Patsy Ramsey

That photo was snapped before JBR was found? I don't believe it. The light is on, gleaming under the closed door. When Fleet White and JR entered the room, it was dark and JR flipped the light switch 'on'.

I've always felt the timing of the statement exonerating the Family was purposefully timed after Patsy's death because the perp was DEAD.
 
That photo was snapped before JBR was found? I don't believe it. The light is on, gleaming under the closed door. When Fleet White and JR entered the room, it was dark and JR flipped the light switch 'on'.

What I see in the image is a shiny aluminum threshold strip, I suppose to keep the wine at some level temperature & humidity?
 
What I see in the image is a shiny aluminum threshold strip, I suppose to keep the wine at some level temperature & humidity?
I see that too, only instead of a threshold I think it might be weather stripping along the bottom of the door. Aluminum with either a thick felt, or rubber strip along the bottom. Seems pretty cheesy if it's meant to control temp or humidity. I've always thought calling it the "wine cellar" was just their way of making themselves look even richer. LOL Doesn't look like any wine cellar I've ever seen before! LOL More like an old, nasty, damp, moldy, smelly corner of a basement if you ask me.
 
I see that too, only instead of a threshold I think it might be weather stripping along the bottom of the door. Aluminum with either a thick felt, or rubber strip along the bottom. Seems pretty cheesy if it's meant to control temp or humidity. I've always thought calling it the "wine cellar" was just their way of making themselves look even richer. LOL Doesn't look like any wine cellar I've ever seen before! LOL More like an old, nasty, damp, moldy, smelly corner of a basement if you ask me.

Nom de plume,
LOL More like an old, nasty, damp, moldy, smelly corner of a basement if you ask me.
That's on the money!

Typical Ramsey nouveau riche description! A proper wine-cellar has the wooden racks and tools to crack open the wine for tasting, as well as being properly temperature controlled.

.
 
TartLemon, the photo you reference about it being taken while JBR occupied the wine cellar is labeled as Photo Evidence # 72. I've never tried to match it up with testimony/interrogations. Those two photo images posted of the cellar door and the entry into the train room were snapped by the first responders whose job it is to document the CS. You've probably seen many that were not numbered for whatever reason.


Was posting a photo on another thread when I saw others of Patsy and posting again for newbies. Patsy enjoyed the black/white theme as I recall her kitchen had black and white tile flooring.

They are taken from Andrew Hodges' book A Mother Gone Bad
https://www.amazon.com/Mother-Gone-Bad-Confession-JonBenets/dp/0961725516

JonBenet and Patsy from A Mother Gone Bad.jpg
 
Last night when Dateline showed old interview clips of John and Patsy, I was reminded just how high Patsy often was. Whatever (probably benzos) she was on, were quite strong.

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TartLemon, the photo you reference about it being taken while JBR occupied the wine cellar is labeled as Photo Evidence # 72. I've never tried to match it up with testimony/interrogations. Those two photo images posted of the cellar door and the entry into the train room were snapped by the first responders whose job it is to document the CS. You've probably seen many that were not numbered for whatever reason.


Was posting a photo on another thread when I saw others of Patsy and posting again for newbies. Patsy enjoyed the black/white theme as I recall her kitchen had black and white tile flooring.

They are taken from Andrew Hodges' book A Mother Gone Bad
https://www.amazon.com/Mother-Gone-Bad-Confession-JonBenets/dp/0961725516

View attachment 100120
[emoji33] that photo comparison just floored me. Seriously. Talk about reliving your glory days through your kid...

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Last night when Dateline showed old interview clips of John and Patsy, I was reminded just how high Patsy often was. Whatever (probably benzos) she was on, were quite strong.

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk

Have we ever determined what medications Patsy was on before Dec 27, 1996? Twenty years later, we all know how sleep/relaxation medications can facilitate strange actions.
 
The more I look at Patsy Ramsey, the more I think she is an injustice collector.

Injustice Collectors
http://www.psybersquare.com/family/family_injustice.html

Characteristics of Injustice Collectors:
1.) Injustice Collectors are convinced that they are never wrong. How is it possible that they are never wrong? It is simple: They are always right.

2.) Injustice Collectors never apologize. Ever. For anything.

3.) Injustice Collectors truly believe that they are morally and ethically superior to others and that others chronically do not hold themselves to the same high standards as the injustice collector does.

4.) Injustice Collectors make the rules, break the rules and enforce the rules of the family. They are a combined legislator, police, and judge and jury of

5.) Injustice Collectors never worry about what is wrong with themselves as their "bad list" grows. Their focus is always on the failings of others.

6.) Injustice Collectors are never upset by the disparity of their rules for others with their own expectations of themselves.

7.) Injustice Collectors rationalize their own behavior with great ease and comfort.


Patsy Ramsey shows 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7.

She shows almost every characteristics of one. She always thinks she is right no matter what. Injustice collector get angry very easily. which characterizes Patsy Ramsey. They are very negative people and complain non-stop.

Patsy Ramsey is very likely a chronic complainer. Chronic complaining is a characteristic of injustice collectors. Constant complaining is also seen in personality disorders, particularly paranoid, narcissistic, and borderline.

Websleuth Radio Interview Of Tina Meier describing Lori Drew
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/websleuths/2013/09/30/tricias-true-crime-radio-adult-cyber-bullying

It is at the 20:40 mark. Tina Meier describes Lori Drew, the woman who harassed Megan Meier to suicide in October 2006. Tina Meiers describes Lori Drew as a unhappy and bitter person who complained nonstop. She is in a unhappy marriage, but did not elaborate. Meier states that Drew was irritating because of her constant complaining. She is also described as intensely sociable and clingy.

Meier's description of Lori Drew easily describes Patsy Ramsey. Meier's description applies well with Jodi Arias, Betty Broderick, Vester Flanagan, Micah Johnson, Gavin Long, Elliot Rodger, Adam Lanza, Omar Mateen, and 9/11 Terrorists. They are very unhappy and resentful as they are extremely envious of others. You cannot please them no matter what. It is always about them as they are not pleasant people to be around. They are professional victims that rage at the world. They are perpetual victims and feel like society marginalizes them. They blame everyone else, but themselves.

If I recall reading, that Patsy Ramsey had borderline personality disorder or something of that nature. Lori Drew has never been diagnosed with any mental illness or personality disorder. She does exhibit characteristics of borderline and narcissistic personality disorders.

The New Yorker-Friend Game
http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2008/01/21/friend-game

Family Shunned Over MySpace Hoax, Teen's Suicide
http://www.foxnews.com/story/2007/12/07/family-shunned-over-myspace-hoax-teen-suicide.html

This shows that injustice collectors are not only rampage killers and terrorists. There are people who kill one or two and show characteristics of injustice collector or grudge holder.

Patsy Ramsey is vicarious through JonBenet. Patsy participated in pageants and later had JonBenet participate at a young age. Patsy is very demanding and pushy by nature. Like Ramsey, Lori Drew is also very vicarious and pushy through her daughter, Sarah. In Drew's case it is more of being happy, accepted, and liked. There is no doubt that Drew would of been academically push to Sarah. Both would be considered helicopter parents to their daughters.
 
Ooh, some excellent posts here! Thanks for the pics. Hadn't seen those before. I'm semi-obsessed with Patsy at the moment. :blushing:

((Now for some psychobabble. I'm not a psychologist but am married to a therapist and have a deep interest in the subject. Take my opinion with a pillar of salt)).

I definitely think Patsy had Histrionic Personality Disorder and possibly serious mood issues brought on by the hysterectomy and cancer treatments. If she was taking benzos with any frequency, that's like throwing gasoline on a raging fire. (I speak from personal experience on that last bit). Southern women are often taught that their value lies in their looks, youth and fertility. If Patsy was in menopause at age 40, had lost her sex drive and was experiencing physical pain during sex, that is a major ego killer. Then here comes little Jonbenet with her blonde hair and endless potential. It's not hard to make a case for jealousy being a motive if Patsy was indeed the killer.

We don't know a whole lot about Patsy's daily life, but we do know she didn't work outside the home yet her house was messy...even though she had a housekeeper. The bathroom in the basement was smeared with poop, right? And her kids were having serious toileting issues that she had not managed to correct. Her priorities included things like changing out her purse every week (having the housekeeper clean and transfer the contents) & writing up lengthy newsletters at Christmas. These skewed priorities point to disorganized thinking at best and full-on mental illness at worst.

Again, that's all MOO. I don't think Patsy was pure evil or that she premeditated the murder. Just that she was in over her head and snapped one night due to stress. (Which John is equally responsible for since he was the one pushing her to go on all those trips). The way the Ramseys behaved AFTER the tragedy is what makes them horrible people. Throwing your friends under the bus? Refusing to cooperate with Boulder PD while smearing them in the press? Caring only about your reputation and freedom rather than avenging your daughter's death? That's what's unthinkable. Parents kill their kids all the time. At least show some grief over the loss. It's like they didn't even miss her. :eek:uch:
 
Oh Lordy, another thread I haven't seen before. I've enough reading to last me more than a lifetime.
 
I definitely think Patsy had Histrionic Personality Disorder and possibly serious mood issues brought on by the hysterectomy and cancer treatments.

Yes I have been saying that for years!! From what we know of Patsy it sure fits the characteristics of HPD.

Southern women are often taught that their value lies in their looks, youth and fertility.

I'm in the south, so can confirm!

The bathroom in the basement was smeared with poop, right? And her kids were having serious toileting issues that she had not managed to correct. Her priorities included things like changing out her purse every week (having the housekeeper clean and transfer the contents) & writing up lengthy newsletters at Christmas. These skewed priorities point to disorganized thinking at best and full-on mental illness at worst.

Ah yes that weekly purse swap! Ladies, don't forget to swap your purses!

Parents kill their kids all the time. At least show some grief over the loss. It's like they didn't even miss her. :eek:uch:

Agreed!!!
 
Quite a few of the photos in the house give me the willies. I think its the camera angles....plus knowing she was murdered/assaulted there. That photo takes the cake. If only that person had thought, "Hey, I should go ahead and open that door and get a pic of the wine cellar".




THis will always make me sick. The fact they would place her body in the one area of the house that scared her is beyond evil. An abomination. It shows how little they actually cared about her.

Yeah I know they want her body as far away as possible and the wine cellar provides that but just the fact they wouldn't take her feelings into consideration is a level of dysfunction I hope to never encounter in life.

what bothers me is at th top of the door is an old fashioned wood lock on the outside. My grandpa had one on his coal cellar room. So someone came out of that room and put it down..................and someone KNEW how to get to that room through the room with all the mess.
 
Reading about untidiness in the Ramsey home is so hard for me to understand, although I know time and circumstances change people. I knew the Paugh family when we were kids. Patsy is about 7 years older than me. Her sister Pam is my brother's age. I remember going to the Paugh home because Mrs Paugh helped my mom with our school carnivals. I remember them all being nice. They had a nice home in the area of our town that had the best houses in those days. I can't find the thread now but awhile back I read posts about how nasty Mrs Paugh was. I asked my mom about it in case my little girl memories were clouded. But, my mom had the same impressions I did. Nice family, nice house. I was 11 yrs old when Patsy won Miss WV and I remember being in awe of how glamorous she was. My 11 yr old self doesn't want to believe Patsy had anything to do with JonBenet's death or a cover-up but I think the family's behavior was odd after the murder. Too many unexplained things, such as the ransom note and appearing to hinder the investigation. As parents I felt they should have done everything possible to find their daughter's killer. I hate to believe it but in my heart I feel the only reason for their behavior would be to cover for someone very close to them. Sorry if this is the wrong thread for this. There are so many for JonBenet and I've never posted on one of her's until now.
BBM

I appreciate reading your perspective as someone who knew the family when you were young, wvcountrygirl.

Question (and I do hope you'll come back to interact with us): In the bolded statement above, do you think they would cover for BR?
 
Re-reading Steve Thomas's book

I am startled at how quickly I dis-remembered that all the investigators and DAs thought PR was guilty of murdering JBR. She was their number one suspect and no matter how much evidence dribbled in, it still all pointed to her. None of them thought JR had anything to do with the crime, the staging - nothing. His part was in his fierce protection of PR with expensive lawyers and PR people.

BR's involvement was suggested briefly, but he was never considered anything more than a family member victim.

The only person who thought PR didn't do it was Lou.

And the DA was paralyzed with fear over taking this case to trial because of Lou's opinion.

This case was solvable - the DA just didn't like the resolution.

PR seems to be sooooooo guilty. Oddly, there was a section in which the detectives thought JBR could have eaten the pineapple before she left to go to the White's, reportedly she did not eat much while there, if anything. Alternatively, they thought PR fixed the kids the pineapple snack after they got home that night.

Apparently, the rate of digestion issue on the pineapple is just a guess for all of us and we are working on 2 - 3 hours. The detectives suggested it could have been as long as 5 - 6 hours. Maybe 'rind' of pineapple takes longer to digest than we have figured.
 
Absolutely Tea Time. Even back when I took IDI possibilities seriously such as a robbery gone wrong or maybe JAR hiring someone to do the job, it always hit a brick wall with Patsy's name on it. The case is a huge maze whose exit points always lead to her.
 
Absolutely Tea Time. Even back when I took IDI possibilities seriously such as a robbery gone wrong or maybe JAR hiring someone to do the job, it always hit a brick wall with Patsy's name on it. The case is a huge maze whose exit points always lead to her.

Re-reading the book is revealing to me that PR may have done this whole thing, alone. The whole range of investigators, DAs and experts thought she did it, alone, and they were the ones at the scene, seeing the evidence and witnessing the suspects' behavior.

One thing that is of great importance is that both JR and PR lived in Atlanta during the child murders which ended with the arrest of Wayne Williams. It was the first well-known case where FIBER evidence solved the murders. It was a brand new and very technical science and everyone in Atlanta knew all about fiber evidence. Makes me wonder about PR holding the body and rocking while wearing the same clothing that would eventually be linked to the fibers found in very incriminating places.

PR knew about fiber evidence. Just saying.
 
Apologies if this is elsewhere on this Patsy Ramsey thread (started from scratch and am only a third of the way through reading everyone's posts here).

Looking on ACandyRose for something else, I came across this:


Ramsey Christmas 1993
"I was now ready for the final step, which unfortunately was a big one; a laparoscopy" (snip) "I begged to have the operation postponed. "I want to be home with my children for the holidays." (snip) "Then, on December 26, I returned to NIH for this final surgery." [DOIpg89]"

Coincidence of dates...
Did PR associate Christmas with her cancer treatment and subsequently entering early menopause?

Then this:
Boulder, Colorado Spring 1994
JP: I said to Patsy, What happened to her hair? And she goes OH I just got so sick of fighting with JonBenét about combing her hair. We would fight all the time, so I just got sick of it and I took the scissors and cut her hair." (snip) "JP: yeah, she was about 3 and shortly afterward I did the photo shoot for the Colorado women's news article and spent some time in the home and JonBenét still had that short bob of a hair cut." [Afternoon with Judith Phillips 2/2000]
"During my struggle with cancer and losing my hair, Judith frequently asked to take my picture. I had tried to tell her that I was in a fight for my life and having my bald head snapped by her camera wasn't high on my list of priorities. However, Judith persisted, so shortly after I finished my chemotherapy, I acquiesced to doing a few pictures in the spring of 1994." [DOIpg160]

Perhaps this is a terrible misjudgement on my part, but I immediately thought that Patsy cut off JBR's hair because she was losing her own hair.
Was this just an act of spite - if I can't have hair neither can you?
Overly identifying with her daughter, seeing JBR as an extension of herself?
Was JBR being bratty because mummy was being rough with her hair?
Or just another coincidence?
 
*snip*
Ramsey Christmas 1993
"I was now ready for the final step, which unfortunately was a big one; a laparoscopy" (snip) "I begged to have the operation postponed. "I want to be home with my children for the holidays." (snip) "Then, on December 26, I returned to NIH for this final surgery." [DOIpg89]"

Coincidence of dates...
Did PR associate Christmas with her cancer treatment and subsequently entering early menopause?


I don't know, but I imagine she could have been thinking "Will this be my last Christmas?" She may not have had only this thought on her mind, but her upcoming 40th birthday (the one usually labeled as the "over-the-hill" one) as well.

Then this:
Boulder, Colorado Spring 1994
JP: I said to Patsy, What happened to her hair? And she goes OH I just got so sick of fighting with JonBenét about combing her hair. We would fight all the time, so I just got sick of it and I took the scissors and cut her hair." (snip) "JP: yeah, she was about 3 and shortly afterward I did the photo shoot for theColorado women's news article and spent some time in the home and JonBenét still had that short bob of a hair cut." [Afternoon with Judith Phillips 2/2000]
"During my struggle with cancer and losing my hair, Judith frequently asked to take my picture. I had tried to tell her that I was in a fight for my life and having my bald head snapped by her camera wasn't high on my list of priorities. However, Judith persisted, so shortly after I finished my chemotherapy, I acquiesced to doing a few pictures in the spring of 1994." [DOIpg160]

Perhaps this is a terrible misjudgement on my part, but I immediately thought that Patsy cut off JBR's hair because she was losing her own hair.
Was this just an act of spite - if I can't have hair neither can you?
Overly identifying with her daughter, seeing JBR as an extension of herself?
Was JBR being bratty because mummy was being rough with her hair?
Or just another coincidence?

Interesting. I never saw it this way, but I think it could be a possibility.
 
When PR gave her "interview" to CNN, she warned that the residents of Boulder should keep their
babies close to them. Too bad she didn't keep her other baby, BR, close to her that morning. She
sent him away not worrying about his safety. Way to put the fear into the community, PR!
 

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