Netflix to stream new documentary on Steven Avery - #3

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Yep.
That smile on his face, future plans he made with his new love. ALL of it.
CLEARLY showed he wanted nothing more, than to go back " home ":facepalm:
Thank you for your response regarding EDTA being exposed to sunlight and microorganisms.

And that's a good question, "Why would SA put her in the vehicle? Especially since the prosecutor emphasized TH was killed in the garage, or trailer, depending on who was on trial at the moment, and then SA and BD carried her to the fire pit or fire barrel by the house and cremated her. So why put her in the vehicle at all? To carry her 10 feet to the burn barrel or fire pit?

So the two accused clean up the garage to hide some of the evidence but leave some of the other evidence in the garage and house and the vehicle and park the vehicle on the property and "hide" it nearby with a few branches, pallets and debris so no one could find it? Sounds logical to me. :pullhair:

I know, he did all that because he didn't want the $36 million dollars he had sued for. Or wait, I know, he wanted to spend the rest of his life in prison. He had become institutionalized and wanted to go back "home." The following recent article even claims that crazy notion.

http://www.postcrescent.com/story/news/local/steven-avery/2016/01/07/dassey-avery-longed-prison/78438780/

It's pretty obvious that he was framed and whoever did it, didn't think it through when they planted the overkill of evidence that just didn't fit the crime scene.
 
Wait wait wait
To be clear
According to Brendan, or according to Brendan " telling police? "
Thanks
Allegedly, and according to Brendan, she was put in the back of her vehicle because the first plan was to dump her body in the man-made body of water/pond that was somewhere on the property, but then SA changed his mind and decided to burn her instead.
 
Got a source for this one?

Just found this EDTA discussion on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3z0ymt/edta_test_should_edta_have_been_successfully/

Arvizu testified Friday it's possible the blood came from the vial.
"So can you conclude then that any of the … three Rav4 stains that were examined by the FBI could not have come from the blood tube that contained Mr. Avery's blood?" Buting asked.
"I can't conclude that," she said.
Arvizu said she couldn't tell from the FBI's method whether its results were valid or its detection limit was set low enough. She said it's possible the FBI just didn't see EDTA because there was a small concentration of it.
"Just because EDTA is not detected by the laboratory doesn't mean that blood sample came from somebody actively bleeding on that spot," she said.
On cross-examination, LeBeau admitted the FBI created a new protocol for this case and validated it in about two weeks. LeBeau said that the only other time the FBI used the test was during the O.J. Simpson trial.
Arvizu said LeBeau incorrectly used the protocol to exclude the presence of EDTA. But she admitted on cross examination that the FBI's protocol could detect EDTA in the vial and bloodstains.
 
Just found this EDTA discussion on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3z0ymt/edta_test_should_edta_have_been_successfully/

Arvizu testified Friday it's possible the blood came from the vial.
"So can you conclude then that any of the … three Rav4 stains that were examined by the FBI could not have come from the blood tube that contained Mr. Avery's blood?" Buting asked.
"I can't conclude that," she said.
Arvizu said she couldn't tell from the FBI's method whether its results were valid or its detection limit was set low enough. She said it's possible the FBI just didn't see EDTA because there was a small concentration of it.
"Just because EDTA is not detected by the laboratory doesn't mean that blood sample came from somebody actively bleeding on that spot," she said.
On cross-examination, LeBeau admitted the FBI created a new protocol for this case and validated it in about two weeks. LeBeau said that the only other time the FBI used the test was during the O.J. Simpson trial.
Arvizu said LeBeau incorrectly used the protocol to exclude the presence of EDTA. But she admitted on cross examination that the FBI's protocol could detect EDTA in the vial and bloodstains.

Backround in bioengineering...they would need a control which had similar exposure. Don't believe they could have accomplished this. Too many variables.
 
Is she the blonde that was on the stand? I watched this as soon as it aired, have MS and can't remember names well ={

I believe it is dexter.... I don't have MS and can't remember names well, so np ;-)
 
They could have validated the FBI's EDTA procedure and stability of EDTA in the SA evidence sample vial by simply including two additional samples (Controls!):

1. A small sample of blood from the stored evidence vial (answers whether EDTA was still measurable in sample)
2. A fresh blood sample (from SA or anyone else really) in the same type of vacutainer tube with EDTA (would approximate original EDTA level and ensure method was sufficiently sensitive to detect that level)



QUOTE=pleasestandby;12285664]Just found this EDTA discussion on Reddit.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3z0ymt/edta_test_should_edta_have_been_successfully/

Arvizu testified Friday it's possible the blood came from the vial.
"So can you conclude then that any of the … three Rav4 stains that were examined by the FBI could not have come from the blood tube that contained Mr. Avery's blood?" Buting asked.
"I can't conclude that," she said.
Arvizu said she couldn't tell from the FBI's method whether its results were valid or its detection limit was set low enough. She said it's possible the FBI just didn't see EDTA because there was a small concentration of it.
"Just because EDTA is not detected by the laboratory doesn't mean that blood sample came from somebody actively bleeding on that spot," she said.
On cross-examination, LeBeau admitted the FBI created a new protocol for this case and validated it in about two weeks. LeBeau said that the only other time the FBI used the test was during the O.J. Simpson trial.
Arvizu said LeBeau incorrectly used the protocol to exclude the presence of EDTA. But she admitted on cross examination that the FBI's protocol could detect EDTA in the vial and bloodstains.[/QUOTE]




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Avery trial exhibits - DNA analysis reports by Sherry Culhane

https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMur...avery_trial_exhibits_dna_analysis_reports_by/

someone has paid for and posted some exhibits.

Oh wow, fantastic find. It's interesting to note people are dedicated enough to pay for trial exhibits/records. Noted - male dna found in quarry, not AA, BD or SA.

I thought the bullet fragments would have blood staining/residue on it? Maybe it does, but not visible to the naked eye? I suppose travelling at a great velocity the dna available would be minimal?
 
Oh wow, fantastic find. It's interesting to note people are dedicated enough to pay for trial exhibits/records. Noted - male dna found in quarry, not AA, BD or SA.

I thought the bullet fragments would have blood staining/residue on it? Maybe it does, but not visible to the naked eye? I suppose travelling at a great velocity the dna available would be minimal?

I'm not sure. And to be honest, these are hard to read LOL I get the summaries and the excludes, includes, which I guess is the most important. I just posted on another thread about this.... if they took DNA from everyone that lives on that property, why do we not see the analysis/comparisons with those as well. example: CA, EA, ST?
 
I feel the whole EDTA testing was just a CYA deal. No explanation was ever given for why that evidence kit was tampered with and it SO clearly was. Why?
I've never heard so much as the tiniest reason that kit was in that condition. No one did it I guess.

Oh *snap*! I just thought of this; I betcha Steve Avery did it himself as part of his master plan to make it look like he was being framed! /s
 
"What do you think of BD interviews being cut?"


I feel like when I watch some of the BD interviews, it seems extremely clear the detectives are leading him and coercing him. But, on the other hand, I'm not sure how much information he may have given them before the camera started rolling...or before the filmmakers decided to start the interrogation footage. And it is A LOT of footage. I think I read somewhere that the jury was told, "this is 4 hours, it may be boring, but we think you need to see it for context"...something along those lines.

I know the filmmakers had to cut this stuff down to a manageable, digestible amount. But, I still think these were manipulated moments as well. Apart from the interviews with the detectives, I recall reading a transcript of BD talking to his mom from jail. Some of this was in the doc. When I read the actual transcript, I saw the part were BD says his uncle SA had molested him. Hmmmm, I noticed this was not in the doc AT ALL. They had to make choices to make this film and every time they did, it would alwasys fit the narrative of "make SA as likeable as possible and the prosecution as ugly as possible". They achieved their goal no doubt.

Now BD I wholeheartedly believe was involved in the murder or at the very least the post-murder cleanup. I'm never gonna buy that he got bleach on his jeans cleaning SA's garage on Halloween night. How random is that? Someone said they saw a transcript where it was stated they were cleaning up a lawnmower spill. Hmmm, hinky meter going off. Really, lawnmower spill the night TH goes missing? No way.

Btw, in that phone call with his mother, BD says he did those things to Teresa Halbach, at one point saying "not all of it". Also telling in the conversation with his mom was when he said the detectives lied and said he sold crack. He was adamant that he never sold crack. This comment was within a few sentences of him saying he helped with the murder. Such genuine outrage over them accusing him of being a crack dealer yet he didn't seem to be as outrage about them calling him a murderer? Why? Because he was definitely involved.
 
These are my exact feelings. In the film, when Colburn was being questioned, you can visibly see where they had cut the film and put in something else to make it look like he is some type of monster. This, to me, was something that I just couldn't handle. If someone wants to present the actual truth, why do you have to HIDE certain things? It was obvious to me what they were trying to do.

I also just couldn't put aside his past behavior. I'm sorry, but a person who can do something like he did to an innocent animal, could easily do that to another human being. As well, I saw an interview with the rape victim, Penny Beerntsen, after the fact and after SA had spent many years in prison. He had the nerve to call her and ask her to buy him a house. She didn't, of course. But, the thing that shocked me the most is that she said (I can't remember her exact words and I also can't find the interview again), that she never could get over the bad feeling she had whenever she saw Steven or was in a room with him. She said that Gregory Allen, (the man who was eventually convicted of the rape), could come into a room and sit next to her and it wouldn't phase her. That, to me, was very telling. Perhaps they should re-do the original DNA from this original case.

Sounds to me like this woman is very bad judge of character. SA gives her the creeps even though he never touched her but she isn't phased by the man who attacked her? And so what if he asked her to buy him a house or maybe help him out. She was a wealthy woman who identifies him as her attacker sending him to prison for a crime he didn't commit. She's in her cozy house this whole time living her life and after 18 years in prison he's living in an ice shelter. Fine if she didn't want to help him out. Whatever. But how dare this woman talk trash about him. She is the last person who should say a word. To me it simply shows that was is ingrained in ones head can be very difficult to overcome. I'd be paying his rent and bringing him casseroles for life if I were her.


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"What do you think of BD interviews being cut?"


I feel like when I watch some of the BD interviews, it seems extremely clear the detectives are leading him and coercing him. But, on the other hand, I'm not sure how much information he may have given them before the camera started rolling...or before the filmmakers decided to start the interrogation footage. And it is A LOT of footage. I think I read somewhere that the jury was told, "this is 4 hours, it may be boring, but we think you need to see it for context"...something along those lines.

I know the filmmakers had to cut this stuff down to a manageable, digestible amount. But, I still think these were manipulated moments as well. Apart from the interviews with the detectives, I recall reading a transcript of BD talking to his mom from jail. Some of this was in the doc. When I read the actual transcript, I saw the part were BD says his uncle SA had molested him. Hmmmm, I noticed this was not in the doc AT ALL. They had to make choices to make this film and every time they did, it would alwasys fit the narrative of "make SA as likeable as possible and the prosecution as ugly as possible". They achieved their goal no doubt.

Now BD I wholeheartedly believe was involved in the murder or at the very least the post-murder cleanup. I'm never gonna buy that he got bleach on his jeans cleaning SA's garage on Halloween night. How random is that? Someone said they saw a transcript where it was stated they were cleaning up a lawnmower spill. Hmmm, hinky meter going off. Really, lawnmower spill the night TH goes missing? No way.

Btw, in that phone call with his mother, BD says he did those things to Teresa Halbach, at one point saying "not all of it". Also telling in the conversation with his mom was when he said the detectives lied and said he sold crack. He was adamant that he never sold crack. This comment was within a few sentences of him saying he helped with the murder. Such genuine outrage over them accusing him of being a crack dealer yet he didn't seem to be as outrage about them calling him a murderer? Why? Because he was definitely involved.

BBM - interesting ...so your hinky meter goes off about the bleach on the jeans but NOT about there being NO BLOOD anywhere in the messy, dusty, garage - not even when they jack-hammered the concrete floor?
 
RSBM

"What do you think of BD interviews being cut?"

I know the filmmakers had to cut this stuff down to a manageable, digestible amount. But, I still think these were manipulated moments as well. Apart from the interviews with the detectives, I recall reading a transcript of BD talking to his mom from jail. Some of this was in the doc. When I read the actual transcript, I saw the part were BD says his uncle SA had molested him. Hmmmm, I noticed this was not in the doc AT ALL. They had to make choices to make this film and every time they did, it would alwasys fit the narrative of "make SA as likeable as possible and the prosecution as ugly as possible". They achieved their goal no doubt.

I would like to add the transcript for the Fassbender interview with BD, unfortunately, there is too much traffic or it's been disabled. I don't believe there was molestation, note the investigators forcing the issue with BD. SA was in prison for 18 yrs, any of this rough housing BD described would have occurred when BD was over 14 yrs older and bigger than SA.

I don't know if SA has molested anyone, particularly Jessica's sister, Teresa, mentioned by BD in his taped call to his mother. Who knows, we can't go by BD's accounts.

So my thoughts, Brendan Dassey is not a reliable witness, he doesn't understand the questions asked of him. He will admit to anything, that is the truth.

excerpt of phone call with his mother and interview with Fassbender regarding the topic of molestation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3yvd79/did_steven_avery_molested_brendan_dassey/
 
I'm not convinced he did it ( not even close ) and I'm not crazy.
Before I put in my two pennies, I condone NO criminal activity whatsoever. AND, I am a LOVER of ALL animals. ( 3 cats, 2 dogs, 2 rats, 1 Bearded Dragon, 2 Ball Pythons, 1 Boa, 1 Turtle. Very large house ) I have rescued cats since I was small. I would use my allowance money to walk to the corner store, buy cans of cat food and piss off the neighbors. I would randomly set it out on decks for the strays. I would constantly hear " Don't leave it here! We don't want those cats thinking they live HERE! "

SA has owned up to and admitted everything he has done. Maybe not to YOUR standards. OR the public. Maybe he didn't WORD things the way YOU felt he should, or MYSELF. I honestly do not think he has the VOCABULARY to ARTICULATE the way most would like.
I DO think , He WAS young and we aren't all and were NOT all raised the same.
Some folks are prim and proper, some are loud and crazy. Some families, even now days, sex is taboo at age 40(to discuss) and beyond. Some families ( Ours, our best friends, who are Christian folks on the outside ) can discuss 50 Shades at Thanksgiving dinner. My husband grabs my tampons from the store on a regular basis. ( along with other adult stuff)
Some families, wouldn't think to swipe their cat with their foot CAREFULLY if it were under their feet in front of them. Or swat their doggie on the behind if he ate their favorite slippers. (These acts would be considered cruel.)
My Grandma, ( on the other hand ) was raised in the hills of Alabama and one of my girlfriends here in bfe MI.
BOTH of them only know animals as food, NOT pets. JUST to slaughter.
My Grandma, especially, has never had compassion toward animals. Ever. I NEVER understood it and always RESENTED her for it, until I got older.
I STILL HATE it, to be honest. I do though, understand it and do not blame her for it.
I remember her giving a " stray " antifreeze once. This affected me for a long time.

A couple of kids I grew up with tortured 2 cats. Kittens. They didn't survive. I saw it happen. My mom is the one that called police. Neither of them grew up to be murderers. We were all teens. One put a poor kittie in a pillowcase and smashed it. The other drowned it in a ditch. I can still see it's wet head. It brings me to tears. Sorry. I never wanted to tell that story. Second time I have, though. I'm going to sum it up by saying both of these MONSTER A$$HOLE kids, are productive ( successful & happy ) members of society. I must say though, I wonder if that ever bothered them :sigh: It sure does me.

I KNOW SA has been less than compliant. However;
He had an ALTERCATION with Stachowski, he didn't KILL her. He threatened his EX wife, he didn't KILL her. He threatened Sandra Morris, again, he did NOT KILL her.
He indeed has a terrible moral compass and is NOT very smart LACKING in the COMMON SENSE department. This does NOT make someone a MURDERER, it just DOESN'T.
It makes them ignorant, not very compassionate. Based on his reactions before prison likely to have some sort of mental illness/low IQ perhaps? Alcoholism in his late teens early twenties? ( speculating )
THIS way of thinking is part of keeping an OPEN mind. If I would have posted in my 20's I would have been THE MOST NARROWED MINDED person here. I wouldn't have considered HALF the evidence presented because his "past crimes" would have told me everything I needed to know, pffft.
Couple of things. 20, can be quite young and everyone MATURES on their own watch, not ours.
NOT everyone is raised the same. Has the same communication, or coping skills.
Just because SA's father thinks he's an Angel, or has spoken for him in interviews, doesn't mean SA thinks of himself as a gem, or anything of the sort.

I can interpret the Sandra Morris incident just as LE & she describe ( although she is proven to REALLY not like him, AND has had conflicting testimony compared to her deposition ) OR I can keep an open mind, look at both/multiple sides and think " this seems like a case of a young man with very poor communication/coping skills, NO/LOW intelligence, who seems to have been bullied had rumors spread about him in a small town for some time now, and had had enough. He wanted to scare her. Obviously she didn't care that WHAT she was saying, true or not. Then runs to her hubby, a Sheriff.

The " research " conducted on any sociopath behavior, psychopath behavior, animal cruelty, sexual violence and the like is always ongoing. It is never 100% accurate. I really hope everyone realizes this.
These behaviors can be observed, yes.
Take into consideration ( among many, many factors ) the two things that first enter my mind;
The person OBSERVING ( We all, OBVIOUSLY, perceive things differently. ( including behaviors )
The person ( Psychopath/Sociopath/Sexual Deviant ) People DO lie.
Wrt SA's trial.

I am pretty sure the primary reason SA did not testify is that, had he done so, it would have opened the door to the prosecution, as they could have challenged is claim of innocence by raising his past "bad acts." An atty may, of course, correct me on this, but I'm pretty sure that's why he did not testify.

That said, one thing I notice is that SA never takes responsibility for his past "bad acts." The guy has all sorts of reasons. They weren't that big of a deal, what he did was dumb but he was a kid, and so on an so forth.

For example, with regard to cruelty to animals claim? In the docuseries, SA glosses over the cat torture (see episode one transcript):

Steven: Another mistake I did... I had a bunch of friends over, and we were fooling around with the cat... and, I don't know, they were kind of negging it on and...

Court Document (dated 1982) highlights: "a cat", "on fire", "party to the crime of cruelty to animal".

Steven: I tossed him over the fire... and he lit up. You know, it was the family cat. I was young and stupid and hanging around with the wrong people.

Young and stupid? The guy was 20 when that occurred. They doused the poor cat with oil and gasoline. What did he think would happen when they threw the poor thing over the fire? Moreover, he talks about it like it was "no big deal."

Then, there's the bit involving running Sandra Morris off the road and threatening her with a shotgun:

The bad blood thickened between Avery and the Manitowoc County Sheriff’s Department in January 1985, when Avery ran a deputy’s wife off the road at gunpoint and tried to force her into his car. The woman, Sandra Morris, was Avery’s cousin and a friend of Manitowoc County Deputy Sheriff Judy Dvorak. Morris had complained to police that Avery had exposed himself in his front yard on several occasions when she drove past his house. Avery let the woman go when she told him her infant daughter was alone in her car.

But hey, it wasn't his fault! Or so says his father (see episode one transcript):

Sandy Morris and Bill Morris, they were always picking on Stevie, more or less, you know. Saying stuff about Steve that... that wasn't true.

During prison and in response to the divorce filed by his then wife, he allegedly sent her threatening letters:

But the couple divorced in 1988 after Lori filed for a separation, and Avery lost contact with his kids. The divorce ended acrimoniously. According to prison records, Avery sent threatening letters to his wife.

“I hate you, you got your divorce now you will pay for it,” he wrote in an undated letter mailed to Lori from prison. In another letter, he wrote, “If you don’t brang up my kids I will kill you. I promis. Ha. Ha.” -- (see 2006, Chandler C, "Blood Simple," Milwaukee Magazine)

Moreover, he continued to engage in, at the very least, aggressive behavior after he was released from prison in 2003 for his false conviction.

In September 2004, sheriff deputies arrested Avery for violating a disorderly conduct ordinance after an altercation with Stachowski. The court ordered him to stay away from the woman for 72 hours and pay a fine of $243. -- (see 2006, Chandler C, "Blood Simple," Milwaukee Magazine)


After he is released for his overturned conviction, he has the audacity to contact the victim who misidentified him and ask her to buy him a house?

This is a guy who seems to have no moral compass whatsoever. Now, while I do think some of the evidence was planted, I certainly do not think it was planted with malice. I think LEOs truly believe they had their man, and simply wanted to ensure the charges stuck. And, I really get that.

And, as I have noted before, while I do think he murdered Ms. Halbach, i think he murdered her and burned her body elsewhere. Did he then bring her remains back to his property? I'm on the fence, with that bit. Still need to finish reading Brendan's trial transcripts. Bc, I do suspect Brendan may very well have helped conceal evidence and was potentially, at the very least guilty of assisting in a coverup.

And finally, as an aside. While some may believe animal torture is not necessarily relevant. That is, the view that an animal torturer does not a killer make. Research, which is an ongoing process, seems to be identifying correlations between animal cruelty and sexual violence. (see 2002, Gleyzer R, Felthous AR, & Holzer III CE, "Animal Cruelty and Psychiatric Disorders," The Journal of the American Academy of Psychiatry and the Law)

Just some food for thought.
 
I see just what you mean. What a CROCK of CRAP!!!
I'm sorry but LE has torn this family apart! I don't care how weird they are. They are their own family.
Maybe folks think YOURS, MINE and everyone else's are a bunch of FREAKS too!!!
UGH. SAD.
Nothing short of sad.
RSBM



I would like to add the transcript for the Fassbender interview with BD, unfortunately, there is too much traffic or it's been disabled. I don't believe there was molestation, note the investigators forcing the issue with BD. SA was in prison for 18 yrs, any of this rough housing BD described would have occurred when BD was over 14 yrs older and bigger than SA.

I don't know if SA has molested anyone, particularly Jessica's sister, Teresa, mentioned by BD in his taped call to his mother. Who knows, we can't go by BD's accounts.

So my thoughts, Brendan Dassey is not a reliable witness, he doesn't understand the questions asked of him. He will admit to anything, that is the truth.

excerpt of phone call with his mother and interview with Fassbender regarding the topic of molestation.
https://www.reddit.com/r/MakingaMurderer/comments/3yvd79/did_steven_avery_molested_brendan_dassey/
 
http://legacy.spoofcard.com/faq


What is SpoofCard?
SpoofCard offers the ability to change what someone sees on their caller ID display when they receive a phone call. Simply dial SpoofCard's toll free number or local access number in your country and then enter your PIN. You'll then be prompted to enter the destination number followed by the phone number to appear on caller ID. It's that easy!


What number will show up on the phone bill of the person whom I call?
Whatever number you enter as the spoof number will show up on the bill of the person you called. They won't ever see your actual phone number!


Could the 4:35 phone call be made from one of these "Spoof Cards"?
 
Lol. I wouldn't snitch on my family member until after they received the 36 million dollars. Lol

But seriously. How can you not notice the burning barrel near your house. Idk. He could be guilty. Jmo
 
Right!!!
i feel the whole edta testing was just a cya deal. No explanation was ever given for why that evidence kit was tampered with and it so clearly was. Why?
I've never heard so much as the tiniest reason that kit was in that condition. No one did it i guess.

Oh *snap*! I just thought of this; i betcha steve avery did it himself as part of his master plan to make it look like he was being framed! /s
 
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