GUILTY UK - Sadie Hartley, 60, murdered, Helmshore, Lancs, 14 Jan 2016 #1

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had forgotten this episode, the way he minimised his status with Sadie ( see BIB) , puts IJ in a very bad light again
in October 2013, after Williams and Mr Johnston began their relationship he travelled to Ecuador with Ms Hartley for a 22-day trip. But he continued to exchange sexually explicit messages with Williams while he was away and the day after he arrived back they had sex.

The situation became even more bizarre when, in December 2013, Ms Hartley and Mr Johnston went on a French skiing holiday and stayed at the same hotel as Williams and her 'sugar Daddy' partner, Mr Hardwick, 75.
During the trial Gordon Cole QC, defending Williams, asked Mr Johnston: "Were you and Sarah playing footsie under the table?"

"No. Electronic flirting," the witness replied.

Mr Cole then read a text from Williams: "Loved foot cuddling with you under the table last night."

"I stand corrected," Mr Johnston replied, adding: "At the time I was not in a relationship with Sadie. I was away with Sadie. I had not made any commitments."

Mr Johnston said his and Williams' relationship was 'purely sex' at this point.
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http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/sadie-hartley-murder-women-guilty-11758239

he claims not to have been back in a reln with Sadie until 2014! ( he had moved in with sadie by Nov 2014. IDK exactly when his house sale went through)
 
cottonweaver said:
So if it's true that as a 13 yr old she was "seeing" a married man, could it put another twist on the financial hold she had over Hardiwck , if it was him??
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It is quite a coincidence isn't it, that at age 13, she is seeing a married man, connected to the stables, and they * meet* ( for want of a better word ) in a horse box.

And then at 17 she meets DH at the stables and they have week ends away, in his horse box.

Would be interesting to know what year DH first went to the stables.
 
I can tell you now it wasn't David that supposedly abducted her. It didn't happen, she lied, she accused someone of it, I don't know if she told the police but she certainly told friends. It was a big fat lie all of it
 
Can also imagine kit doing the zombie trance with the police.
 
krmh said:
I can tell you now it wasn't David that supposedly abducted her. It didn't happen, she lied, she accused someone of it, I don't know if she told the police but she certainly told friends. It was a big fat lie all of it
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I think I'm more wondering whether SW was in a relationship with DH when she was 13. Or do you mean the person she accused was the person she was possibly in a relationship with?
 
I still don't understand how someone could be stupid enough to write a real life murder plot in a diary, she really is depriving a village somewhere of its idiot.
 
Just lmao too, at some of the things being said elsewhere.

"Why on earth could someone get obsessed with him, he looks like Nosferatu."

"If we're going down the looks route, did you see the women who did it? Hardly a pair of lookers. The one on the right makes Gollum look like a catch."
 
Cherwell said:
Just lmao too, at some of the things being said elsewhere.

"Why on earth could someone get obsessed with him, he looks like Nosferatu."

"If we're going down the looks route, did you see the women who did it? Hardly a pair of lookers. The one on the right makes Gollum look like a catch."
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LOL _ I 'm just reading those in DM and trio "looks like the village of the damned "or "The hills have eyes!" and a few saying he is a narcissist or Plug from Bash Street Kids ( 70's comic)

Kmh - if you come back, I meant was SW having a "relationship " with DH at the time of the fake abduction? ie. later on it is another hold she has over him as due to her age then, it would be child abuse and he could get in a lot of trouble, even retrospectively.


BTW most of the reports say he was giving £320 a week - that's an awful lot of cash ( previously I thought it was 320 a month)
 
I just wanted to thank those of you who worked hard following and transcribing this trial.

I felt compelled to come on and say a couple of things:

1) I utterly despise IJ. His only interest is for himself - all that whining about Sadie "not providing" for him is sickening. He has also lied quite outrageously about the nature of his relationship with Williams in my view. Loathsome individual

2) I think there was more to the relationship between Williams and Walshe than just friendship. Something about the holiday snaps together and what Walshe was prepared to do make me think that even if they were not in a physical relationship, that is what Kit wanted. Didn't she give Williams money too? Just another older person ripe for exploitation (both financial and practical). Not saying I think Kit would have been a delight without Williams - but Williams made great use of her vile personality traits as well as her money.

It is very unlikely that Walshe will ever be free and I sincerely hope that the same goes for Williams. However, I expect prison to provide Williams with a whole new arena within which to manipulate, start relationships and spread poison.
 
some photos of a teenaged SW here
profile of her, "deep-seated desire for a more affluent lifestyle"
and

A reconstruction was filmed in and around Wirral Riding Centre where Williams frequently rode. A national appeal was aired on ITV’s Granada Tonight. But Williams’s attacker was never caught.
Back at the stables where she spent nearly all her free time, tongues wagged. Even as a teenager, Williams had a reputation for tall tales and exaggeration. Had she made the story up?

‘It didn’t really make sense,’ said a former friend of Williams who also rode at the stables.
‘She told police she had screamed when he took her but during the reconstruction, everybody on the yard heard the scream. In the countryside everything carries.’
Another friend added: ‘Everyone at the stables thought she had made it up to impress a bloke at the yard that she was obsessed with. She fancied him and did it for attention.’
Nick Ward, the 52-year-old riding centre owner, agrees: ‘It seemed like a load of rubbish, to be honest. That’s what everyone thought at the time. A policeman said there was something not right about it. We weren’t experts but we thought she knew who it was that took her and then covered it up as obviously she was under age. And if you look at the pattern after, it starts to fall into place.’
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and some on Kit, it's stress-related alopecia and "‘I often wondered if she was bordering on Asperger’s or on the autistic spectrum. It was as if she didn’t have any social skills.’ On the foam up the exhaust KW had diaried "‘Will show Sarah what a fine friend I am,’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-story-kidnapped-just-13.html#ixzz4HdX2Ms6z
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
another DM one which sheds some light on the affair during 2014
Williams spent the first four months of 2014 in the ski resort of Whistler, Canada, with her OAP lover Hardwick but continued to text Johnston, telling him that she was in ‘an absolute state’.
While Johnston argued that he had never promised her anything and therefore she had no right to complain, she lashed out of him for humiliating her.
‘The last time you looked at me it was like I was something you’d found on the bottom of your shoe. I’m not cheap and nasty. You shouldn’t have treated me like that.
‘I’m just an inconvenience to you, which makes me feel even more worthless than I did before.
‘Anyway, you wanted rid of me and now you’ve got it.’
Her arrival in the UK that April coincided with Johnston’s departure to teach at a summer camp in Switzerland.
He returned at the end of August and just a week or so later, despite not having seen him for more than half a year, Williams sent Sadie the letter she hoped would destroy their relationship once and for all.
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So it's true they weren't actually in the same country for 8 months of 2014

re contact Dec - Jan 2016
The steamy texts continued through December and into January when Johnston flew off to Zurich for a ski trip which Sadie had been due to join later.
On January 4, he and Williams discussed meeting up when he returned.
‘Ok, but don’t shout at me or drop me in it,’ he texted.
Click to expand...


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...isons-ignited-jealous-rage.html#ixzz4Hdb4423n
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
cottonweaver said:
some photos of a teenaged SW here
profile of her, "deep-seated desire for a more affluent lifestyle"
and




and some on Kit, it's stress-related alopecia and "‘I often wondered if she was bordering on Asperger’s or on the autistic spectrum. It was as if she didn’t have any social skills.’ On the foam up the exhaust KW had diaried "‘Will show Sarah what a fine friend I am,’


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ed-story-kidnapped-just-13.html#ixzz4HdX2Ms6z
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
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Well you can clearly see her left eye was a lot worse from those two photos of her as a teenager, it was virtually closed. I read recently on here that it was the cause of her being bullied at school.

I've always wondered what's up with her eyebrows, they seem permanently in a state of surprise in the photos. I think she must have had surgery, to pull up her eye.

It was suggested that's why she went for older men.

I also noted that she was living with her mother after her parents had divorced. Another reason for this pattern of going after unavailable men, if her father had 'left her'.

Not excusing - just looking at possible cause of her 13 yr old attention seeking behaviour with an older man, and her abduction fantasy. I think a kid like her would revel in all the attention she got from police and at school too.
 
Tortoise said:
Well you can clearly see her left eye was a lot worse from those two photos of her as a teenager, it was virtually closed. I read recently on here that it was the cause of her being bullied at school.

I've always wondered what's up with her eyebrows, they seem permanently in a state of surprise in the photos. I think she must have had surgery, to pull up her eye.

It was suggested that's why she went for older men.

I also noted that she was living with her mother after her parents had divorced. Another reason for this pattern of going after unavailable men, if her father had 'left her'.

Not excusing - just looking at possible cause of her 13 yr old attention seeking behaviour with an older man, and her abduction fantasy. I think a kid like her would revel in all the attention she got from police and at school too.
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Yes, definitely has had some eye surgery since the unsuccessful op earlier on.
Also, most certainly something else wrong with her, psychopathic or whatever.

Got used to trading/manipulating men through sex, from an early age .
Interesting that the old school friends say that she never had an interest in hanging with peer age group - always older people.

yes father Chris W, left soon after the "abduction" so presume the parental reln was going down-hill prior to that and it may have an influence on both the 13 yr old alleged "relationship" as well as the dramatic attention-seeking story?

One of the stable sources differs and says she cobbled together the fake abduction story as she was trying to get the attention of a different 30 year old bloke they knew. ( He also had a partner. ) None of these are corroborated, could be just assumption.
 
It will be interesting to see if SW appeals her conviction.

I don't think these types take defeat easily. It's not hard to see how driven and goal orientated she is and has always been.
 
Thanks for the updates Cotton, just had time to catch up now.

The first DM article, I am fairly sure that pic of IJ is him and his daughter, not SW.
Interesting background to KW and can see why she helped SW so much. SW provided holidays that KW could not have afforded and SW had an exciting life with her boyfriends ( polite word ! ) that KW could live through, second hand.
But makes me wonder, if KW had no real job and no steady income then where did the £43,000 come from ? I wonder if it was a policy of some kind that perhaps her parents took out for her and when it matured she handed the cash over to SW.

Interesting that SWs parents divorced just after the alleged abduction. I wonder if the abduction story was a cry for attention, perhaps things at home were already not great....or if SW was already, subconsciously, looking for an older male figure to be with, knowing that her parents were going to split up ( I think from earlier articles, she lived with her mother after the divorce ).
Would also be interesting to know what happened between the years of 18 ( when she didnt do the A levels ) and 21 when she went to work for the bank. Did she do other jobs, or was she by then already living off DHs generous funding.
 
I may have overlooked something very obvious here ( not unusual with me ! ) but where did SW send that letter to - if she didnt know where Sadie lived ?
 
cottonweaver said:
Yes, definitely has had some eye surgery since the unsuccessful op earlier on.
Also, most certainly something else wrong with her, psychopathic or whatever.

Got used to trading/manipulating men through sex, from an early age .
Interesting that the old school friends say that she never had an interest in hanging with peer age group - always older people.

yes father Chris W, left soon after the "abduction" so presume the parental reln was going down-hill prior to that and it may have an influence on both the 13 yr old alleged "relationship" as well as the dramatic attention-seeking story?

One of the stable sources differs and says she cobbled together the fake abduction story as she was trying to get the attention of a different 30 year old bloke they knew. ( He also had a partner. ) None of these are corroborated, could be just assumption.
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That killing was ferocious and mechanical. Wouldn't we expect to see a history of gratuitous and sadistic violence with psychopathy? I wonder if there's more from her past that hasn't come out yet.
 
All I've read is she was living with her mum, no date for parent's separation.
 
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