Thailand - FOUND ALIVE - 12 Boys And Coach Rescued from Cave, 23 June 2018 #6

That was opinion I believe which is allowed. Defamation of character is serious. MOO.

It is sad that this public spat appears to be the headlines now. The two of them need to sort it out.

Sorry my post may not have been clear. The post I quoted said “ what the diver did was just reporting the truth”. I don’t believe we KNOW that anything the diver said the actual truth. It would seem the diver was stating his opinion.
I’m not referring to libel, just simply that we cannot call what the diver said “ reporting the truth”.
 
So, we KNOW the mini sub wouldn’t have worked? We KNOW it was just a PR stunt? We KNOW Musk was asked to leave the cave almost immediately? I wasn’t aware we actually knew ANY of that to be the TRUTH.
Yes, we know all of that from multiple sources, including from experts and government officials who were in charge. I suggest you go back an read this thread again.
 
Sorry my post may not have been clear. The post I quoted said “ what the diver did was just reporting the truth”. I don’t believe we KNOW that anything the diver said the actual truth. It would seem the diver was stating his opinion.
I’m not referring to libel, just simply that we cannot call what the diver said “ reporting the truth”.

I understand. MSM are reporting the divers's verbal opinions and EM tweets. We aren't privy to what is true about either of the statements. They are the only ones who can sort it out.
 
Last edited:
If you accuse somebody of being a pedophile, you better be able to back it up. If not, that is slander, and it is illegal. Musk removed his tweets, because he knew what he said was wrong. What the diver did was just reporting the truth. That is protected by the First Amendment. Slander is not protected speech.

So, we KNOW the mini sub wouldn’t have worked? We KNOW it was just a PR stunt? We KNOW Musk was asked to leave the cave almost immediately? I wasn’t aware we actually knew ANY of that to be the TRUTH.

Very good point. Musk could easily counter-sue the guy, imo.
 
Yes, we know all of that from multiple sources, including from experts and government officials who were in charge. I suggest you go back an read this thread again.

How could an expert or government official possibly KNOW it was a publicity stunt?
Could an expert or government official possibly KNOW the sub wouldn’t work AT All without it being tried?
I wasn’t aware there were other experts or government officials that stated Musk was asked to leave almost immediately. I may have missed that.
 
[QUOTE = "SugarQueen, post: 14216947, member: 48782"]Sorry my post may not have been clear. The post I quoted said “ what the diver did was just reporting the truth”. I don’t believe we KNOW that anything the diver said the actual truth. It would seem the diver was stating his opinion.
I’m not referring to libel, just simply that we cannot call what the diver said “ reporting the truth”.
I understand. MSM are reporting the divers's verbal opinions and EM tweets. We aren't privy to what is true about either of the statements. They are the only ones who can sort it out.[/QUOTE]

The Thai government could sort it out. Unsworth claimed that Musk was sent away almost immediately.

I'm still not sure Unsworth is a diver. Multiple news articles refer to him as a "caver." If that's true, he really isn't in a position to be making claims a submarine built by professional engineers would not work.
 
Self-deleted.

Sorry people, I have a dodgy mouse and a dodgy connection conspiring against me so half my posts are coming out in duplicate and triplicate lately. I am so embarrassed :(

Same here! My mouse sometimes decides to do clicks all by itself. And my connection is so bad I'm on my phone most the time now (which I hate). So I understand you :)
 
I’m truly not trying to be argumentative. I just don’t understand why one is getting a pass, and the other completely vilified from the very beginning. I’m talking about BEFORE he made that uncalled for response to the divers uncalled for comments.
 
Elon Musk Defends His Rejected Mini-Sub Plan for Thai Cave

On Tuesday, the head of the search operation, Narongsak Osottanakorn, until recently the provincial governor, rejected the notion that Mr. Musk’s custom-made submersible was suitable for the extraction.

“I assure you that the equipment he brought to help us is not practical for our mission,” Mr. Narongsak said. “Even though the equipment has state of the art technology, it does not fit our mission in the cave.”

IIRC, the problems started when his sub was rejected as not practical because it was rigid and not able to make the necessary tight turns.

bbm
moo
 
All the divers comments were said BEFORE Musk responded with that hideous comments.

Yes, but he was answering a question posed by the press and was responding to Musk's previous comments criticizing the Thailand officials and divers for not using his submarine. Here is the order of events:

1. Musk's submarine was NOT used. The boys and coach were all rescued without it. When asked why by the BBC the man who was the main Thai official co-coordinating the effort and giving media updates about the rescue said this:
Mr Musk's plan was reported to have been called "not practical" by Narongsak Osatanakorn, who has been co-ordinating the mission. That report came after some criticism of the plan from people who argued that the relatively large submarine would not be able to fit around the tight cave network the boys had to navigate.

“Even though their equipment is technologically sophisticated, it doesn’t fit with our mission to go in the cave,” Mr Osatanakorn told the BBC.
Elon Musk finally responds to claims his Thai rescue effort was useless

2. Musk was upset at the Thai official's comments, insisted it would have worked, and responded on Twitter essentially saying Osatanakorn didn't know what he was talking about and wasn't the real one in charge. And EM revealed private emails between himself and one of the British Divers (very unprofessional behavior, IMO):
"The former Thai provincial governor (described inaccurately as 'rescue chief') is not the subject matter expert," Mr Musk wrote. "That would be Dick Stanton, who co-led the dive rescue team."
Elon Musk finally responds to claims his Thai rescue effort was useless

3. The press asked Vernon Unsworth, who has spent a decade mapping the cave, was among the first on the scene and ultimately brought in the top UK divers responsible for rescuing the boys, for his take on EM's "submarine" and why it wasn't used. Unsworth gave his assessment of why it would not work and his opinion that EM was only after PR.
Here's video of Unsworth being asked about it and his response:
Elon Musk can 'stick his submarine where it hurts', says Thai cave rescuer diver
Quote from the above link:
A British diver who was instrumental in rescuing a schoolboy football team from a flooded cave in Thailand has told Elon Musk to “stick his submarine where it hurts”, describing the entrepreneur’s offer to help the mission with a miniature submersible a “PR stunt”.
Vern Unsworth said a six-foot submarine the SpaceX boss invented and handed to the rescue team “had absolutely no chance of working” because the billionaire inventor “had no conception of what the cave passage was like”.

4. Elon Musk THEN lashed out by calling Unsworth a pedo on Twitter. An accusation with no evidence against a man he has never met. IMO, he also insulted the country of Thailand by making the accusation that anyone who is an Ex-pat living there must be "sus" and a pedo.

5. Unsworth has now said he may pursue legal action against Musk for the slur. And Musk deleted his Twitter comments.

--I promised myself I wouldn't get into this argument and I really don't want to argue anymore after this post about it but the differences between the two people supposedly flinging insults should be clear, IMO. One of them was actually deeply involved in the rescue operation and knew what he was talking about and the other one had not been past the entrance of the cave. One of them gave advice and resources that were actually used to get the boys out safe and one offered a "plan b" that was not used. When more than one person actually involved in the rescue says the submarine didn't fit and wouldn't have worked in the cave I think we should believe the people who were involved over the one throwing vile insults because his plan wasn't used. There were countless others who tried various plans to rescue the boys and coach-- people tried drilling, searching for other entrances, dropping care packages down from above in hopes they would somehow reach the boy's cavern. None of those other people whose efforts were fruitless are lashing out at the rescuers who made it happen. Had Musk simply congratulated the hundreds of people involved in the rescue for a job well done and celebrated the fact that the boys all got out safe he might have earned more good will. His reactions reveal his intent, MOO.
 
Last edited:
From what I'm understanding Unsworth criticised the sub, EM lashed out with that awful thing, and Unsworth told EM to stick the sub where the sun don't shine? But I'm unclear on which order it all happened.

It sounds to me like EM needs serious counselling in how to take criticism and how to treat people. Someone posted earlier that EM suffered bullying when he was at school, it sounds like this could be a result of bullying that's left him with low self-esteem deep inside and lashing out with insults is his way to prop himself up by putting down other people. If that's the case it's one of those things where I can sympathise with the initial events but not with the person's subsequent behavior in starting off as being the victim and turning into the bully to counter the pain and shame.

I think it started when EM a few days after the rescue criticised Thai authorities and/or the divers. I can't exactly remember what he said but we shortly discussed it here and were shaking our collective heads. Possibly he was irked because his sub wasn't used. After that Unsworth said the sub wouldn't have worked anyway (too large or not flexible enough or something) and EM could shove it. Then came the pedo comment. In my opinion Unsworth was right to be angry about the way EM talked about the rescue efforts and right about speaking up. EM seems to have a huge problem with rejection (or what he perceives to be rejection). jmo
 
I can’t even say what I want to say about Musk because I’m sure I’d be banned, but Musk fans should read up on his true character and the things he gets away with, all the while crowing about his own genius and accomplishments - the man is a raging narcissist. He's a slave driver who works his employees to the ground and then takes all the credit for their hard work. He's not the messiah he wants the world to think he is and when someone calls him on it, this is what you get. What's the old saying, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." I think the man is headed for a mental breakdown.
 
I’m truly not trying to be argumentative. I just don’t understand why one is getting a pass, and the other completely vilified from the very beginning. I’m talking about BEFORE he made that uncalled for response to the divers uncalled for comments.

Because Musk criticised Thai officials and rescue personnel before Unsworth said the 'shove it' comment. That was uncalled for.
 
My point is they BOTH behaved like children. I don’t care that the sub wasn’t used, or didn’t work. It was made to try and help rescue the kids. Musk was getting heat all over the place before it was even built. I don’t think Elon Musk should have responded from the beginning. That doesn’t make what the diver said right.
Listen, what Elon Musksaid was horrible. I don’t think anyone is trying to defend his actual comment. I just don’t think the diver is a saint in all of this either.
 
From what I'm understanding Unsworth criticised the sub, EM lashed out with that awful thing, and Unsworth told EM to stick the sub where the sun don't shine? But I'm unclear on which order it all happened.

It sounds to me like EM needs serious counselling in how to take criticism and how to treat people. Someone posted earlier that EM suffered bullying when he was at school, it sounds like this could be a result of bullying that's left him with low self-esteem deep inside and lashing out with insults is his way to prop himself up by putting down other people. If that's the case it's one of those things where I can sympathise with the initial events but not with the person's subsequent behavior in starting off as being the victim and turning into the bully to counter the pain and shame.

Unsworth made three statements of fact: the sub wouldn't work, Musk did it for a P.R. stunt and Musk/team was sent away from the cave almost immediately. Unsworth concluded with the 'put it where the sun don't shine.'

Musk was then told about these insulting claims and he responded on twitter and told the "pedo guy" that he would make a video and prove the sub would work.

The Thai government told the NY Times that Musk was asked to train the Thai divers in case the sub is needed in the future so Unsworth's claim that Musk and his team were immediately asked to leave is not true. Truth is a complete defense to libel/slander.

Thai Navy May Put Elon Musk’s Mini-Submarine to Use. One Day.
 
For the record, before all of this I knew darn near nothing about Elon Musk. Im not really concerned with his business practices as far as what we are talking about here.
 
I can’t even say what I want to say about Musk because I’m sure I’d be banned, but Musk fans should read up on his true character and the things he gets away with, all the while crowing about his own genius and accomplishments - the man is a raging narcissist. He's a slave driver who works his employees to the ground and then takes all the credit for their hard work. He's not the messiah he wants the world to think he is and when someone calls him on it, this is what you get. What's the old saying, "power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely." I think the man is headed for a mental breakdown.

I know nothing about Musk personally so I don't fit into your category of "Musk fans." This thread is about the rescue of the boys from a cave. The personal insults about Musk belong in another thread entirely. JMO
 

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
107
Guests online
4,162
Total visitors
4,269

Forum statistics

Threads
593,088
Messages
17,981,125
Members
229,023
Latest member
Clueliz
Back
Top