Possible Victim: Shannan Gilbert

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Yep, his address on Lee Court is located in (tiny) upscale Society Hill. You can't google street view it because it's a gated community, but it's all manicured lawns and very nicely kept rowhouse condos. Very small, so yeah I'd imagine they at the very least knew of each other and likely had dealers in common. It's not like Brown didn't blend in well in his cookie cutter genteel looking neighborhood or anything.

http://www.society-hill.com/forsale.html

lol.
 
Marble

Do you know anything about the 101 Park Ave Hoboken address??
 
LoyalSleuth said:
Has anyone in this thread heard that SG toxicology report came back completely negative to any illegal drugs?
Meaning she waa not high the night she went missing.

Sent from my SGH-I747M using Tapatalk
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Considering that there were no systems or body left to test by the time her body was found, the negative tests do not mean that she was not high the night she died.
 
Hi fred&edna, I do not. It's residential condo so he may have rented/owned there at some point, especially since he'd opened a kebab house in a very expensive location (but then again, what isn't in Hoboken?) not too far away. He doesn't show up on recent tax records anywhere in Hoboken now though.
http://www.nj.com/hobokennow/index.ssf/2009/07/the_kebab_house_in_hoboken_to.html

(opened in 2007, this is the old website with Ruis's email: https://web.archive.org/web/20080325052032/http://www.thekebabhouse.com/ )

P.s.s. Here's a list of other domain names our man Ruis registered.

Happy Mining !

edited again to add: our man is busy behind bars, these have all been updated/added recently but still under his name with his email addy. Interesting, must be his business partners (whoever they may be) doing this for/with him.

http://domainbigdata.com/name/new world commerce
 
What if.... SG wasn't a GB4 victim at all? Imagine the possibilities...
 
marble said:
Hi fred&edna, I do not. It's residential condo so he may have rented/owned there at some point, especially since he'd opened a kebab house in a very expensive location (but then again, what isn't in Hoboken?) not too far away. He doesn't show up on recent tax records anywhere in Hoboken now though.
http://www.nj.com/hobokennow/index.ssf/2009/07/the_kebab_house_in_hoboken_to.html

(opened in 2007, this is the old website with Ruis's email: https://web.archive.org/web/20080325052032/http://www.thekebabhouse.com/ )

P.s.s. Here's a list of other domain names our man Ruis registered.

Happy Mining !

edited again to add: our man is busy behind bars, these have all been updated/added recently but still under his name with his email addy. Interesting, must be his business partners (whoever they may be) doing this for/with him.

http://domainbigdata.com/name/new world commerce
Click to expand...

I'm at work... sneaking a WS peek ;)

Ruis is out of prison... he served minimal time.

I'll be excavating the additional info later!
 
EpiVox444 said:
What if.... SG wasn't a GB4 victim at all? Imagine the possibilities...
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I think a lot of us here are on the fence as to whether or not her death was related. JS. (I lean toward it being unrelated myself) But in the meantime, no harm in trying to see if there are connections to be made. It's not like my time is better spent elsewhere ;)
 
Yeah, I'm being kind of lazy about it.. others have stated more clearly why she isn't likely to be one of the serial killer's victims.... Perhaps I'll gather my thoughts better and post a longer argument why I think her case is tangential and not directly related to the GB4. But I only commented because most of the posters of late seem to hinge all their arguments on the fact that her case is related.
 
EpiVox444 said:
Yeah, I'm being kind of lazy about it.. others have stated more clearly why she isn't likely to be one of the serial killer's victims.... Perhaps I'll gather my thoughts better and post a longer argument why I think her case is tangential and not directly related to the GB4. But I only commented because most of the posters of late seem to hinge all their arguments on the fact that her case is related.
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The main reason I lean toward her death being unrelated is the location that her body was found in.
I just can't see the same person who killed the main/connected LISK 4 placing the body that far away and into the overgrowth from the road given where the other bodies were placed and the relative difficulty of leaving her way deeper in there instead.

That's not to say I don't think there's lots of suspicious things regarding her death and all of the events leading up to it, or that her death being unrelated to the others means it was also due to "natural causes".

Again, this is me just spitballing here, but that's my gut feeling at this point.
Also, since most of her known escorting connections reside in my own back yard I'm naturally (or unnaturally?) inclined to research those further just to see if there's any "there" there.
 
marble said:
The main reason I lean toward her death being unrelated is the location that her body was found in.
I just can't see the same person who killed the main/connected LISK 4 placing the body that far away and into the overgrowth from the road given where the other bodies were placed and the relative difficulty of leaving her way deeper in there instead.

That's not to say I don't think there's lots of suspicious things regarding her death and all of the events leading up to it, or that her death being unrelated to the others means it was also due to "natural causes".

Again, this is me just spitballing here, but that's my gut feeling at this point.
Also, since most of her known escorting connections reside in my own back yard I'm naturally (or unnaturally?) inclined to research those further just to see if there's any "there" there.
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The possible difference with the GB4 murders and SG's case is the GB4 appear to have been killed and dumped in a controlled basis. In SG's case the best laid plans of man may have went astray. She may have upset the plan by running away. If the other 4 were killed inside of a house the problem of hiding and loading the body for disposal is not as urgent as following a gal into the hinterlands, killing her, packing her up for disposal. Just leave her there. Keep in mind the other 4 bodies were found by an 'accident' no one could have anticipated.

When you die after going to someone's home for the purpose of sex and you are a prostitute and then run out of the house screaming for help then there is nothing 'natural' about that, IMO.
 
marble said:
The main reason I lean toward her death being unrelated is the location that her body was found in.
I just can't see the same person who killed the main/connected LISK 4 placing the body that far away and into the overgrowth from the road given where the other bodies were placed and the relative difficulty of leaving her way deeper in there instead.
Click to expand...

This was exacly what's kept me hopping back and fourth on is she or isn't she related to the gb4.
But I think that sinse SG made the 911 call. And GC had made it clear he called LE as well. That if she is connected then the killer would of known better then to leave her with the other two girls at the time because then it'd be clear where she went running from, what she was screaming, and where she ended up. The case would of been solved and it would of been crystle clear who put her there.

I go back and forth a lot and am always coming up with crazy theorys. Sometimes I think life has a funny way of making things come to light. And I agree with another poster who posted something along the lines that its a little bittersweet SG death lead to the other girls. Maybe in some crazy way that's all SG death was.

But still. The cell phone pings. The escorts. Long island. Running screaming they are tying to kill me from a johns house. Its all to much. I wish the killer would just turn him self in because this mystery is killin me. I want to know.
 
hawkshaw said:
The possible difference with the GB4 murders and SG's case is the GB4 appear to have been killed and dumped in a controlled basis. In SG's case the best laid plans of man may have went astray. She may have upset the plan by running away. If the other 4 were killed inside of a house the problem of hiding and loading the body for disposal is not as urgent as following a gal into the hinterlands, killing her, packing her up for disposal. Just leave her there. Keep in mind the other 4 bodies were found by an 'accident' no one could have anticipated.

When you die after going to someone's home for the purpose of sex and you are a prostitute and then run out of the house screaming for help then there is nothing 'natural' about that, IMO.
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Okay so this is basically what I was trying to say in my last post. I just had a hard time finding the words I was looking for.
 
You really can't ignore the fact that 5 gals were found dead in that area. From the little I know about serial killers is they just don't dump their victim's bodies all in one place. They really do it other than killing them in one place and let the bodies lay where they are. By nature they are secretive and paranoid.

This Brewer guy should be number 1 on the hit-parade and so what does SCPD - they eliminate him post haste as a suspect. I am not saying he even did one, what I am suggesting if he didn't do it then he has a pretty good idea who did.

They were also quick to come up with an inconclusive finding for the death of SG. And, yet, PC Dormer said it was probably a death caused by exposure, or even drowning. The ME doesn't have a cause of death and this fool makes such a stupid statement. Why do you think they did that? Maybe that is what really happened but when you are charged with investigating this case and have no definitive COD, you keep your mouth shut.

They have another highly publicized case in Suffolk County, the shooting of the Oheka Castle owner Gary Melius. The cops are working overtime trying to pin it on two people close to Melius. Spota made sure to jump right into that one, too. But he was a little bit too late as some of the information had already been revealed in a civil suit.

Always jumping in when it should be left alone. In that case they had 5 different units involved in the case. Everyone was reporting to their own commanders and the man charged with the case, or should have been charged with the case can't get direct answers without those people reporting it to others. He wound up retiring for no apparent reason - IMO.

In Gilgo they had a very honest man running the show. He knew once Bellone got in he would retire. Spota made sure of that and put his own man in charge of the case. No slip ups here.

That same man had my son in law's case. When he heard Burke's neighbor accuse my son in law of committing high crimes he duly reported it and investigated it. My information is he found it not credible and the witness was a liar. Time for Tom Spota to get another person to run that case and ordered them to make a case out of a lie if they had to....
 
I dunno hawkshaw. I have to say that you make really good points in your last two posts above, especially with regards to why Shannan's body could have ended up in a way that didn't fit the pattern

However, in regards to body placement for where serial killers leave their victims, off the top of my head I can think lots and lots of cases that have been in the news over the last few years where the victims are all placed very close to each other: the Meridian Connecticut case, the New Bedford/Fall River case, Atlantic City (placement is one reason lots of people think those are related to the LISK), West Mesa, etc. (and these are all just off the top of my head).

I guess it depends on the type of serial killer.
 
Marble,

You make a good point about the bodies being placed so close together. I read one article that suggested that the four were buried somewhere initially and them moved later. I had always assumed they were killed somewhere and immediately dumped on GB.
 
hawkshaw said:
You really can't ignore the fact that 5 gals were found dead in that area. From the little I know about serial killers is they just don't dump their victim's bodies all in one place. They really do it other than killing them in one place and let the bodies lay where they are. By nature they are secretive and paranoid.
Click to expand...

If proximity is paramount, then it makes sense to attribute ALL of the remains found along Ocean Parkway to LISK. After all, the remains of the unidentified Asian male, Jessica Taylor, and the unidentified mother/daughter were found closer to those of Costello, Barthelemy, Brainard-Barnes and Waterman than Shannan Gilbert's were.

It seems like there are a few schools of thought when it comes to what's going on with the remains along Ocean Parkway and in Manorville.

School #1: One suspect killed Costello, Barthelemy, Brainard-Barnes and Waterman.

School #2: One suspect killed Costello, Barthelemy, Brainard-Barnes, Waterman and Gilbert.

School #3: One suspect killed Costello, Barthelemy, Brainard-Barnes, Waterman, Gilbert and some combination of other victims found along Ocean Parkway.

School #4: One suspect killed Costello, Barthelemy, Brainard-Barnes, Waterman, Gilbert, some combination of other victims found along Ocean Parkway and some combination of other victims found in Manorville.

Does that strike you as being about right?
 
For what it's worth, I'm pretty solidly in school #1.

That said, I'm open to the idea that LISK was also responsible for the death of Shannan Gilbert. I'm just not 100%.
 
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