A&E The Killing Season Episodes 1 and 2

[docrocker]

kpetrova_x, I agree with your assessment of the LISK's MO, but the reason I believe he used the GB4 was to leave clues to taunt investigators. He's extremely narccissistic.
Thx for the info!

 

[Motherofmimi]

Hi. I was wondering if it has been explored if LISK is related to the rape, almost decapitation of Karina Veteran in Queens? She was jogging around 5pm and was discovered murdered later that night in a marsh area off the path. Also, a girl that lives near my town in Massachusetts was murdered a few weeks after Karina. She however was also an avid runner and was working in new York at the time of her murder
Is it possible that someone stalked her from New York to Princeton, MA? HER name is Vanessa Marcotte and she too was on a run and was raped, strangled and burned. I keep thinking these are all related

 

[FindHG]

Hi. I was wondering if it has been explored if LISK is related to the rape, almost decapitation of Karina Veteran in Queens? She was jogging around 5pm and was discovered murdered later that night in a marsh area off the path. Also, a girl that lives near my town in Massachusetts was murdered a few weeks after Karina. She however was also an avid runner and was working in new York at the time of her murder
Is it possible that someone stalked her from New York to Princeton, MA? HER name is Vanessa Marcotte and she too was on a run and was raped, strangled and burned. I keep thinking these are all related

:welcome2: to Websleuths!​

Interesting thought, Motherofmimi, thank you for your first post. You're not the first to bring it up, I think, but it seems unlikely to have anything to do with LISK? A thread for your consideration:

Karina Vetrano

 

[Motherofmimi]

:welcome2: to Websleuths!​

Interesting thought, Motherofmimi, thank you for your first post. You're not the first to bring it up, I think, but it seems unlikely to have anything to do with LISK? A thread for your consideration:

Karina Vetrano

Thank you

Sent from my XT1080 using Tapatalk

 

[No it's not]

How did LISK trasnport the GB4 victims' bodies to the site where they were found? I don't know what has been suggested in the past. I've seen photos of the area & the marina near the site. The victims were so methodically set (500 yards apart) & wrapped carefully, that he obviously didn't murder them there. Or, it's not likely. Whatever occurred, it would take either an automobile or other road vehicle, or a boat or yacht to get them to Gilgo Beach. According to the information concerning the precision of the length the burial sites were apart, and the number of bodies, I've been curious since first seeing this case on The Killing Season as to why these numbers were chosen?

Where I've come to at this point is going to sound completely ridiculous to many, but if the SK is a successful businessman (whatever business he's in), he could likely have a boat or yacht and would be familiar with navigational coordinates. Therefore for me, it's too tempting to not look at this. These numbers fit no longitudinal or latitudinal coordinates, no matter how they're seen together. However, the most simple possible explanation I could see with these numbers (I know this sounds ridiculous, but it's just the first thing I could come up with and I'm not an expert in navigational coordinates or nautical travel), would be to divide 500 by 4. The result is 125, and coincidentally the beach is 125 degrees ESE of the Queens area. It IS working backward; therefore, if this is what was intended, it might very well indicate the location of his company, or his home, or other location where the killings took place? Remember, he's extremely narcissistic as an Organized SK, and he feels he'll never be caught no matter what police do.

As I mentioned, I'm not an authority in navigation. But, everything about this killer's MO is part of his signature and are clues about the killer. I hope only that this silly first attempt at determining why he chose 500 yards apart for the burial sites, and why only 4 victims were wrapped in burlap as they were, would stimulate thought by more apt individuals.

In fact, 500 yards might not even be what the killer left to be discovered. It could be 1500 feet, not 500 yards. And, since this killer never intended to stop killing unless he's dead, the number of victims and these 4 sites were intended to taunt authorities. Therefore, the information is too tempting to ignore. He's taunting everyone, and these numbers mean something. Maybe, with Geographical Profiling (I've heard FBI had gotten involved last year I believe), more accurate or more believable results with the numbers he left will result.

On the other hand, sometimes the most simple explanation sits right in front of our noses & a narcissist knows that investigations usually thrive on the most complex explanations. This simple explanation I've presented might very well be exactly what the SK meant.?

I'd LOVE to hear some better explanations than I've given. I've only been studying this case for a week, so if anyone has information about the sites, as above, please respond to my post. I'm most interested.

Thanks everyone

No clue why and when the 500 number was spread, but..

Here is the Suffolk County's DA published crime mapping regarding the GB investigation. The distances between the victims are:

Costello...................Barthelemy.......... 0.16 mi = 844.8 ft = 281.6 yards
Barthelemy............. Barnes..................0.05 mi = 264.0 ft = 88.0 yards
Barnes....................Waterman............ 0.07 mi = 369.6 ft = 123.2 yards

All victims on GB:


Costello...................Barthelemy.......... 0.16 mi = 844.8 ft = 281.6 yards
Barthelemy............. Barnes..................0.05 mi = 264.0 ft = 88.0 yards
Barnes.....................Waterman............ 0.07 mi = 369.6 ft = 123.2 yards
Waterman.............. John Doe.............. 0.28 mi = 1478.4 ft = 492.8 yards
John Doe................JT.......................... 0.62mi = 3273.6 ft = 1091.2 yards
JT.............................Jane Doe # 6........1.43 mi = 7550.4 ft = 2516.8 yards
Jane Doe # 6...........Baby Doe.............0.04 mi = 211.2 ft = 70.4 yards

I went by the pavement markings (LE) on google and marked the G4 victims accordingly getting this placement:

-Nin

 

[dotr]

Just found thread concerning incorrect info about body spacing, fwiw.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?164894-BIG-DISCOVERY-GB4-WERE-NOT-placed-500-feet-apart!&p=12425058#post12425058
[h=2]BIG DISCOVERY- GB4 WERE NOT placed 500 feet apart![/h]

 

[No it's not]

Just found thread concerning incorrect info about body spacing, fwiw.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?164894-BIG-DISCOVERY-GB4-WERE-NOT-placed-500-feet-apart!&p=12425058#post12425058
BIG DISCOVERY- GB4 WERE NOT placed 500 feet apart!

Yep, there you go! Thanks

-Nin

 

[websurfer]

Tricia,
Thank you for this forum. I'm posting this again (shorter version) because originally I didn't know where to post it. Someone asked if I had passed this on to the producers of the show? I didn't know how. I posted it on Peter Brendt's forum. I'll get the hang of this soon, I promise. Thx, everyone.

I'm a retired MD, but I was not a silver spoon child. I've been interested in investigative techniques & profiling for as long as I can recall. I often wished I had chosen forensic pathology as a specialty, but I have studied some.

I noted that each time the Gilgo Beach 4 murders were discussed on A&E's The Killing Season, it was stated that the four victims were "wrapped carefully in burlap". This caught my attention, because the reporter shown on A&E held up a burlap sack, stating they were "stuffed in a burlap sack like this". Her statement was strikingly different from every other comment made. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems they were carefully wrapped in burlap.

This brings to mind two things to me:
1) My father was a furniture upholsterer. He was a brilliant artist even with furniture. But, burlap comes in "Bolts" or large rolls. I read in a forum post that it was reported by police that they thought the perpetrator had access to large amounts of burlap. The Bolts they are shipped in are large and EVERY upholsterer & Furniture Company purchases their burlap in these huge Rolls.
2) Secondly, it reminds me of something a murderer who has deeply twisted scripture in to his thinking. "Sack Cloth" is a religious inference, and burlap is basically a type of sack cloth. Were any ashes either near the bodies or buried with the bodies? Or, were the ladies burned or clothing burned?

These 4 ladies were killed by the same murderer. It seems to me that the killer in this case was a very Organized Killer. He is meticulous. So are upholsterers. (Disorganized killers are not meticulous & they rip bodies & dismember bodies. Mr Brendt called them "torso killers"). The bodies being "wrapped carefully" in burlap cries of meticulous work that an upholsterer would use in their work. This is a gruesome thought, but even the bodies being wrapped in burlap gives the impression of either someone wishing to toy with police by giving them a clue and laughing- by way of "stuffing cushions", or some other arrogant reason. They certainly are trophies. Upholsterers are required to measure fabric precisely, just like this killer laid out each of the 4 bodies exactly 500 yards apart. This was a startlingly precise measurement for the burial sites. If this SK owns a large furniture store, it has taken him years to establish the company in the area, unless it was handed down to him. If he built it himself, he's likely at least in his early 40's. Again, his age would depend on how long it has taken him to build his company & to gain such notoriety to ensure his ability to make his victims feel completely comfortable getting in to his vehicle or in going to his home.

If I had to make my best guess, I'd suggest that this killer OWNS a furniture company in the area. He's a church-going citizen and well-thought of in the community. These burial sites were shoved right in the faces of the police & the community. He is narcissistic (most serial killers are), but is Organized & meticulous. He doesn't think he'll ever be caught. His good standing in the community also gave him credibility with the victims. We know that SK's have learned how to make their victims feel comfortable. He has probably advertised on local or even regional TV in the area. If this is correct, he has a lot of money, and can travel. This killer is particularly dangerous due to the things I've mentioned above. I hesitated stating that, because he will possibly read this & get great pleasure from it. However, I couldn't care much less for his feelings. The community needs to be on alert for someone like I've described.

One last note. Mr Brendt mentioned that the burial sites are not the only "trophies" of the SK in this case. That's correct. SK's keep a trophy somewhere they have access to in order to allow them to relive the killing & the excitement of their horrid acts.

I realize I'm new to this website & forum, but I hope that at least my observations might help to jog someone's memory or give more clues to help find the killer.

docrocker

This is definately interesting.
I never considered furniture apolstery
As s possible source for the burlap.
Along with this possible source
for the burlap,I have been wondering
about the recent" Jogger Murders"
being somehow connected?
I have read that SK's tend to either
relocate to continue murdering,or
Change their style of murdering.
With this in mind,and the close proximity to the water source.
It had me thinking that perhaps the
Murderer uses a boat to get to
The areas?
If someone could perhaps get a victims map?
Of the LISK MURDERS and the
recent "JOGGER MURDERS"

Because it seems both have very
High grasses in which a murderer can
Hide.

One more thing.
I have yet to understand the female &
child who had matching jewelry.
And the Asian crossdressing male.
Who are not similar to some other
victims.

 

[Motherofmimi]

This is definately interesting.
I never considered furniture apolstery
As s possible source for the burlap.
Along with this possible source
for the burlap,I have been wondering
about the recent" Jogger Murders"
being somehow connected?
I have read that SK's tend to either
relocate to continue murdering,or
Change their style of murdering.
With this in mind,and the close proximity to the water source.
It had me thinking that perhaps the
Murderer uses a boat to get to
The areas?
If someone could perhaps get a victims map?
Of the LISK MURDERS and the
recent "JOGGER MURDERS"

Because it seems both have very
High grasses in which a murderer can
Hide.

One more thing.
I have yet to understand the female &
child who had matching jewelry.
And the Asian crossdressing male.
Who are not similar to some other
victims.

One of the jogger murdered girls was burned. Vanessa Marcotte...she was murdered less than a mile from her home in rural Princeton MA ..however she had been working in new York at the time of her murder at Google. She was visiting her mother for the weekend in MA

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[FindHG]

One of the jogger murdered girls was burned. Vanessa Marcotte...

RSBM

A thread for your consideration, Momofmimi, if I may:

MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 August 2016 #5

 

[Motherofmimi]

RSBM

A thread for your consideration, Momofmimi, if I may:

MA - Vanessa Marcotte, 27, murdered, Princeton, 7 August 2016 #5

Thanks FindHG

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[UndiscoveredTruth]

I was able to get them here on the A&E channel, but they may have come from my cable service. Hope that helps a bit! (Probably not, unfortunately, LOL)

Thank you for that, twocuriouscats. I don't even have the A&E channel lol, so am not sure which channel it will be broadcasted on when it does view in my Country (New Zealand). We do have CI (Crime Investigations) channel, which I'll add, is my favourite channel. I've come across alot of programmes where I've actually followed the case right here on Websleuths, it's amazing. Some of the programmes have Captions, some don't which is why I've asked if the "Killing Season" does. My cable service too, has the Captions/Subtitles option, but some of the programmes for some reason do not show Captions/Subtitles, much to my disgust. Nevertheless, thank you for your help, really appreciate it.

:welcome2:

Thank you, Bravo. (Although I've been a member for some time and have participated on several threads throughout the forums I think in this thread, I consider myself a newbie lol.)

FYI- A&E running 1st and 2nd episodes again today at 3-5 p.m. EST

I'm so envious of all those who are able to watch!

Today will be my 3rd viewing. Seems every time I see it I pick up on much more.

:thinking: Okay..now you're just skiting, no need to rub it in anymore!!! (LOL I'm just kidding.) I really am green with envy! Maybe I should move to the States lol.

 

[Goggy29]

Costello...................Barthelemy.......... 0.16 mi = 844.8 ft = 281.6 yards
Barthelemy............. Barnes..................0.05 mi = 264.0 ft = 88.0 yards
Barnes....................Waterman............ 0.07 mi = 369.6 ft = 123.2 yards

If you add the differences up it comes to 492.8 yards. Could it have just been a generalization by the media, or did the cops specifically say 500 yards?

 

[MBaloubi]

I saw on the show that one of the profilers said he believed the unidentified Asian male was Mo Zheng. I over layed the unidentified male with another missing man named Jonathan Ogawa and this is what I got. I truly believe he is the unidentified Asian male as soon as I saw him, my stomach dropped. He was 26 when he went missing but we have all seen forensics make mistakes. Maybe someone should look into seeing if this is him!

I couldn't get it to line up exactly but the eyes, hairline, and nose match. He even has the long chin.

 

[Motherofmimi]

I saw on the show that one of the profilers said he believed the unidentified Asian male was Mo Zheng. I over layed the unidentified male with another missing man named Jonathan Ogawa and this is what I got. I truly believe he is the unidentified Asian male as soon as I saw him, my stomach dropped. He was 26 when he went missing but we have all seen forensics make mistakes. Maybe someone should look into seeing if this is him!

Where was Johnathan from

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[MBaloubi]

San Francisco, CA.

I guess I'm lost as to why someone would believe a foreign exchange student would suddenly become a cross dressing prostitute.

Not to say Jonathan would either, but Mo's age enhanced photo doesn't sit right with me. I could be wrong. Mo does match closely as well, just wondering if a part of being a foreign exchange student required some type of DNA/bloodwork/shots prior to entering the country.

To add : I joined WebSleuths particularly for the LISK case and my desire to help. I was in foster care with Shannan, we spent a lot of time together and went to the same junior high school. Um so with life ending up differently for us, I just feel like I owe her this.

The last words I ever saw from her she wrote in my yearbook when I graduated 9th grade, I also left foster care, never heard from her and I was never able to get in contact with her until I returned home from the Army some years later to discover she was missing. It took me a whole year to realize it was the Shannan I spent my weekends with in Rockland County that was missing. It was when I saw her picture that I immediately grabbed my yearbook and BOOM! I have been torn up by it. After coming home, I had a friend commit suicide ( who had been calling out for help), Shannan's disappearance and death and my mom took classes with Julissa Brisman (who was also killed by a Craigslist killer). It was a crazy time.

 

[MBaloubi]

 

[MBaloubi]

Hope this overlay looks better, I just completed it.

 

[MBaloubi]

I also took a look at Jane Doe #6, Heather Johnson went missing from Glen Burnie, MD but she was also a dancer who frequented Atlantic City, NJ (the other slayings). I did an overlay for her as well, and there was a close match there too. She fits the age, and other descriptions and is worth taking a look at it. She went missing 08/04/1999.

Two other people of interest to me were Robin Trivisono who went missing 01/19/1997 and Jennifer Gordon who went missing 09/10/1997.

 

[MBaloubi]

Found this online in an AMW post about Heather Johnson:

After her last AMW profile, you (I think) mentioned that AMW said tips placed her stripping in California and Miami. Given the length she's been on the run for it's certainly possible. I admit I missed replying to this thread when you first posted it however I just wanted to say I had issues with AMW's supposed sightings. It's rather coincidental they specifically mentioned California and Miami. Especially when you see that the DoeNetwork mentions she may have been seen in Atlantic City, New Jersey.

To me she never left the Mid-Atlantic region of the US. I just feel she looks very little like she did when she was 19, now that she's in her early-mid 30s, she could have dyed her hair or cut it or just gotten older. You also mentioned she probably is too old for the stripping occupation so she may have graduated to prostitution. I can actually see her working in or managing an escort service business.



Read more: http://amwfans.com/thread/286/heather-johnson-maryland-1999#ixzz4QPw3NVCt

Also:

Heather Johnson was profiled last year on AMW on Lifetime's "Bad Girls" special. Johnson was in a relationship with her boyfriend Bobby Haislip. They met at the strip club where Johnson was working as an exotic dancer. According to her re-enactment after realizing cash was missing from her house, she accused Haislip of taking it, and hired a couple of men to beat and torture him. Haislip survived, and now according to AMW she is wanted for attempted murder. According to the re-enactment, she also allgedly called and threatened Haislip after the crime. It's believed Johnson may still be stripping anywhere in the country.

What's really bizarre about this case is some sites, including missingkids.com and the doe network list her as a missing person and NOT a fugitive. Although you can say technically she's both.



Read more: http://amwfans.com/thread/286/heather-johnson-maryland-1999#ixzz4QPwPcqGv