ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #2

[teeandcee]

Where're Deorr's cowboy boots then? They are oversized and definitely would have fallen off if a cougar took him.

Do we know for certain he had them on when he vanished? Wasn't he supposedly about to nap? I dunno, just speculating since we know so little.

 

[Trident]

:slap:

I have too and I agree. Sure, there have only been less than 30 CONFIRMED attacks by cougars, but what about all the mysterious disappearances? I just don't think it's nearly as rare as we're lead to believe.

We were posting at the same time.

 

[SleuthMom]

About the time line, I watched the parent's interview again and the dad clearly states they did not leave the campsite after 1:00.

 

[Cardinal47]

The thing with this area is that it has a small town feel. People sometimes put relationship before "business". I am not saying this is the case at all, but where we are coming up empty on everything else I think the investigation should branch out in other directions.

Just kind of curious. Which directions do you think need to be explored? TIA

 

[SleuthMom]

Wasn't he supposedly about to nap? I dunno, just speculating since we know so little.

Interesting that you ask this because I just finished watching the interview again and the dad says that Deorr was about to nap and they decided to go and do a little exploring and he (Deorr) would be good with grandpa. Is there an article at all where it states that the parents told great-grandpa to watch Deorr or they just assumed he would watch him because he was there and that's why they decided to go and explore? This could explain why the great-grandfather thought Deorr was with them because he wasn't told anything at all?

 

[Trident]

I'm off to take a nap, just in case anyone thinks I went missing.

OH, and one thing I want to add before I go - perhaps dogs will quit following a scent if cougar scent is added to the scene. I'm not sure, but I believe some dogs are afraid of the big cats and will not go there.

MOO

 

[Cardinal47]

I've done most of my camping in the east, especially NJ. The park rangers really know their turf and what dangers are out there at any given time. The policy with them is to check in with them before you go out into the forest. 1. So they know you're out there and when you're expected back. 2. So they can advise you of any conditions that could effect your plans.

***Always let someone know of your plans before going out in the wild***

I know little about camping in the west or the wildlife there. I just hope the little boy is okay, but the longer he's missing, the less the chances are for a good outcome.

I wonder if there were any dangers in that area they were camping in. If asked I wonder what the rangers would have told them?

You are right. The people working there know everything and are probably campers and hikers and know that land like the back of their hand.

It would be interesting for some reporter to interview one of the local rangers.

Most of us are aware of some things that could happen like chiggers and snake bites but honestly if Cougars and Wolves were attacking campers wouldn't there be warning signs or newspaper articles.

 

[teeandcee]

Interesting that you ask this because I just finished watching the interview again and the dad says that Deorr was about to nap and they decided to go and do a little exploring and he (Deorr) would be good with grandpa. Is there an article at all where it states that the parents told great-grandpa to watch Deorr or they just assumed he would watch him because he was there and that's why they decided to go and explore? This could explain why the great-grandfather thought Deorr was with them because he wasn't told anything at all?

I'm suppose there's an article somewhere detailing this, but I'm terrible about keeping up with that stuff. I was confused and thought it all happened July 4 so.....!!

 

[IDTater]

SABBM

Has anyone tried to find it on msm ?
I thought he didn't call for a while because his phone was down to one bar and he was afraid it might get cut off ?
:moo:

To my knowledge it hasn't been released. He said he traveled about a half-mile down the road to get better service. During mom's 911 call, about midway in, dad calls in. It could be that once they realize that they have both parents on the phone, they ended the second call (dad's) quickly and so there may not be much content. I think it would be interesting to hear it, regardless.

 

[Cardinal47]

Interesting that you ask this because I just finished watching the interview again and the dad says that Deorr was about to nap and they decided to go and do a little exploring and he (Deorr) would be good with grandpa. Is there an article at all where it states that the parents told great-grandpa to watch Deorr or they just assumed he would watch him because he was there and that's why they decided to go and explore? This could explain why the great-grandfather thought Deorr was with them because he wasn't told anything at all?

The more I watch and listen the more I think DeOrr was asleep in the truck coming back from the store and they left him thinking he would sleep for a while. That's why nobody was 'watching'.

 

[LietKynes]

Do we know for sure the cowboy boots were oversized? Do we know for sure he was wearing the cowboy boots? Do we know for sure he was even at the campsite?

SABBM

That's what I posted earlier... who were the last people to have seen DeOrr outside of his relatives ?
Not trying to sleuth improperly ; just curious.
I am assuming (again) that LE has already checked this out. But it's difficult when they (LE) aren't saying anything about who else saw DeOrr.

I, for one, had a hard time believing Ember Graham's dad's cousin when she claimed to have seen Ember alive and well after the convenience store trip. That was my opinion.

:moo:

 

[ClaireNC]

To my knowledge it hasn't been released. He said he traveled about a half-mile down the road to get better service. During mom's 911 call, about midway in, dad calls in. It could be that once they realize that they have both parents on the phone, they ended the second call (dad's) quickly and so there may not be much content. I think it would be interesting to hear it, regardless.

I think you are right about them ending Dad's call when they realized that the dispatcher was already talking to Mom. That was the impression I got when I listened to the recording. Otherwise, none of the MSM articles have even mentioned the second call.

 

[ninij9]

You know, in regards to a cougar attack and how rare it is and all, I think it's more likely that a cougar carried him off than a human stranger abduction.

I tend to forget another fact as well, we always think in the known time frame of when he was last seen, until it was noticed he was missing and then figure how far he got in that time. But what we forget is that he could have and probably did survive many hours after he was noticed missing. Each hour becoming more and more lost. He could have been on the move for 3 of 4 hours. He maybe moved for an hour, stopped, cried, napped and took off again. He could be much further away than we think is all I'm trying to say. I still say he's in the creek somewhere though. But I really have dismissed stranger abduction at this juncture.


Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[slashkiss]

I find it odd that LE keeps stressing that the Mother and Father are not suspected of anything right now but has not once mentioned the grandfather and friend who were reported to be the last two people to see Deorr. Perhaps that is telling?

 

[ClaireNC]

Seems like it's a good time to post an update:

Here are some links for those just joining the thread.

DeOrr Kunz media links:
-Article first interview with Grandma: Grandma of missing 2-year-old: “He Just Vanished” Updated at 6:40 pm, July 12th, 2015 http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/grandma-of-missing-2-year-old-he-just-vanished/

-Full unedited interview with parents from July 13: UNEDITED INTERVIEW: Parents of Missing Idaho Toddler Speak Out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mwM1oG3z358

-Short version of interview with parents from July 13: Heartbroken Parents of Missing 2-year-old: “We’ll find you son. Updated at 2:51 pm, July 13th, 2015 http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/heartbroken-parents-of-missing-2-year-old-well-find-you-son/

-911 call from mom, full version: Mother’s 911 phone call released — “My 2-year-old son, we can’t find him…” http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/mothers-911-phone-call-released-my-2-year-old-son-we-cant-find-him/

-Article and video of Campground, July 15: A closer look: the campground where Deorr Kunz disappeared Updated at 5:56 pm, July 15th, 2015 http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/a-closer-look-the-campground-where-deorr-kunz-disappeared/

-Update article July 19, Timeline: http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/

-Video of Nancy Grace show. Deorr Kunz search featured on Nancy Grace http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-search-featured-on-nancy-grace/

-Transcript of Nancy Grace show from July 15: http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/1507/15/ng.01.html

-HLN article, sonar brought in, interview with grandpa Kunz, cremain dumping 7/17: Family fears missing 2-year-old was abducted http://www.hlntv.com/article/2015/07/17/deorr-kunz-missing-family-fear-abducted


-PEOPLE article: “Mom of Toddler Who Vanished While Camping Won't Put Down His Baby Blanket, Boy's Grandfather Tells PEOPLE” http://www.people.com/article/missing-boy-idaho-grandfather-speaks

-KMVT update July 17: “The search for a missing toddler continues in remote Eastern Idaho” http://www.kmvt.com/content/news/The-search-for-a-missing-toddler-countinues-in-remote-Eastern-Idaho-316310011.html

-Daily Mail article: “Search continues for toddler who vanished from Idaho campsite last week as police reveal chance he was abducted is 'remote'” Read more: [url]http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3165519/Police-continue-search-toddler-disappeared-Idaho-campsite.html#ixzz3gGbYYn00
[/URL]

-KTVB article and video, day 5 of search, interview with aunt - 4 minute video: “Search for missing boy leads back to reservoir” http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/15/missing-boy-deorr-search-dogs/30209081/

-KTVB 7/17 update video: http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-deorr-lemhi-no-trace/30262877/

-KTVB 7/17 p.m. update sonar robot being used: “Sonar robot being used in search for missing East Idaho toddler” http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/17/sonar-robot-being-used-in-search-for-missing-east-idaho-toddler/30319703/


-KTVB video interview with grandfather: Missing toddler's grandfather believes boy was abducted http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/17/missing-toddlers-grandfather-believes-boy-was-abducted/30321903/

-KTVB video: Former sheriff offers perspective on Lemhi County search http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/16/search-challenges-sheriff/30259235/

-July 21 update from KTVB. Drone being brought in: http://www.ktvb.com/story/news/local/idaho/2015/07/21/lemhi-county-sheriffs-office-calling-in-air-support/30466883/

-July 20 update about wolf den, cremated remains, more. http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/07/20/searches-reservoir-wolf-den-yield-no-clues-in-hunt-for-idaho-toddler/

-July 21 update, new details. http://www.localnews8.com/news/new-details-on-search-for-deorr-kunz-jr/34281340


Sheriff's Office:
Lemhi County Sheriff’s Office Facebook page. Press releases: https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice?fref=nf

Sheriff’s report to Commissioners: http://lemhiweb.com/content/search-recap


Maps of the area:
BYO’s maps: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?285131-ID-Deorr-Kunz-Jr-2-Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015&p=11934108#post11934108

Google map with relevant locations: https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?usp=sharing&mid=zW6CBVbxpdYA.klXz-SrbHNBI

Bing Map from this post: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?285131-ID-Deorr-Kunz-Jr-2-Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015&p=11934743#post11934743

https://www.bing.com/maps/default.aspx?encType=1&where1=44.58087%2c%20-113.46596&cp=44.5808715820313~-113.465957641602&qpvt=44.58087%2c+-113.46596&FORM=MIRE#Y3A9cmR4MmRyNWpiNDV5Jmx2bD0xNSZzdHk9YiZxPTQ0LjU4MDg3JTJDJTIwLTExMy40NjU5Ng==

Snoopster's maps: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?285131-ID-Deorr-Kunz-Jr-2-Timber-Creek-Campground-10-July-2015&p=11936318#post11936318

Here is a slightly "tilted" view of the camp area to give a sense of terrain. We think their campsite is where the truck and camper is parked in this view: https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Ti...m2!3m1!1s0x5357b2face15292b:0x50f57ef867884c6

Here's an even more tilted, longer range view https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Ti...m2!3m1!1s0x5357b2face15292b:0x50f57ef867884c6

Other:
Help Find DeOrr Kunz Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/FindDeorrKunz?fref=ts

Please let me know if I missed any important links.

 

[Hatfield]

Thanks for the welcome! I keep scouring the local stuff hoping to find something useful but 99% of it is just cruel speculation by outsiders. It seems as though those who are close to the case are keeping things pretty locked down. Initially some of the family members were responding or offering snippets of info but I haven't seen anything from them in quite some time. It doesn't even seem like friends or friends of friends or anyone else who would have any insider info are talking about it, at least on social media.

The issue that is stuck in my head is the "EMT" bag referenced during the interview. They brought it up in the context of rumors circulating on social media but I hadn't seen anything about it before and the only reference to it now is trying to figure out what they meant in the interview. I went back and watched the interview and the person off camera brought it up twice, the second time saying something along the lines of "we really need to address that," but ultimately, it was never directly addressed.

I've read the theories here about the bag but it just doesn't make sense still. Some speculate that as a health care professional, mom had a use for it. I'm an RN with ER experience. I have put together a pretty badass first aid kid but I call it it that - a first aid kit. I understand more advanced options are out there that are more along the lines of what might be referred to as an "EMT" bag but the people I know who have them have first responder experience or are hardcore outdoorsman who have participated in some specialized training.

The family does not appear to be the type to have what I would call an EMT bag. It could be an issue of nomenclature but I just want to know a little bit more about it, especially since the off-camera person seemed to think it was important!!

Catching up.

Thanks for providing local insight. It really does help.

It does sound like the EMT bag had some significance. I kept hearing on the interview the guy in back but didnt quite make out what he was saying. Its interesting to me that he brought up the EMT bag.

Thanks again for anything you can share. It is wonderful when we have local people joining in the discussions on a case.

 

[gitana1]

Here's how I would sort them:

1. Fell and drowned in the water (creek or reservoir)
2. Wandered off and fell into a mineshaft or some kind of hole
3. Stranger abduction (possibility includes Sasquatch)
4. Wandered off and succumbed to the elements
5. Wandered off and got taken by a large animal (bear, lion, wolf)
6. any other scenario

I would sort the this way:
1. Fell and drowned in the water (creek or reservoir) tied with wandered off and got taken by a large animal (bear, lion, wolf)
2. Wandered off and succumbed to the elements
3. Wandered off and fell into a mineshaft or some kind of hole
4. Any other scenario
5. Stranger abduction (possibility includes Sasquatch)

My reason is that, if I'm reading correctly, scents of the child did not stray far from the campsite, or circled back. I think that can happen if a child is carried off by an animal. Tracking dogs can make mistakes. That can also happen if a child falls into water and gets carried away by the water or submerged.

Also, if a car carried the child off from the campsite, then someone would've heard a vehicle, at the campsite, where the child's scent was last smelled.

I do not believe in family-involved foul play. The parents seem credible and it would be quite a conspiracy for everyone at that campsite to be involved. They don't seem to be questionable people with questionable pasts.

 

[SleuthMom]

Can anyone please explain this for me? Maybe through a news article, etc. It is my understanding that the parents thought great-grandpa was watching little Deorr and great-grandpa thought little Deorr was with the parents but then the dad said great-grandpa turned his head for a minute and the child vanished?

 

[ClaireNC]

Catching up.

Thanks for providing local insight. It really does help.

It does sound like the EMT bag had some significance. I kept hearing on the interview the guy in back but didnt quite make out what he was saying. Its interesting to me that he brought up the EMT bag.

Thanks again for anything you can share. It is wonderful when we have local people joining in the discussions on a case.

For clarification. The EMT bag was brought up in the interview by a female that was sitting off-camera during the interview, not by the man doing the interview. It appears as if there were family members off-camera and it was one of them that brought up the bag.

 

[loveamystery]

It's the great-grandfather and friend. Perhaps they are just too old to be suspects. Or the "friend" is actually a licensed caregiver and unlikely to be involved in a conspiracy.

I always take my dog when I go camping. He wouldn't be any help though because he can't even find his toy when I toss it across the room. So it's IF they had a dog, and what kind of breed of dog he is, if he could be any help.

Is there anymore info on the area wildlife? I read a comment about a mountain lion carrying off their prey and burying it for later. Could Deorr have gone off following a bear? OMG Did you see the pictures of one napping in someone's yard yesterday. They are so cute! A little child might not know enough to be afraid of a wolf either.