson said. "A lot of families, if they could, got the children out of town."


Emerson's family took her &#8211; then, just three years old &#8211; to nearby Claytor Lake.


In town, the municipal swimming pool was closed. "And people weren't shopping," Emerson said.


Representatives from the March of Dimes visited the town.


"And all the state health department people were here, trying to figure out what was causing it," Emerson said. "The local government was trying to do something, but nobody knew what to do."

http://www.tricities.com/news/article_c8443f42-0d2f-11e3-93e6-0019bb30f31a.html
 
AlwaysShocked said:
Of course, ebola IS in fact a "REAL highly contagious virus".

But I get your point. What we are seeing is a challenge to existing quarantine laws in our country. Perhaps it is a good thing this is being explored NOW. We live in a society where quarantine is unknown to the vast majority of our citizens. BUT quarantine was used for cases of polio up until a vaccine became available in 1955, so there are some still around who remember a quarantine sign being posted on the doors of their house.

My older sister developed polio in the mid 1940s. My mother told me their house was quarantined. I have no idea for how long. I was also told that my sister was in a special "disease hospital" for several months and that my parents could not visit with her other than to look at her through a glass window. She was treated using the "Sister Kenney" method of applying hot packs to and exercise of her paralyzed leg. Thankfully, she recovered fully.

Yes, quarantine interferes with individual rights. So do things regulated under Public Health Laws, like chlorination of our drinking water, health laws about proper installation of potable water piping systems and proper disposal of sewage.

We do need to get this settled at this time.

---------------------------------
This article describes a polio outbreak in Wytheville, Virginia in 1950:

"Wytheville became an epicenter of a polio epidemic – with over 180 cases and 17 deaths. "There were more polio cases than usual that first part of the summer," Emerson said.


"They started keeping track of it and realized that, for some reason, that we were getting an unusual number," Emerson added. "And it ended up that Wythe County had the largest number of cases, per capita, in the United States."


'Still Don't Know'


Places across town were quarantined in what was called "A Summer Without Children" in Wytheville.


"All the children were kept home that summer," Emerson said. "A lot of families, if they could, got the children out of town."


Emerson's family took her – then, just three years old – to nearby Claytor Lake.


In town, the municipal swimming pool was closed. "And people weren't shopping," Emerson said.


Representatives from the March of Dimes visited the town.


"And all the state health department people were here, trying to figure out what was causing it," Emerson said. "The local government was trying to do something, but nobody knew what to do."

http://www.tricities.com/news/article_c8443f42-0d2f-11e3-93e6-0019bb30f31a.html
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At the age of 6 in 1946 I was in much the same condition as your sister. My treatment was the same as hers. I was quarantined with 2 other polio children in a hospital ward. Thank God, none of the nurses or other hospital workers shunned us. We were considered unable to transmit the disease after we had been fever free for a few days. Thereafter we were allowed out of our ward & none of the other patients shunned us either. I don't know, perhaps people were kinder & more compassionate back then. Our parents were only allowed to visit twice a week. I became sick at school & had therefore exposed all my classmates. None of them shunned me either. They flooded me with cards, letters, & scrap books. I'm sure the other kids didn't realize the seriousness of what they had been exposed to but their parents certainly did & not a one did anything other than be totally supportive. My how times have changed.
 
popsicle said:
Top medical experts studying the spread of Ebola say the public should expect more cases to emerge in the United States by year's end as infected people arrive here from West Africa, including American doctors and nurses returning from the hot zone and people fleeing from the deadly disease. THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

&#8220;I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s going to be a huge outbreak here, no,&#8221; said Dr. David Relman, a professor of infectious disease, microbiology and immunology at Stanford University&#8217;s medical school. &#8220;However, as best we can tell right now, it is quite possible that every major city will see at least a handful of cases.&#8221;

http://tbo.com/health/scientists-tr...Social&utm_source=Twitter&utm_campaign=buffer
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And no quarantine for anyone, apparently. Unless they agree to it, they are free to run around.
 
jjenny said:
That's not really making a whole lot of sense, considering that two nurses did get infected right here in the major city in US.
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Exactly, makes no sense. Note that wording in the last pararagraph "struggled to explain". They struggled to explain why because it made no sense why.
 
AlwaysShocked said:
"To get a test, states have to confer first with the CDC, something that would be done by the Oregon Public Health Division. Blood samples have to be packaged and shipped according to biohazard rules, which fall under the U.S. Department of Transportation. Couriers have to be trained in handling these shipments. For the Ebola virus, blood samples to be tripled packed for security and shipped in cold packs."


Let us hope the delivery persons for these packages are not like those shown in a recent news report who were caught on camera literally were throwing packages out of their vehicles onto the ground or onto a driveway!
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Yes I would expect (and hope) such samples are sent by specialized couriers just for this purpose. But I don't know. When I sent a regular blood sample to a university for research they used DHL shippers. They do quite a bit of this kind of work. I was provided with a metal container with a good screw on lid, then it was enclosed in another well sealed package with dry ice provided. As you said triple packed sounds more secure. Even for that the university had detailed paperwork to be sent with the package.
 
Detective Klimpt said:
Exactly, makes no sense. Note that wording in the last pararagraph "struggled to explain". They struggled to explain why because it made no sense why.
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So what is supposed to happen when all those treating ebola in the US are quarantined & there is no one left to care for other ebola patients that might happen to pop up? HCW at Emory & in Kansas were not quarantined & apparently they are still well. It doesn't seem realistic to me that the public should expect or demand that they never be exposed to a communicable disease. If that were the case all of us would be quarantined at one point of time or another. We all have had communicable & potentially deadly diseases from time to time. Ebola certainly isn't the only disease that kills.
 
Detective Klimpt said:
That's not really making a whole lot of sense, considering that two nurses did get infected right here in the major city in US.
Click to expand...

Exactly, makes no sense. Note that wording in the last pararagraph "struggled to explain". They struggled to explain why because it made no sense why.
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IMO it's an implied admission that there really isn't any risk from someone without symptoms. The fear and outcry to lock them up for 21 days, when they have neither disease nor symptoms, never made any sense medically. And still doesn't.

No one has been catching ebola from people without symptoms, nor from anyone who has just had an initial symptom show up. In fact, so far the only way to really be at risk of catching this disease in the US appears to be if you're working in the hospital treating an EXTREMELY symptomatic ebola patient who's spewing fluids everywhere. Hundreds of others have theoretically been exposed, and none have caught anything.
 
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