FL - 17 killed in Stoneman Douglas H.S. shooting, Parkland, 14 Feb 2018 #3 *Arrest*

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Is there a media/timeline only thread for this case? i don't see one linked on the start of this thread, and unfortunately, I can't keep up with this full thread. Every time I find a useful article or timeline, especially from the local Florida journalists, I'd love to share it, but I'm so worried that it's already been posted time and again. :(

TIA and MOO :)
 
I have a question. Can someone that has an IEP over the age of 18 sign off that they no longer want to be in the program?
I do wonder if after being suttled from school to school, if he might of decided he was done with the program.
I do understand that the school systems do have the obligation to educated him until he is 22. I have seen this happen with special needs students in main stream school. I have seen students that have recieved a certificate of completion before thier 22nd birthday, and the state is obligated to continue thier education in technical schools and such. I have also seen where special needs students stay in the mainstream school until thier 22nd birthday.
I just wonder what happens with a student that at 18 decides they no longer want to be in the program. Can they opt out?

They can here in NC. It is up to the student and/or their parents.
 
I have a question. Can someone that has an IEP over the age of 18 sign off that they no longer want to be in the program?
I do wonder if after being suttled from school to school, if he might of decided he was done with the program.
I do understand that the school systems do have the obligation to educated him until he is 22. I have seen this happen with special needs students in main stream school. I have seen students that have recieved a certificate of completion before thier 22nd birthday, and the state is obligated to continue thier education in technical schools and such. I have also seen where special needs students stay in the mainstream school until thier 22nd birthday.
I just wonder what happens with a student that at 18 decides they no longer want to be in the program. Can they opt out?

In NY, they can sign out of a program unless someone else has POA or the student in in their guardianship. There are often a variety of programs that students and families can qualify for within their IEP. Post-secondary option planning begins at age 14. At IEP meetings post 14 students and families discuss the options and plan for what they want to do going forward. Students can change their mind and reconvene an IEP meeting to change their goals. This might mean that they continue to attend high school, go to vo-tech programs, or access job training and independent living options through agencies. We always recommend that out families utilize service providers to help them with transition planning, daily living plans, and assessing what can be done for family respite.

The most important piece of this is that a student who is able to voice their opinion can sabotage any program if they don't want to be there. If a student advocates for or chooses to attend a GED type program or an alternative program, we work to help parents understand that job transition and career transition are life span-- no college or vo-tech now but may be after they are in the world of work.
 
Is there a media/timeline only thread for this case? i don't see one linked on the start of this thread, and unfortunately, I can't keep up with this full thread. Every time I find a useful article or timeline, especially from the local Florida journalists, I'd love to share it, but I'm so worried that it's already been posted time and again. :(

TIA and MOO :)

I don`t believe one was created for this thread but if you alert your post and request one it may be accomodated.
 
In NY, they can sign out of a program unless someone else has POA or the student in in their guardianship. There are often a variety of programs that students and families can qualify for within their IEP. Post-secondary option planning begins at age 14. At IEP meetings post 14 students and families discuss the options and plan for what they want to do going forward. Students can change their mind and reconvene an IEP meeting to change their goals. This might mean that they continue to attend high school, go to vo-tech programs, or access job training and independent living options through agencies. We always recommend that out families utilize service providers to help them with transition planning, daily living plans, and assessing what can be done for family respite.

The most important piece of this is that a student who is able to voice their opinion can sabotage any program if they don't want to be there. If a student advocates for or chooses to attend a GED type program or an alternative program, we work to help parents understand that job transition and career transition are life span-- no college or vo-tech now but may be after they are in the world of work.

So I am asking (sincerely) if a student has developmental delays, odd & erratic behavior, some observations noted of violence, has had a history of difficulties being in the mainstream school system in the past, this student may be allowed to make the decision to attend a mainstream school?

If so, is there an age associated with this? Can this student decide this upon age 18 or can it be younger? What if the mainstream school doesn’t have the appropriate accommodations for said student?

Can the student continue efforts in mainstreaming in a public school until a certain age, and if so....what is that age....22 yrs old?

Is there any overriding body or petitioners allowed or is (for instance) an 18 yr old allowed the sole judgement?
 
Are you suggesting that crimes committed by a minor don't count? Then what good would be the background check laws?

I’m referring to how they’re handled by law. I’m not a lawyer. [emoji6]
 
Exactly, Juvenile records are sealed, probably in every state.

And maybe that law has to be looked at too for the safety of society. Some crimes committed are egregious and if committed with frequency by a teen may need to be recorded as public record, no?
 
So I am asking (sincerely) if a student has developmental delays, odd & erratic behavior, some observations noted of violence, has had a history of difficulties being in the mainstream school system in the past, this student may be allowed to make the decision to attend a mainstream school?

If so, is there an age associated with this? Can this student decide this upon age 18 or can it be younger? What if the mainstream school doesn’t have the appropriate accommodations for said student?

Can the student continue efforts in mainstreaming in a public school until a certain age, and if so....what is that age....22 yrs old?

Is there any overriding body or petitioners allowed or is (for instance) an 18 yr old allowed the sole judgement?

IEPs determine the appropriate setting for a student. Based on the IEP, there may or may not be a choice of setting. I have had children who had to be in a 6:1:1 classroom setting (6 students, etc) but there were not settings like this in the school so the school could modify the IEP with the family. If the question is, what was in this young man's IEP? If he had emotional disturbance but had a Functional Behavior Assessment and Behavior Intervention Plan that was working and the setting was optimal for his academic function, then a mainstream school might have been the option decided upon. However, if he had been having issues with behavior and the lesser restrictive setting was not appropriate (through a revising of his IEP), he could be offered a place in a more restrictive environment--- the family might agree or disagree (then it would go to a hearing) on the setting. Parents/guardians have a lot of power in this.

These procedures are all a part of what the Bush Administration created with No Child Left Behind. Historically, schools had much more flexibility in services offered and placements. But, with NCLB, everything became standardized. IT is difficult to move a child from a less restrictive environment to more restrictive one b/c the idea is that all children should have the greatest opportunity to succeed. The process for moving to more restrictive is one that is done very carefully and deliberately so as to not run afoul of the idea of not having "high enough expectations or providing enough supports to help children succeed." It is not a topic that has come up in our forum but I have lots to say about how NCLB actually creates issues with serving students with ED or CD or ODD.

Again, the IEP is a legal document that must be adhered to. It is not about the child's age but rather what is contained n the IEP, so you can't magically say I want to be mainstreamed when you turn 18 but you can reconvene your IEP and ask for a change, which might require testing, looking at the appropriate setting in the high school, etc. A case in point, I had an 18 year old who was not standardized (didn't take standardized tests or the regents, all work/tests were modified). We had an IEP meeting, he asked to be standardized but because of his IQ the IEP did not change. The student went to the Special Education Unit and requested an administrative hearing. He was granted his request to be standardized. He started to drown under the weight of the work given as now he had to complete things more independently. He asked and was heard.

If the placement is a mainstream school, yes, they can stay until 21 (in my state, I have seen others say 22 in theirs). For many of my students with disabilities (ranging from cog impairment, health related disabilities and Autism), they stay until around 19 or 20. A large chunk of my students are standardized and take the state regents tests to qualify for a Regents diploma. (WE have been proud of our results for our students but our program provides more access to school counselors, social workers, SPED teachers who support students with study skills and their school work.) That said an IEP can be written that says a child will commence job training and get a cert of attendance at age 21. It is all about what is written in the document.

Yes, students can continue to seek to be mainstreamed but their IEP must recommend it. They need ability to complete classes and prove they need a less restrictive environment. This goes back to the protections that are there for the students and ensuring that students are not bouncing back and forth between more and less restrictive environments. Behavioral issues are particularly tough in this vein-- the government requires that behavior assessments, and intervention plans be reviewed every 90 days with data collection and a whole process to ascertain whether the behavior is getting better or worse--not just your feelings as a teacher but actual data for the number of times the behavior focused on occurs within a given setting. ALL required by the government to ensure student protection and effective interventions.

CONJECTURE ---This young man should have had an FBA and BIP with routine data collections to keep the BIP in compliance. My guess (and I have seen with students with ED) is that he held it together for most of the time, especially on the 10 day data collection times. It is often those times that teachers are more consistent with their responses as well. If he had behavioral outbursts outside of the time when the BIP was being reviewed, if the behaviors were not ones that were part of the FBA/BIP, then they would reassess the FBA/BIP and data collect to create a new one. There are formulas that are followed that determine actions taken to ensure that the behaviors that are focused on can be observed, interventions planned, and able to be addressed. IF it sounds complicated, it is even more than you think.
 
Thank you for your thoughtful answer, Kaen.

While we accommodate the wishes of those who try to mainstream, I wonder how this effects the learning of the students without those challenges? Hmmmmm......
 
Thank you for your thoughtful answer, Kaen.

While we accommodate the wishes of those who try to mainstream, I wonder how this effects the learning of the students without those challenges? Hmmmmm......


Well now, that is a whole other ball of wax, isn't it? Depending on the student, the learning of others does not have to be affected. Given the least restrictive environment caveat, students with disabilities can be served in mainstream, 12:1:1 programs and inclusion programs but it then becomes about the disability, its manifestation, and the kind of supports the school system and IEP offer. I counsel students-- we spend lots of time talking about classroom success, testing hypotheses and making plans for incremental change. If you have teachers who have good management skills and understand the IEP student's needs, there may be little disruption to a classroom. And, the opposite can be true due to any number of factors. Paraprofessionals, counselors, and great teachers can make a huge difference. Factors that might also affect classroom impact are things like teacher facility with students with disabilities, foster care, unstable home life, health issues, lack of student understanding of their disability and its manifestations.
 
Insightful post. Thank you, kaen.

IEPs determine the appropriate setting for a student. Based on the IEP, there may or may not be a choice of setting. I have had children who had to be in a 6:1:1 classroom setting (6 students, etc) but there were not settings like this in the school so the school could modify the IEP with the family. If the question is, what was in this young man's IEP? If he had emotional disturbance but had a Functional Behavior Assessment and Behavior Intervention Plan that was working and the setting was optimal for his academic function, then a mainstream school might have been the option decided upon. However, if he had been having issues with behavior and the lesser restrictive setting was not appropriate (through a revising of his IEP), he could be offered a place in a more restrictive environment--- the family might agree or disagree (then it would go to a hearing) on the setting. Parents/guardians have a lot of power in this.

These procedures are all a part of what the Bush Administration created with No Child Left Behind. Historically, schools had much more flexibility in services offered and placements. But, with NCLB, everything became standardized. IT is difficult to move a child from a less restrictive environment to more restrictive one b/c the idea is that all children should have the greatest opportunity to succeed. The process for moving to more restrictive is one that is done very carefully and deliberately so as to not run afoul of the idea of not having "high enough expectations or providing enough supports to help children succeed." It is not a topic that has come up in our forum but I have lots to say about how NCLB actually creates issues with serving students with ED or CD or ODD.

Again, the IEP is a legal document that must be adhered to. It is not about the child's age but rather what is contained n the IEP, so you can't magically say I want to be mainstreamed when you turn 18 but you can reconvene your IEP and ask for a change, which might require testing, looking at the appropriate setting in the high school, etc. A case in point, I had an 18 year old who was not standardized (didn't take standardized tests or the regents, all work/tests were modified). We had an IEP meeting, he asked to be standardized but because of his IQ the IEP did not change. The student went to the Special Education Unit and requested an administrative hearing. He was granted his request to be standardized. He started to drown under the weight of the work given as now he had to complete things more independently. He asked and was heard.

If the placement is a mainstream school, yes, they can stay until 21 (in my state, I have seen others say 22 in theirs). For many of my students with disabilities (ranging from cog impairment, health related disabilities and Autism), they stay until around 19 or 20. A large chunk of my students are standardized and take the state regents tests to qualify for a Regents diploma. (WE have been proud of our results for our students but our program provides more access to school counselors, social workers, SPED teachers who support students with study skills and their school work.) That said an IEP can be written that says a child will commence job training and get a cert of attendance at age 21. It is all about what is written in the document.

Yes, students can continue to seek to be mainstreamed but their IEP must recommend it. They need ability to complete classes and prove they need a less restrictive environment. This goes back to the protections that are there for the students and ensuring that students are not bouncing back and forth between more and less restrictive environments. Behavioral issues are particularly tough in this vein-- the government requires that behavior assessments, and intervention plans be reviewed every 90 days with data collection and a whole process to ascertain whether the behavior is getting better or worse--not just your feelings as a teacher but actual data for the number of times the behavior focused on occurs within a given setting. ALL required by the government to ensure student protection and effective interventions.

CONJECTURE ---This young man should have had an FBA and BIP with routine data collections to keep the BIP in compliance. My guess (and I have seen with students with ED) is that he held it together for most of the time, especially on the 10 day data collection times. It is often those times that teachers are more consistent with their responses as well. If he had behavioral outbursts outside of the time when the BIP was being reviewed, if the behaviors were not ones that were part of the FBA/BIP, then they would reassess the FBA/BIP and data collect to create a new one. There are formulas that are followed that determine actions taken to ensure that the behaviors that are focused on can be observed, interventions planned, and able to be addressed. IF it sounds complicated, it is even more than you think.
:goodpost:
 
If you look at the philosophy of Broward Sheriff Office- they have several programs aimed at helping to keep young
'offenders' of minor offenses from having a criminal record and out of jail. They have pretty good statistics for it being
a successful program. So yes, this would run counter to the old school politicians who would say 'hang 'em high'.
You have to understand the culture clashes in Florida- Much, much diversity.

That is exactly what I was asking. I imagine somewhere in this mix there has to be an issue of funding too, if the set statistics are maintained.

Thank you!
 
An AR-15 is not "a war machine". God help our soldiers if they're going into a war with those!

I would think most teachers who had a clear shot would take it, to keep their class and themselves from being slaughtered. Unarmed personnel did not hesitate to save those lives however they could.


I can’t personally weigh in on this, but from many articles I read they are described often as “weapons of war”

https://www.thetrace.org/2017/02/assault-rifles-ban-ar-15-weapon-of-war/
article date 2/23/2017

But on Tuesday, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals in Richmond, Virginia, came down squarely one side of this debate, with big implications for how states regulate assault weapons. In a 10-4 decision, the federal court upheld Maryland’s 2013 assault weapons ban, finding that guns like the AR-15 are weapons of war, and thus American civilians don’t have an unfettered right to buy and own them under the Second Amendment.
There’s no question that the AR-15 was created for the military. The gun was first designed by famed engineer Eugene Stoner in the late 1950s as a replacement for rifles developed during and soon after World War II.

In 1959, Colt, a much larger firearms company, bought the design from Stoner’s struggling Armalite, and produced it for the military under the designation M-16. Many gun companies now make their own versions of that weapon, along with other military-style semiautomatic rifles like the AK-47 or Sig Sauer’s recent MCX. These rifles are virtually identical in functionality to the M-16, with one difference: they lack the automatic fire feature. Meaning, its owner must squeeze the trigger each time he or she fires a shot.
 
And maybe that law has to be looked at too for the safety of society. Some crimes committed are egregious and if committed with frequency by a teen may need to be recorded as public record, no?

This makes me wonder if psychiatric history of juveniles is also protected?
 
And maybe that law has to be looked at too for the safety of society. Some crimes committed are egregious and if committed with frequency by a teen may need to be recorded as public record, no?

If the crime is so bad, aren’t they tried as an adult?
 
So I am asking (sincerely) if a student has developmental delays, odd & erratic behavior, some observations noted of violence, has had a history of difficulties being in the mainstream school system in the past, this student may be allowed to make the decision to attend a mainstream school?

If so, is there an age associated with this? Can this student decide this upon age 18 or can it be younger? What if the mainstream school doesn’t have the appropriate accommodations for said student?

Can the student continue efforts in mainstreaming in a public school until a certain age, and if so....what is that age....22 yrs old?

Is there any overriding body or petitioners allowed or is (for instance) an 18 yr old allowed the sole judgement?

A student may wish to attend a mainstream school. Every child has the right to the least restrictive environment. There will be goals in the IEP and if the goal is to be in a less restrictive environment, then goals will be set as to how that will be achieved. It is an individualized education plan so it is tailored to,that child.

All schools are required to make the accommodations. That is why special,ed is so,expensive. It is mandated by the Federal govt but there is no money allocated.

There is no age associated with special ed. It is birth through 21. All situations are imdividual. I cannot remember how often IEP’s are reviewed. A parent can ask for a review at anytime.

A student does not decide on his own to go mainstream unless he is 18 and can refuse services, Then he is in school and expulsion and other methods are far easier to implement. There are not the rules imposed by being a special needs student.
 
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