Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #23

[MsBetsy]

In the first article I read of the arrest it stated that CW admitted to killing his wife and two little girls. I missed the part when he changed his story. Was it after he spoke to a lawyer? His dad? Also I was reading about strangulation last night. It was described as being "the ultimate form of power and control." Victims first feel terror and severe pain, and will usually resist violently, often producing injuries of their own neck. Reminds me of how we always see it in the movies, with the victim thrashing around and kicking their legs. As if it is an automatic response. I wonder if CW said he noticed his little girl struggling as her mom, ( as he claims) was strangling her. Another thing I wanted to point out is although the victim may lose consciousness within 10 seconds it takes about 4-5 minutes to become brain dead, according to the PDF I read. It would seem if he actually saw her strangling her, he might have had time to revive her. Even in situations where a parent knows a child is dead, there is usually an initial feeling of denial, and one would try frantically to save their child. Yet he doesn't mention any efforts to revive her. Strange. It would seem his desire to punish his wife overpowered his hope to save his little girl.

 

[Marli61]

In the first article I read of the arrest it stated that CW admitted to killing his wife and two little girls. I missed the part when he changed his story. Was it after he spoke to a lawyer? His dad? Also I was reading about strangulation last night. It was described as being "the ultimate form of power and control." Victims first feel terror and severe pain, and will usually resist violently, often producing injuries of their own neck. Reminds me of how we always see it in the movies, with the victim thrashing around and kicking their legs. As if it is an automatic response. I wonder if CW said he noticed his little girl struggling as her mom, ( as he claims) was strangling her. Another thing I wanted to point out is although the victim may lose consciousness within 10 seconds it takes about 4-5 minutes to become brain dead, according to the PDF I read. It would seem if he actually saw her strangling her, he might have had time to revive her. Even in situations where a parent knows a child is dead, there is usually an initial feeling of denial, and one would try frantically to save their child. Yet he doesn't mention any efforts to revive her. Strange. It would seem his desire to punish her overpowered his hope to save his little girl.

BBM This is the part the gets me too MsBetsy. I just can't wrap my mind around it.

 

[NuttMegg]

In the first article I read of the arrest it stated that CW admitted to killing his wife and two little girls. I missed the part when he changed his story. Was it after he spoke to a lawyer? His dad? Also I was reading about strangulation last night. It was described as being "the ultimate form of power and control." Victims first feel terror and severe pain, and will usually resist violently, often producing injuries of their own neck. Reminds me of how we always see it in the movies, with the victim thrashing around and kicking their legs. As if it is an automatic response. I wonder if CW said he noticed his little girl struggling as her mom, ( as he claims) was strangling her. Another thing I wanted to point out is although the victim may lose consciousness within 10 seconds it takes about 4-5 minutes to become brain dead, according to the PDF I read. It would seem if he actually saw her strangling her, he might have had time to revive her. Even in situations where a parent knows a child is dead, there is usually an initial feeling of denial, and one would try frantically to save their child. Yet he doesn't mention any efforts to revive her. Strange. It would seem his desire to punish her overpowered his hope to save his little girl.

I don't think I saw anything saying he admitted to killing the 2 children, but there's something still unexplained behind the affidavit where he said he would tell the TRUTH after he spoke to his father. It's not explained what his story had previously been, to LE, before he decided to tell the truth. IMO

 

[Layla123]

“You know they must have his fingerprints on file by now via the arrest but they have to have warrants to get things from the defendant like DNA samples, etc.
Perhaps the need for a photograph of his hands wasn't necessary until now. And this is just procedure to obtain that evidence.
It's all part of due process.”
@gitana1
I have a hunch the DA received the Medical Examiner’r report, and SW was ruled out as the childrens’ killer because her hands were too small to have caused the strangulation markings on their necks. I think the DA requested the prints and palm sizes from CW because they’re going to prove his hands and fingers committed this crime, and they’ve asked for photographic documentation of the gathering of this evidence so there will be no doubt that the prints they are using for comparison belong to CW.

 

[lorelei2017]

“You know they must have his fingerprints on file by now via the arrest but they have to have warrants to get things from the defendant like DNA samples, etc.
Perhaps the need for a photograph of his hands wasn't necessary until now. And this is just procedure to obtain that evidence.
It's all part of due process.”
@gitana1
I have a hunch the DA received the Medical Examiner’r report, and SW was ruled out as the childrens’ killer because her hands were too small to have caused the strangulation markings on their necks. I think the DA requested the prints and palm sizes from CW because they’re going to prove his hands and fingers committed this crime, and they’ve asked for photographic documentation of the gathering of this evidence so there will be no doubt that the prints they are using for comparison belong to CW.

THIS!

 

[MerryB]

In the first article I read of the arrest it stated that CW admitted to killing his wife and two little girls. I missed the part when he changed his story. Was it after he spoke to a lawyer? His dad? Also I was reading about strangulation last night. It was described as being "the ultimate form of power and control." Victims first feel terror and severe pain, and will usually resist violently, often producing injuries of their own neck. Reminds me of how we always see it in the movies, with the victim thrashing around and kicking their legs. As if it is an automatic response. I wonder if CW said he noticed his little girl struggling as her mom, ( as he claims) was strangling her. Another thing I wanted to point out is although the victim may lose consciousness within 10 seconds it takes about 4-5 minutes to become brain dead, according to the PDF I read. It would seem if he actually saw her strangling her, he might have had time to revive her. Even in situations where a parent knows a child is dead, there is usually an initial feeling of denial, and one would try frantically to save their child. Yet he doesn't mention any efforts to revive her. Strange. It would seem his desire to punish her overpowered his hope to save his little girl.

I believe that was originally reported wrong. My understanding is that he confessed to murdering his pregnant wife. I do not think he ever confessed to killing the girls. His story has not changed. Now, whether this is true or not, I have no idea.

Also, I don’t think LE has told the public the whole story, and rightly so. They must protect the investigation. So, I don’t think we can assume we know what he did & didn’t do regarding the children other than disposing of them in an oil field.

 

[PommyMommy]

He's baaaaaaaaaack...(article published yesterday)

Man who claims affair with accused family killer Chris Watts says Colorado dad gave him money, claimed pregnant wife Shanann Watts was ‘abusive’: EXCLUSIVE

Bolte said when he was recently questioned by FBI agents they accused him of “leaving something out,” which he insists he is not. He also said that lawyers for both the prosecution and the defense had attempted to track him down at his parents’ home in Wyoming.

Bolte provided CrimeOnline with screenshots of text messages between him and Watts that appear to support some type of relationship with Watts. Bolte said they were the first text messages he and Watts exchanged away from the MeetMe app. The messages differ starkly in tone from screenshots circulating on social media, purporting to be messages between Watts and Bolte. Bolte is aware of the images that have circulated and insists they have been fabricated, pointing out that the messages indicate the two men met on Tinder, which Bolte says is not true.

But Bolte did say that Chris had given him some money while they were together. He said that Chris gave him cash on a few occasions when he was in need of financial help, and that Chris offered the money while also stating that he was struggling financially himself. Bolte said that in addition to the cash gifts, which he believes totaled around $1,000, Chris Watts bought him expensive skin care products at Sephora. Bolte said Watts paid in cash.

 

[Trinket78]

I always enjoy reading your posts, Bill. Your theory was my original theory when this all began.

I’ve moved away from this theory, though, as more information has become available. I believe that it was he who wanted the separation, and she was unable to accept it. I believe that she continued to post things on SM that were the polar opposite of the truth, long after their relationship began to crumble. I think there’s a possibility the pregnancy was a “surprise” to him, and was an effort to keep him. I also think the affair may have been an attempt to have an excuse to really leave, or give her a reason to finally let him go. It’s my impression that he had no power in that relationship.

My guess is that although in his mind it had been over for a while, she wanted to try to make it work. I think she thought they could fix things. My theory is that while in AZ, she somehow learned of the affair. When she returned, she confronted him, and he finally admitted it. He told her he was leaving her for someone else.

I don’t know what happened next or how the innocent children became casualties of their dysfunction. I can’t explain any of that in my mind. I do feel pretty confident in the first part of my theory based on what I know, but am open-minded to any ideas or theories y’all have.

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

I can see this theory.

 

[molly1255]

I agree with him in that I lean towards SW demanding for the separation that night, possibly repeating something she said on return from visiting her folks, and then I suspect he lost it. The mixture of suddenly knowing he would be out on the streets possibly at a long term cheap motel, supporting 3 kids, and the loss of esteem of the AP for not being a cool guy anymore with a fantastic home in the burbs.

The rest of it, ie the burial in a beautiful peaceful place, etc, I'm always happy to see a well thought out scenario, but I see Chris's subsequent actions as pure CYA, cowardly CYA which discards IMO any thought that he saw those kids as anything more than big heavy anchors.

I agree it was CYA with respect to how he discarded the bodies, though I'm still trying to figure out SW's shallow grave. I think his intention was to get her body into an oil tank, and he couldn't but planned to come back. JMO

His CYA extended to his lying to LE and lying in his media interviews. I think his CYA then extended to blaming SW for strangling the two little girls and I also think that accomplishes two things for him. JMO

1. Hopefully avoid multiple life sentences or the death penalty.
2. Provides an opportunity to hurt SW further.

JMO, CW is a self-righteous Family Annihilator and if separation was discussed, I believe it was SW who wanted the separation.

This is the only thing that fits into every piece of what happened. JMO.

All JMO

 

[Marli61]

So is there a gag order on this case? Are there others famous cases that had gag orders? I have always been somewhat of a crime/murder/mystery enthusiast, but I am absolutely obsessed with this case. I think because it is relatively "local". It has been perplexing to say the least at how little has been released about it. I know that in order for CW to have a fair trial it's best that way.... but WOW. I would say this is one for the books!!!

 

[MsBetsy]

I always enjoy reading your posts, Bill. Your theory was my original theory when this all began.

I’ve moved away from this theory, though, as more information has become available. I believe that it was he who wanted the separation, and she was unable to accept it. I believe that she continued to post things on SM that were the polar opposite of the truth, long after their relationship began to crumble. I think there’s a possibility the pregnancy was a “surprise” to him, and was an effort to keep him. I also think the affair may have been an attempt to have an excuse to really leave, or give her a reason to finally let him go. It’s my impression that he had no power in that relationship.

My guess is that although in his mind it had been over for a while, she wanted to try to make it work. I think she thought they could fix things. My theory is that while in AZ, she somehow learned of the affair. When she returned, she confronted him, and he finally admitted it. He told her he was leaving her for someone else.

I don’t know what happened next or how the innocent children became casualties of their dysfunction. I can’t explain any of that in my mind. I do feel pretty confident in the first part of my theory based on what I know, but am open-minded to any ideas or theories y’all have.

Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts!

He may very well have felt powerless in the relationship, and it may have been eating away at him for quite some time. I don't think he was at all surprised by the pregnancy. In the video he seemed genuinely happy, although it's possible it may have been an act. He may have wanted out of the relationship, maybe they both did, but why not pack up, get a lawyer, and mentally prepare himself during the 5 weeks he had while she was gone? Something must have occurred to make him react in such a violent way. Or maybe he was planning to murder them when they returned. If she came home and confronted him about an affair, it doesn't explain his actions. Wouldn't that be the perfect moment to tell her he wanted a divorce? If he wanted out so much, those 5 weeks would have been the perfect time to get out and get the process in motion. Plenty of time to consult with a lawyer and get the paperwork ready. I think it has much more to do with his lack of control over the marriage and the kids. Maybe it was his desperate need to control the situation when he systematically killed one after the other. If that's what he did. Or maybe he just wanted to be rid of all three. Jmo

 

[LovesChocolate]

I think I heard this either in the news or mentioned here, that during their trip in Arizona, SW reportedly told NAU that she would need her "more than ever" after she returned home?

This makes me think SW and CW had already had a discussion and SW would be preparing for something painful and thus needed support from her friend.

 

[Madison418]

He's baaaaaaaaaack...(article published yesterday)

Man who claims affair with accused family killer Chris Watts says Colorado dad gave him money, claimed pregnant wife Shanann Watts was ‘abusive’: EXCLUSIVE

Bolte said when he was recently questioned by FBI agents they accused him of “leaving something out,” which he insists he is not. He also said that lawyers for both the prosecution and the defense had attempted to track him down at his parents’ home in Wyoming.

Bolte provided CrimeOnline with screenshots of text messages between him and Watts that appear to support some type of relationship with Watts. Bolte said they were the first text messages he and Watts exchanged away from the MeetMe app. The messages differ starkly in tone from screenshots circulating on social media, purporting to be messages between Watts and Bolte. Bolte is aware of the images that have circulated and insists they have been fabricated, pointing out that the messages indicate the two men met on Tinder, which Bolte says is not true.

But Bolte did say that Chris had given him some money while they were together. He said that Chris gave him cash on a few occasions when he was in need of financial help, and that Chris offered the money while also stating that he was struggling financially himself. Bolte said that in addition to the cash gifts, which he believes totaled around $1,000, Chris Watts bought him expensive skin care products at Sephora. Bolte said Watts paid in cash.

Thanks for this. What a mess! I tend to believe this guy now where I didn't initially. If he was lying about all of it, couldn't he get in a lot of trouble??

 

[Marli61]

I don't really have a complete theory in my mind yet, but I did call it before we had access to the affidavit that contained his confession. I said to my husband "I wonder why he didn't just say she killed the girls & then he killed her?".

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't think I saw anything saying he admitted to killing the 2 children, but there's something still unexplained behind the affidavit where he said he would tell the TRUTH after he spoke to his father. It's not explained what his story had previously been, to LE, before he decided to tell the truth. IMO

In the article I read it clearly states he admitted to killing all three. I was just wondering at what point he changed his story.

 

[LovesChocolate]

He may very well have felt powerless in the relationship, and it may have been eating away at him for quite some time. I don't think he was at all surprised by the pregnancy. In the video he seemed genuinely happy, although it's possible it may have been an act. He may have wanted out of the relationship, maybe they both did, but why not pack up, get a lawyer, and mentally prepare himself during the 5 weeks he had while she was gone? Something must have occurred to make him react in such a violent way. Or maybe he was planning to murder them when they returned. If she came home and confronted him about an affair, it doesn't explain his actions. Wouldn't that be the perfect moment to tell her he wanted a divorce? If he wanted out so much, those 5 weeks would have been the perfect time to get out and get the process in motion. Plenty of time to consult with a lawyer and get the paperwork ready. I think it has much more to do with his lack of control over the marriage and the kids. Maybe it was his desperate need to control the situation when he systematically killed one after the other. If that's what he did. Or maybe he just wanted to be rid of all three. Jmo

BBM - interpretation is so subjective. I didn't think he looked pleased at all!

 

[Madison418]

I think I heard this either in the news or mentioned here, that during their trip in Arizona, SW reportedly told NAU that she would need her "more than ever" after she returned home?

This makes me think SW and CW had already had a discussion and SW would be preparing for something painful and thus needed support from her friend.

Yes, I believe that is a quote from NUA. And IMO supports the theory that SW was the one that wanted the separation. I think she knew a lot more than people are aware. I'm curious about texts between CW and SW during the weeks leading up.

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't really have a complete theory in my mind yet, but I did call it before we had access to the affidavit that contained his confession. I said to my husband "I wonder why he didn't just say she killed the girls & then he killed her?".

Yes, that would seem to be the only way to justify his story in his mind. I wonder if he changed it after talking it though with his dad.

 

[Madison418]

BBM - interpretation is so subjective. I didn't think he looked pleased at all!

Agree with this. Especially when he says "Wow". To me it seems like he's really trying to feign excitement. However, my husband watched the video and said he looks happy to him.

 

[Trinket78]

Good Morning @Trinket78, and appreciate you being here. I've been thinking about this case nonstop, and can’t imagine how hard this must be for you all and everyone else impacted by this ongoing ordeal. It is courageous for you to be here and to share your thoughts, and we thank you for that! You have already provided so much interesting information.

I do have some questions for your consideration:

1. You’ve shared in a previous thread that you believe CW. By believing him, I would speculate there must be something that you know, some gut feeling, something that is difficult to ignore - you've seen MANY things going on in the SW and CW relationship dynamic for years, and having known CW prior to SW. With great caution in not giving away your identity of course, what thoughts would you be willing to share to those who may be vehemently against the idea that CW is telling the truth?
2. Considering CW’s current circumstances, perhaps something - or things - that if expressed in a certain way without leading to who you are, could potentially help others see more clearly that there IS in fact “another side to the story.” Is there anything here you might find beneficial to share that would really paint a picture for us of how things REALLY were, off SM?
3. What are your thoughts on SW, apart from the relationship, as an individual? You’ve shared some interesting details about her behavior around CW, and I’d be curious to know what your impression was in interacting with her as an individual; in other words, what she was like, in your opinion, when she wasn’t around CW.

These are just my own thoughts, and just my opinion into what I believe could potentially be enlightening.

Again, appreciate you being here and thank you for your consideration in answering. Totally understand if you don’t. Have a great day.

JMO

Good Morning @Trinket78, and appreciate you being here. I've been thinking about this case nonstop, and can’t imagine how hard this must be for you all and everyone else impacted by this ongoing ordeal. It is courageous for you to be here and to share your thoughts, and we thank you for that! You have already provided so much interesting information.

I do have some questions for your consideration:

1. You’ve shared in a previous thread that you believe CW. By believing him, I would speculate there must be something that you know, some gut feeling, something that is difficult to ignore - you've seen MANY things going on in the SW and CW relationship dynamic for years, and having known CW prior to SW. With great caution in not giving away your identity of course, what thoughts would you be willing to share to those who may be vehemently against the idea that CW is telling the truth?
2. Considering CW’s current circumstances, perhaps something - or things - that if expressed in a certain way without leading to who you are, could potentially help others see more clearly that there IS in fact “another side to the story.” Is there anything here you might find beneficial to share that would really paint a picture for us of how things REALLY were, off SM?
3. What are your thoughts on SW, apart from the relationship, as an individual? You’ve shared some interesting details about her behavior around CW, and I’d be curious to know what your impression was in interacting with her as an individual; in other words, what she was like, in your opinion, when she wasn’t around CW.

These are just my own thoughts, and just my opinion into what I believe could potentially be enlightening.

Again, appreciate you being here and thank you for your consideration in answering. Totally understand if you don’t. Have a great day.

JMO

i would love to answer all of those for you but I need to think about my wording. As far as interacting with SW, she had a way of making you like her. She brought people in. You couldn’t help but like her. There were times I liked her very much. I just saw a different side that most probably didn’t.