WA - Unidentified Male: "Lyle Stevik", Grays Harbor, 17 Sept 2001 - #5

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Looking at the photos again, I cannot figure out the layout of the Inn then and what I am finding it to be today on Google Earth. The photos clearly show rooms #7 and #8 (where he first stayed) are in a stand alone building. Are those south next to the office and the long row of rooms are to the north of the office running east to west?

They bagged his hands so did they test for DNA under his fingernails? I am still curious about those injuries on his hands.

Also in the photo where they are holding his shirt up and showing his back there appears to be some skin discoloration around the waistband of his underwear and jeans. There is more discoloration (blanching) around the right flank area. Postmortem lividity? I thought where there was a pressure held against the skin, it prevented the pooling of blood? It was on the report the estimated time of death was Sunday PM so it would leave enough time for postmortem lividity to be at or near the maximum or their timing is way off. The photo showing his foot and part of his lower leg show no signs of blanching or lividity, but he was wearing socks and shoes. Still I would expect to see some since it would be the lowest point of his body from the knees down as they said his knees were not touching the floor when they first arrived. If someone knows about this, could you explain why it would be on his waist and not lower? Also it isn't on his arms or hands that I can tell. It just seems odd to me, but I don't understand quite all the science behind postmortem lividity and hanging subjects. Is it consistent with that or is it possible he had been in a different position for a period of time? Or was the reported estimate wrong about the TOD?

Is there a final autopsy report? If not, can we get it? It will include the toxicology results and everything.

Did anyone notice his room key with the black plastic key holder is broken? The key is laying on top of it and not attached. Certainly makes no sense why Lyle would take the key off the ring/holder. Ideas?
 
That motel is hidden from view from the main road. I wonder how he knew it was there? Is there a big sign on the highway? (I couldn't see one on google streetview.) Was he already familiar with the area? Did he plan ahead to get off the bus (if that is indeed how he arrived) at that specific spot? Was he supposed to meet someone there, who ended up not showing up? (e.g. a fellow partner in crime? a lover?) Why was he traveling so low profile? Was he trying to get up the nerve to drop in unexpectedly on someone? (e.g. a bio parent? an estranged family member?)

I know these aren't new questions...but they keep bouncing around in my head.
 
Just saw your post. Where is the sign located?
 
SeriouslySearching said:
How busy could that store ever have been at any given time? It wasn't on a very busy stretch of highway in that remote location. I think the business they got would have been from the occasional traveler/hiker/fisherman, the RV/mobile home park, the motel, and people living nearby. So under 30 customers a day perhaps? Unless people piled into the place when he was there, I suspect it would have been fairly easy to recall Lyle at the time.
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I checked and there are only 3 stores in that area, and one of the three is on the opposite side of the lake. Having lived in a tiny community that was literally one intersection out in the country, the one store we had stayed extremely busy. One of two stores at Nolin Lake back in the early 70's also stayed extremely busy. Not only are these the only convenient stores for the area, but they also become a bit of a social gathering place for locals. Now, that being said, I think Lyle should have stood out because of how emaciated he looked.

Anyone see that trash can with the trash in it and the bag laying in it? I was thinking maybe he tossed some stuff and maybe that bag was possibly left in there by the maid under the bag he may of tossed? I know a few hotels I have been to have left an extra bag in the trash cans.
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In the restaurants and medical facilities I have worked, it was always a common practice to leave either an extra bag at the bottom of the can, or a whole roll, often still attached to the bag being used so that it is easy to get it from the bottom when you are emptying the one being used. You just tear off the one you are taking out to the trash and the new one is in your hand for opening. Although it isn't foolproof, I would think that if that had been emptied by the maid, she would have opened a new bag instead of leaving that task to Lyle to do. Makes me think it was him who got rid of the previous bag.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
Did anyone notice the two stains on Lyle's shirt toward the bottom on the front? I wonder if those could still be tested?

My mind wandered back into a scenario where he was not alone in that room. Little things like that make me study every other detail in case this was only set up to look like a suicide. The injuries to his hands, the missing trash can liner in the bathroom (yes, I think the maid left the folded one underneath the one lining the can so it indicates it was taken out and not replaced), the notes, no wallet, no ATM/debit card, no bag, no clothing, no bus ticket, and no vehicle. I wish I were totally convinced this was as it seems, but something keeps nagging at me.
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I do agree with you. It was ruled as suicide. But something in my mind keeps telling me this might not be what it looks and maybe it was very well staged. Some main things are missing. But I guess LE and Medical did a good job but reading the papers some states look quite vague.

Regards from sunny Spain
 
No idea if these crimes had any influence on Lyle and his choice of area to commit suicide, but noting here, just in case.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060209&slug=detective09m

"Lane Youmans stood ankle-deep in mud and manure at a rural dairy barn. Cows bellowed to be milked. It was dark and so cold he could see his breath in the air.

It was 10 p.m. on March 17, 1999, and the Grays Harbor County sheriff's detective had been called out to investigate the brutal claw-hammer attack on a woman inside the barn. The woman survived, but the violence of the assault was evident hours later.

As Youmans studied the blood-spattered walls, a thought suddenly struck him: The crime scene was familiar.

"It was like the light just came on and it suddenly hit me that whoever had done this might also have killed Carol and Brooke," Youmans said, referring to two women who had been slain years earlier. "I felt I had seen that level of violence and rage before."

Youmans didn't know it at the time, but his stark recollection — a veteran cop's gut feeling he would later call an "epiphany" — would thrust him into a seven-year pursuit of David Gerard, who he believes is responsible for several slayings."
 
dotr said:
No idea if these crimes had any influence on Lyle and his choice of area to commit suicide, but noting here, just in case.

http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060209&slug=detective09m

"Lane Youmans stood ankle-deep in mud and manure at a rural dairy barn. Cows bellowed to be milked. It was dark and so cold he could see his breath in the air.

It was 10 p.m. on March 17, 1999, and the Grays Harbor County sheriff's detective had been called out to investigate the brutal claw-hammer attack on a woman inside the barn. The woman survived, but the violence of the assault was evident hours later.

As Youmans studied the blood-spattered walls, a thought suddenly struck him: The crime scene was familiar.

"It was like the light just came on and it suddenly hit me that whoever had done this might also have killed Carol and Brooke," Youmans said, referring to two women who had been slain years earlier. "I felt I had seen that level of violence and rage before."

Youmans didn't know it at the time, but his stark recollection — a veteran cop's gut feeling he would later call an "epiphany" — would thrust him into a seven-year pursuit of David Gerard, who he believes is responsible for several slayings."
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Very interesting read and kind of makes me feel silly for doubting CCM. However, even seasoned detectives can develop blinders when the evidence points in only one direction. It doesn't mean mistakes can't be made and a crime scene so void of evidence can't be misinterpreted.

They did find unknown DNA on one victim, but they have Lyle's DNA so would have found something there.

Glad you brought the article here because we never know where the break will come from to ID this man. Like happened in those cases, CCM kept looking and the pieces started to fall into place. That is exactly how the truth unfolds every time. The one missing piece to the puzzle aligns the rest and it falls like dominoes to the resolution.
 
Wasn't it Sunday when he told her he didn't want her to clean the room and to just leave towels? Maybe she felt he was rude about that exchange.
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Okay, I just found it in the case files. I must have been having a blonde or a senior moment. I must have read "Sunday morning" but the old brain was stuck on Saturday. Even when I read it the first time, I thought to myself "They must not do maid service on Sundays." :facepalm:
 
After giving it some thought, I guess LE doesn't need to be contacted about that post since really all it details are strange happenings later. If they wanted to interview the maid again (or for the first time)...she worked there for a year and they could have done it then. They don't care if she believes he was possibly murdered or they would have discussed it with her (but since I think it is possible...I care). I know normally it is the advice we give here about dealing with anyone who could be directly related to a crime/crime scene, but this was determined NOT to be a crime since they ruled it as suicide.

I guess I am so used to following the rule book, I wasn't thinking about this clearly. Let's do invite them both to come here and if Grays Harbor wants to revisit things...they can look her up.

Sooooo...excuse my ramblings once again. lol Just trying to do the right thing and I get overzealous sometimes.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
Is there a final autopsy report? If not, can we get it? It will include the toxicology results and everything.
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Nope. Autopsies are exempt from release per WA state law. Here's a list of the stuff redacted:
Statement (Redacted: Social Security Number)
Name search of DMV license (Redacted: Social Security Number)
Statement (Redacted: Social Security Number)
Statement (Redacted: Social Security Number)
Disposition Report (Removed: Interagency Memoranda)
Autopsy Report (Removed: Autopsy Records/Reports)
Autopsy/Pathology Findings (Removed: Autopsy Records/Reports)
Follow Up Report (Removed: Interagency Memoranda)
Officer's Notes (Removed: Interagency Memoranda)
Death Investigation Toxicology Report
Officer's Notes (Removed: Interagency Memoranda)
Dental Records (Removed: Autopsy Records/Reports)
Officer's Notes (Removed: Interagency Memoranda)
Law Enforcement Arrest (Removed: Criminal Records Privacy Act)
 
EugeneBYMCMB said:
Nope. Autopsies are exempt from release per WA state law. Here's a list of the stuff redacted:
Statement (Redacted: Social Security Number)
Name search of DMV license (Redacted: Social Security Number)
Statement (Redacted: Social Security Number)
Statement (Redacted: Social Security Number)
Disposition Report (Removed: Interagency Memoranda)
Autopsy Report (Removed: Autopsy Records/Reports)
Autopsy/Pathology Findings (Removed: Autopsy Records/Reports)
Follow Up Report (Removed: Interagency Memoranda)
Officer's Notes (Removed: Interagency Memoranda)
Death Investigation Toxicology Report
Officer's Notes (Removed: Interagency Memoranda)
Dental Records (Removed: Autopsy Records/Reports)
Officer's Notes (Removed: Interagency Memoranda)
Law Enforcement Arrest (Removed: Criminal Records Privacy Act)
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While I can understand the reasoning behind not releasing them...it would be quite interesting to find out what was actually noted about his condition and death. I am curious about the blanching and the discoloration for one and to see if they ran certain tests. Other states do release the information (at least the preliminary reports).
 
Well, I went to the Facebook page for the book You Must Remember This to look at all the people who had liked it. Nothing jumped out. I did note that the book is surprisingly popular among men from India. Since I've not read it, I am at a loss for a theory of why that may be. From reading the Amazon reviews (also looking for any reviews posted before mid 2001 that might raise a flag) it seems that most readers do not perceive it as a "chick book." It's pretty hard hitting and the men reviewing it often mentioned how they admired Oates for being able to create and speak for male characters as realistically as she does.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
Looking at the photos again, I cannot figure out the layout of the Inn then and what I am finding it to be today on Google Earth. The photos clearly show rooms #7 and #8 (where he first stayed) are in a stand alone building. Are those south next to the office and the long row of rooms are to the north of the office running east to west?

They bagged his hands so did they test for DNA under his fingernails? I am still curious about those injuries on his hands.

Also in the photo where they are holding his shirt up and showing his back there appears to be some skin discoloration around the waistband of his underwear and jeans. There is more discoloration (blanching) around the right flank area. Postmortem lividity? I thought where there was a pressure held against the skin, it prevented the pooling of blood? It was on the report the estimated time of death was Sunday PM so it would leave enough time for postmortem lividity to be at or near the maximum or their timing is way off. The photo showing his foot and part of his lower leg show no signs of blanching or lividity, but he was wearing socks and shoes. Still I would expect to see some since it would be the lowest point of his body from the knees down as they said his knees were not touching the floor when they first arrived. If someone knows about this, could you explain why it would be on his waist and not lower? Also it isn't on his arms or hands that I can tell. It just seems odd to me, but I don't understand quite all the science behind postmortem lividity and hanging subjects. Is it consistent with that or is it possible he had been in a different position for a period of time? Or was the reported estimate wrong about the TOD?

Is there a final autopsy report? If not, can we get it? It will include the toxicology results and everything.

Did anyone notice his room key with the black plastic key holder is broken? The key is laying on top of it and not attached. Certainly makes no sense why Lyle would take the key off the ring/holder. Ideas?
Click to expand...

Blood is already pooling very shortly after death - even before an hour has passed, I think.

An idea that comes to mind is that he could have been anemic. I think anemia would make ALL lividity difficult to see, but I suppose it could also create different patterns and keep the limbs looking paler than the torso.

Another possibility is myxedema, which tends to occur in the face/neck/limbs and "constrict" the dermis with mucin(which might potentially keep blood from settling in those areas)...it could happen over time in someone who doesn't eat properly(and, therefore, has a low-functioning thyroid). Something like this could also explain why he was so pale despite having(possibly) Native features, and why his face was so much "plumper" than his weight would suggest.

Of course, someone could have tampered with the scene, and moved him to/from the bed or a chair(bringing blood away from his limbs and toward the trunk regardless of health issues), but this doesn't look like a murder or conspiracy to me.
 
I agree that it should be LE who is contacting any witnesses, even now.

If any of the hotel staff at the time would want to come here and join the discussion, though, that would probably be very helpful(and they're definitely welcome).

Even if there are no new facts to give, they're still in a better position to speculate about what happened than we are.
 
image.jpg

On my tablet, but I did my best to illustrate how i believe the motel is laid out. Note the fence to the left (West) of rooms 7 & 8 and the shadows from two cedar trees in front. These can be seen in a photo from the imgur album previously shared here. From what I understand, Lyle Stevik's suicide occurred in room 5; in the imgur album, you can see an image where he placed the bed spread over the window and outside the open door there is parking directly in front.

Also note where Google maps shows ATMs and bus stops in very close proximity.
 
SeriouslySearching said:
Also in the photo where they are holding his shirt up and showing his back there appears to be some skin discoloration around the waistband of his underwear and jeans. There is more discoloration (blanching) around the right flank area. Postmortem lividity? I thought where there was a pressure held against the skin, it prevented the pooling of blood? It was on the report the estimated time of death was Sunday PM so it would leave enough time for postmortem lividity to be at or near the maximum or their timing is way off. The photo showing his foot and part of his lower leg show no signs of blanching or lividity, but he was wearing socks and shoes. Still I would expect to see some since it would be the lowest point of his body from the knees down as they said his knees were not touching the floor when they first arrived. If someone knows about this, could you explain why it would be on his waist and not lower? Also it isn't on his arms or hands that I can tell. It just seems odd to me, but I don't understand quite all the science behind postmortem lividity and hanging subjects. Is it consistent with that or is it possible he had been in a different position for a period of time? Or was the reported estimate wrong about the TOD?
Click to expand...

This link might answer your questions (there are some differences noted in post-mortem partial hanging presentation but Warning graphic images are present at the top of this site. I'll break the link so no one accidentally clicks it and gets a shock.

http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/asphyxia/ hanging
 
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