Found Deceased CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *Arrest* #23

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by ColoGirl, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. ColoGirl

    ColoGirl Well-Known Member

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  2. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    The difference now is we have a defendant who is telling his story about what happened. He has not been found guilty so since he is the only witness and he says Shanann killed their two children then we have to allow discussion on whether this is true or not. If a member wishes to believe Chris Watts is telling the truth then we must respectfully let that person express their opinion as long as it is within TOS.

    Please alert if you see a post that violates our terms of service. It is not a violation of our TOS if someone expresses that she/he believes Shanann murdered her children. Until we have a guilty verdict or until Chris Watts changes his story we will allow discussion on this topic.

    Thanks,
    Tricia
     
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  3. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hey Everyone,

    A bit of clarification.

    Please, no more discussion on the viability of Shanann's company or whether her company was or wasn't a pyramid scheme. No more digging up documents or complaints or anything to do with the function of the company. The fact is Shanann's company is not what we are discussing.

    If want to discuss if job stress may have contributed to Shanann and Chris' relationship problems please make sure it is in the realm of reality and not the Twilight Zone.

    Thank you,
    Tricia
     
  4. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    I am posting the evidence we know of again as some have asked. If anyone has other evidence to add please copy and add.

    Evidence of triple murder:

    1. Dad claims he saw a blue child on a baby monitor at night.

    2. The coincidence of two people, unrelated by blood, both reacting to something in a short span of time by losing their minds and committing homicide, defies reason.

    3. The coincidence of those same people both committing homicide in the exact same manner -strangulation- is unlikely.

    4. A father passionate enough with love for his children, to kill at the sight of them being harmed, would be desperate beyond reason to save them. But:
    a. Dad failed to call 911 to try to save his children. Even if he thought they were beyond help, a parentslove is so intense they will desperately and irrationally try for help that will never come.
    b. There is no account of him throwing off the mother and working desperately to revive them or resuscitate them. Hell, total strangers have performed CPR on a child's corpse in rigor. (Cooper Harris case). But a passionately loving dad didn't even try in this case?

    5. The dad failed to call 911 after killing his wife in a supposed fury of emotion.

    6. Dad also failed to run screaming onto the lawn for help or in anguish.
    In cases of such Greek tragedy magnitude either 5 or 6 usually comes into play.

    7. This entire scene - the "emotional argument", the vicious strangulation of two children, the father witnessing the incomprehensible and reacting with murderous fury and anguish - all of it was totally silent. Except for the poor dog howling that night. How do we know? Because the houses are in close proximity and neighbors mentioned hearing nothing but the dog the next day IIRC.

    8. CW did not scream or wail in anguish so great that it caused him to murder his wife. Not one report of such sounds.

    9. CW supposedly lost his mind in grief and anguish. However he regained it in moments in a manner that does not comport with a true mental break. In cases we have seen where people lose it and commit murder, they are typically either wailing on the lawn and to 911 operators or they are in an apparent psychotic state- not lying about what happened, not covering it up, not able to function normally at all. See thumbnail of Julie Schenecker as an example of what this looks like. Police interview Julie Schenecker after kids found dead

    10. CW, after such an insanely, horrific Greek tragedy of a scene, calmly loaded up the bodies of his wife and children in order to conceal their deaths and dispose of them. We know this because a neighbor stated she witnessed him leaving. (No reports of wailing and she said, IIRC, the truck drove normally. So no veering, spinning of tires or other signs of lack of composure). And it's apparently on video.

    11. CW, a man passionately in love enough with his kids to erupt in murderous rage when they're harmed, did not attempt to give them a burial that comports psychologically with the love and bond parents have with their kids. Death Rituals Reported by White, Black, and Hispanic Parents Following the ICU Death of an Infant or Child
    A Global History of Child Death

    12. Instead he dumps them in two separate vats of oil. Not together. No way to commemorate their lives. Concealed. Discarded. In a manner that veers from any known traditional burial rite of any kind.

    13. CW went to work and monitored the ring video of his house. After the horrific Greek tragedy he just endured. He went to work. And monitored the video of his front door.

    14. CW left a few voice messages and sent some texts to the wife he knew was dead, thus calmly concealing what happened.

    15. CW calmly called SW's friend after she came to the door and he saw her on the ring video. He asked what was going on. We know this because he stated as much and this is corroborated by the friend.

    16. CW rushed home - blowing stop signs and with beating heart, according to him- when CW came to the house and expressed alarm. The first time we have heard of a hint of emotion on his part since the horrific murders of his kids supposedly by his wife and his heat of passion killing of her, occurs when he the authorities are about to get involved.

    17. CW cooly lied to the friend about where SW was supposed to be that day and why she wasn't at home. After he lost his mind the night before. He is calm and able to work to conceal those events.

    18. There is not one hint of brief reactive psychosis or drug induced psychosis in CW's demeanor and behavior since 5:15 am the morning of the deaths, nor the next day as he gives calm and detailed interviews to the media. His pupils are normal. He is not slurring speech. He does not have a vacant stare. He exhibits no delusions or paranoia. He is not showing emotional lability. (I'm no expert in psychology but have seen a few psychotic people due to psychotic breaks or drugs and it's easy to research).

    19. CW shows no anguish, depression, grief, concern, sadness or despair during his stoic media interviews, despite having supposedly been so deranged by his passionate love for his kids that he killed their attacker. His eyes are dry. Not red. No signs of puffiness from weeping. His face is smooth and calm. He looks well rested. No bags under his eyes. He smiles. He grins. He smirks. All with the knowledge that his insane wife savagely murdered his precious babies causing him to lose his mind with anguish. And with the knowledge that the people he loved so fiercely it caused him to kill, are rotting in separate vats of oil.

    20. CW calmly and continuously lies to the media about the whereabouts of his dead wife and dead children.

    21. CW systematically works with LE to track down his wife and kids. Brainstorming. Supplying numbers and addresses. Calling people. All the while knowing they are dead and decomposing.

    22. CW is questioned and lies about having an affair. A motive in many murders of wives.

    23. SW was pregnant. (A circumstance present in vast numbers of murders of spouses or parents by men).

    24. Some people and report that CW seemed distant with his wife and kids in the weeks leading up to this monstrous event.

    25. CW was not hospitalized for any reason after this tragedy.

    A couple of things from the CO model jury instructions:

    D:01 DIRECT AND CIRCUMSTANTIAL EVIDENCE—NO DISTINCTION

    A fact may be proven by either direct or circumstantial evidence. Under the law, both are acceptable ways to prove something. Neither is necessarily more reliable than the other.


    E:03 PRESUMPTION OF INNOCENCE, BURDEN OF PROOF, AND REASONABLE DOUBT

    Reasonable doubt means a doubt based upon reason and common sense which arises from a fair and rational consideration of all of the evidence, or the lack of evidence, in the case. It is a doubt which is not a vague, speculative or imaginary doubt, but such a doubt as would cause reasonable people to hesitate to act in matters of importance to themselves.

    https://www.courts.state.co.us/userfiles/file/Court_Probation/Supreme_Court/Committees/Criminal_Jury_Instructions/2017/COLJI-Crim 2017 - Final.pdf
     

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  5. Tricia

    Tricia Owner Websleuths.com Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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    Hi Everyone,

    We have a verified insider in the Watts case. Please join me in welcoming Trinket78.

    As a verified member Trinket78 is not required to provide links for anything Trinket78 posts.

    It is up to you whether you believe Trinket78 or not.

    You are allowed to question our verified insiders but verified insiders are not required to answer your question.

    YOU MUST TREAT A VERIFIED INSIDER WITH RESPECT. If you disagree with any VI, including Trinket78 you cannot become snarky, rude, or sarcastic.

    If you don't agree with what a VI is saying then scroll on by. Move on. Problem solved.

    In this case, we have a suspect who is telling a much different story than what prosecutors say happened. Both sides are allowed to be discussed as long as you all do so in a respectful manner.

    Thank you.

    The Watts thread will be open by 7:30 AM Mountain time.

    Tricia
     
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  6. PommyMommy

    PommyMommy #ShinelikeShanann

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  7. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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    This is my current theory**, and I'm doing research to see how common this is. MOO.

    * I will caution our VI's that they might want to scroll through this post.

    [**Every time that I start typing my theory, I talk myself out of it because every theory seems to conflict with this or that evidence that we know, but here goes...]

    One of them killed the children--I find it unimaginable that either would do it. However, based upon the way things turned out, I am going to assume that CW did it. And here's why....

    I'm going to assume that if someone asked for a separation, it was SW rather than CW. (I won't go into all of the details at this point, but I suspect that SW wanted out. That's why she spent 5 or 6 weeks in NC with family---to confirm that this is what she wanted. Maybe it had to do with discovering he had an affair, or whatever.)

    I going to assume that CW loved SW, and he loved the children even more. The six week separation from SW and the children was extremely painful for him. (Remember what he said in the interview about the quiet house? That's what he lived for five weeks.)

    I think that SW told him when he went to NC that she wanted a separation (that's why he seemed distant and uninvolved.) She told him she was moving to NC and taking the girls.

    I think the pain of of the thought of losing SW and the girls seemed to CW to be unendurable. He had one last weekend alone with the children while she was in AZ, and he stewed over it.

    I think when she got back, he begged her not to go, and she told him she was sure she wanted a divorce and she was going to start packing for the move. I think they got into an argument or fight, and I don't have to explain what happened next. Alternatively, if he knew she was coming back only to leave again, the pain may have caused him to harm the daughters before she arrived.

    It wasn't really premeditated, other than it was something that had occurred to him and he couldn't get out of his mind. The fear and pain of separation haunted him and drove him to do the unspeakable.

    Afterward, he "stored" and "preserved" the children at a place that was near to his heart--at an oilfield site in a beautiful field of wildflowers.

    So that's it---pain of separation of something he deeply loved.

    ETA: He blamed the daughter's deaths on SW because he could not admit, even to himself, the unspeakable act that he had committed.

    (No, this wasn't an appropriate response by him. He should have sought professional help.)
     
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  8. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator Staff Member Administrator Moderator

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  9. Nikynoo

    Nikynoo Verified Attorney - United Kingdom

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  10. rainynights

    rainynights Well-Known Member

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    Good Morning @Trinket78, and appreciate you being here. I've been thinking about this case nonstop, and can’t imagine how hard this must be for you all and everyone else impacted by this ongoing ordeal. It is courageous for you to be here and to share your thoughts, and we thank you for that! You have already provided so much interesting information.

    I do have some questions for your consideration:
    1. You’ve shared in a previous thread that you believe CW. By believing him, I would speculate there must be something that you know, some gut feeling, something that is difficult to ignore - you've seen MANY things going on in the SW and CW relationship dynamic for years, and having known CW prior to SW. With great caution in not giving away your identity of course, what thoughts would you be willing to share to those who may be vehemently against the idea that CW is telling the truth?
    2. Considering CW’s current circumstances, perhaps something - or things - that if expressed in a certain way without leading to who you are, could potentially help others see more clearly that there IS in fact “another side to the story.” Is there anything here you might find beneficial to share that would really paint a picture for us of how things REALLY were, off SM?
    3. What are your thoughts on SW, apart from the relationship, as an individual? You’ve shared some interesting details about her behavior around CW, and I’d be curious to know what your impression was in interacting with her as an individual; in other words, what she was like, in your opinion, when she wasn’t around CW.
    These are just my own thoughts, and just my opinion into what I believe could potentially be enlightening.

    Again, appreciate you being here and thank you for your consideration in answering. Totally understand if you don’t. Have a great day.

    JMO
     
  11. Marli61

    Marli61 Well-Known Member

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    Good Morning Web Sleuthers! There was a question asked last night about the oil tanks that I wanted to respond to, but the thread was closed before I could answer. Someone asked how tall these tanks are & whether there are steps or a ladder. I had showed my husband one of those original live aerial views of the site where the bodies were dumped. I don't have the link. I know it was in one of the first few threads on the case. If anyone remembers where that was it would be awesome if that could be added with the other links at the first of each new thread. Anyway my husband said that most tanks are 15 to 20 feet tall. He said it appeared to him these are the 20' tanks. He said they all have steep steps. He's never seen any with ladders.

    Edit: Found the aerial video view. Will try to add it.

     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
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  12. MJPeony

    MJPeony Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Bill for your thoughts. I’ll ponder them more today.

    Maybe I’ll be able to post my own later. So many thoughts I have, so many unanswered questions in my mind.... might be hard to even articulate them. But I appreciate your putting yours clearly “on paper” to share with us.
     
  13. Bill Carson

    Bill Carson Well-Known Member

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  14. MsBetsy

    MsBetsy Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, that was me that had asked. I wondered if that might be the reason he didn't put his wife's body in one of the tanks.
     
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  15. NuttMegg

    NuttMegg Well-Known Member

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    I agree with him in that I lean towards SW demanding for the separation that night, possibly repeating something she said on return from visiting her folks, and then I suspect he lost it. The mixture of suddenly knowing he would be out on the streets possibly at a long term cheap motel, supporting 3 kids, and the loss of esteem of the AP for not being a cool guy anymore with a fantastic home in the burbs.

    The rest of it, ie the burial in a beautiful peaceful place, etc, I'm always happy to see a well thought out scenario, but I see Chris's subsequent actions as pure CYA, cowardly CYA which discards IMO any thought that he saw those kids as anything more than big heavy anchors.
     
  16. cshea99

    cshea99 Well-Known Member

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    I posted this yesterday.

     
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  17. Nikynoo

    Nikynoo Verified Attorney - United Kingdom

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    This pic is from this MSM article. It was also reported early on in the case that the tanks were almost full - which would explain why a child was placed in each tank, and why SW was buried.
     

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  18. Marli61

    Marli61 Well-Known Member

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    You are most welcome. If he could have somehow gotten her up there, her body would not have fit through the hatch opening. jmo
     
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  19. DexterMorgan

    DexterMorgan Well-Known Member

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    I actually think when she and the kids were gone for 5-6 weeks he still had to pay for things and couldn't afford to take off work and wine and dine and vacation with his mistress like he really wanted to.

    So he realized that even a separation wouldn't allow him the freedom and financial freedom to have call girls come by anytime he wanted.

    And this is why he chose that everyone had to go. Because he was given a taste of freedom but still couldn't afford to enjoy it like a playboy bachelor the way that he wanted to.

    And its also possible that he went through her phone and possibly seen something he didn't like and it sent him over the edge that night and he put things in motion quicker than he wanted to. Jmo but I like yours as well.
     
  20. MerryB

    MerryB Well-Known Member

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    I always enjoy reading your posts, Bill. Your theory was my original theory when this all began.

    I’ve moved away from this theory, though, as more information has become available. I believe that it was he who wanted the separation, and she was unable to accept it. I believe that she continued to post things on SM that were the polar opposite of the truth, long after their relationship began to crumble. I think there’s a possibility the pregnancy was a “surprise” to him, and was an effort to keep him. I also think the affair may have been an attempt to have an excuse to really leave, or give her a reason to finally let him go. It’s my impression that he had no power in that relationship.

    My guess is that although in his mind it had been over for a while, she wanted to try to make it work. I think she thought they could fix things. My theory is that while in AZ, she somehow learned of the affair. When she returned, she confronted him, and he finally admitted it. He told her he was leaving her for someone else.

    I don’t know what happened next or how the innocent children became casualties of their dysfunction. I can’t explain any of that in my mind. I do feel pretty confident in the first part of my theory based on what I know, but am open-minded to any ideas or theories y’all have.

    Again, thank you for sharing your thoughts!
     
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