MD - Multiple Victims reported in shooting in Maryland suburb, 20 Sept 2018

[K_Z]

There had been some kind of "town hall meeting" of employees before the time clock incident. Then she left the building, went home, retrieved a handgun and 3 magazines, pepper spray, and handcuffs. She fired a total of 13 rounds from her 9mm glock-- 2 at her own head. She shot 6 people, killing 3.

Add to her major stressors that she had been in this new temporary job less than 2 weeks. New co-workers, new commute, new task responsibilities at the new job, mounting legal issues from the traffic violations, long term history of mental illness, depression, bipolar disorder, gender dysphoria, etc.

ABERDEEN, Md. — A woman who shot three people dead at a Rite Aid distribution center in Maryland was a disgruntled employee who had been working there for less than two weeks, authorities said.

Woman Who Killed 3 People at Rite Aid Center Was a Disgruntled Worker

The 26-year-old woman who killed three people at a Rite Aid distribution center before fatally turning the gun on herself had a history of mental illness, police said in a news conference Friday. Harford County Sheriff Jeffrey Gahler said family and friends of Snochia Moseley told investigators she was "increasingly agitated" and that they were "concerned for her well-being."

"I don't want to go into specifics about her medical condition but she was diagnosed with a mental illness," Gahler said.

Maryland shooter had a history of mental illness, police say

Troi Coley, who described herself as a close friend of Moseley’s since high school, said Moseley had suffered from bipolar disorder and struggled since early in high school with severe depression, partly connected to her feelings of not being accepted when she first came out as a gay female and later as transgender.

“This is a girl who was depressed most of her life because she couldn’t accept herself to be who she was after she came out as gay, and she thought nobody else could accept her either,” said Coley, now an intern at CharmTV, a cable station run by Baltimore City government. “Snochia went through a lot of changes, but just could never really accept who she was. She just felt like she wasn’t accepted by anybody.”

Three victims in fatal shooting at Rite Aid Maryland distribution center identified

Given her mental health and transgender history, it's extremely likely she was taking one or more legally prescribed meds (such as anti depressants, bipolar meds such as lithium, or transgender hormones), with the possibility that she was also taking illicit substances.

Toxicology tests take about 6 weeks to come back.Quite frankly, this will have moved out of the news cycle by then-- particularly because the narrative is more about sympathy for the "struggles" of the homicidal attacker than the 6 unfortunate victims she shot in a fully premeditated manner. IMO.

Was she under medical supervision at all?

When was the last time she saw any medical or mental health provider?

Was she required to undergo drug testing for employment?

IMO, this pattern of behavior (given her unique medical and mental health history) is not purely "randomly" homicidal.

I strongly suspect that this woman's abrupt mental health/ personality deterioration was augmented by pharmacology.

I'm interested in the toxicology report-- if it ever makes the news. But I suspect she and the victims will be ignored/ forgotten by the media in the 6 weeks it will take to get the results.

 

[Woodland]

Interesting speculation on hormone therapy possibly behind this preparation and decision to kill co-workers. Does that mean SM was possibly/maybe/kinda of the same mind as the countless men that shoot co-workers and numerous others for no reason? Or would the diagnosis of a mental illness about 2 years ago have played a larger role? Idk.

 

[Inthedetails]

Interesting speculation on hormone therapy possibly behind this preparation and decision to kill co-workers. Does that mean SM was possibly/maybe/kinda of the same mind as the countless men that shoot co-workers and numerous others for no reason? Or would the diagnosis of a mental illness about 2 years ago have played a larger role? Idk.

I don't think the issues can be separated - both the mental health issues and the supposed hormone therapy were entwined in the same person. Everything going on with the person is linked, ykwim? I don't know that "one" thing can be determined to be the "one" cause. (Are the mental health issues and hormones therapy confirmed? I'm assuming this is all speculation or the moment.)

If the hormones create hair-trigger rage, then patients must be counseled about that. Maybe they are? IDK.

speculation. Jmo

 

[LadyL]

page is gone now

Snochia Moseley

 

[K_Z]

I don't think the issues can be separated - both the mental health issues and the supposed hormone therapy were entwined in the same person. Everything going on with the person is linked, ykwim? I don't know that "one" thing can be determined to be the "one" cause. (Are the mental health issues and hormones therapy confirmed? I'm assuming this is all speculation or the moment.)

If the hormones create hair-trigger rage, then patients must be counseled about that. Maybe they are? IDK.

speculation. Jmo

Exactly. The management of meds and therapy with all bi polar and severely depressed patients requires close medical attention by a multidisciplinary team, and regular supervision-- and adding in transgender transition hormones makes the situation even more dicey.

It's a rare, rare bipolar patient that doesn't "need" any meds at all. Especially in their teens and 20's. The diagnosis (properly made diagnosis) mandates treatment. BPD is not a situational thing-- it's a life long condition, and cannot be "cured". Management is the goal, and that means regular, life long, multidisciplinary care.

If this woman was indeed seeking to take "hormones" for transgender transition (as quoted by her friends and social media above), her situation was medically very complicated.

I wonder if she was refused testosterone because of her bipolar meds/ disease, and that set in motion behaviors that produced her mental decline?

The internet is full of blogs and discussions, including scholarly papers on the serious difficulties of managing mental illness, meds for optimizing mental health in those with mental illness, and elective hormones for transition.

Some clinics will not prescribe injectable testosterone at all for those with bipolar disease-- only low dose patches, because of the risks associated with deteriorating mental health. And low dose patches most of the time don't produce the body changes the person desires. Or they require lots of appointments and evaluations, and compliance with other therapies, before they will prescribe any testosterone.

And because of this, "some" people on the internet freely admit to going off their bipolar meds, and moving, or seeking a new clinic that doesn't know their mental health history, so they can be prescribed testosterone. Or they get injectable testosterone illicitly and self medicate.

Was SM already on bipolar and depression meds? Her friend says she was diagnosed in high school. That would be approximately a 10 year history of BPD and depression.

Did she continue to take mental health meds as directed?

Did she stop her regular bipolar and depression meds on her own so as to be a "better candidate" for prescribed testosterone?

Did she obtain injectable testosterone illicitly?

Was she being managed by a multidisciplinary medical team?

I don't think this was purely a mental health deterioration, or garden variety impulsive homicidal rampage.

Her existing mental illness/ BPD, gender dysphoria, and her stated desire to seek transition hormones is a huge part of this homicidal rampage, IMO.

If she was under care by medical professionals, that is a hugely concerning piece of this, IMO. It's not hard to imagine the lawsuits families and victims might bring in the aftermath.

 

[Inthedetails]

Exactly. The management of meds and therapy with all bi polar and severely depressed patients requires close medical attention by a multidisciplinary team, and regular supervision-- and adding in transgender transition hormones makes the situation even more dicey.

It's a rare, rare bipolar patient that doesn't "need" any meds at all. Especially in their teens and 20's. The diagnosis (properly made diagnosis) mandates treatment. BPD is not a situational thing-- it's a life long condition, and cannot be "cured". Management is the goal, and that means regular, life long, multidisciplinary care.

If this woman was indeed seeking to take "hormones" for transgender transition (as quoted by her friends and social media above), her situation was medically very complicated.

I wonder if she was refused testosterone because of her bipolar meds/ disease, and that set in motion behaviors that produced her mental decline?

The internet is full of blogs and discussions, including scholarly papers on the serious difficulties of managing mental illness, meds for optimizing mental health in those with mental illness, and elective hormones for transition.

Some clinics will not prescribe injectable testosterone at all for those with bipolar disease-- only low dose patches, because of the risks associated with deteriorating mental health. And low dose patches most of the time don't produce the body changes the person desires. Or they require lots of appointments and evaluations, and compliance with other therapies, before they will prescribe any testosterone.

And because of this, "some" people on the internet freely admit to going off their bipolar meds, and moving, or seeking a new clinic that doesn't know their mental health history, so they can be prescribed testosterone. Or they get injectable testosterone illicitly and self medicate.

Was SM already on bipolar and depression meds? Her friend says she was diagnosed in high school. That would be approximately a 10 year history of BPD and depression.

Did she continue to take mental health meds as directed?

Did she stop her regular bipolar and depression meds on her own so as to be a "better candidate" for prescribed testosterone?

Did she obtain injectable testosterone illicitly?

Was she being managed by a multidisciplinary medical team?

I don't think this was purely a mental health deterioration, or garden variety impulsive homicidal rampage.

Her existing mental illness/ BPD, gender dysphoria, and her stated desire to seek transition hormones is a huge part of this homicidal rampage, IMO.

If she was under care by medical professionals, that is a hugely concerning piece of this, IMO. It's not hard to imagine the lawsuits families and victims might bring in the aftermath.

Thank you for this clearly-written post.
jmo

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Worker's Compensation?

Dunno. That's why I asked.

Over here in the UK we are frequently told that people in the US who don't have health insurance are easily pushed into extreme financial crisis or bankruptcy by unexpected medical bills.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

So SM had a long history of mental illness going back into her teens. Then in 2016 she was diagnosed with schizophrenia and she came out as transgender. Is it possible that the transgender thing was simply another facet in a complex history of mental health issues?

Years ago I read an article by a psychiatrist in one of the UK broadsheets about the growing phenomenon of transgenderism. His view was that it should in itself be treated entirely as a mental illness and addressed with therapy and medication rather than taken seriously. I don't want to say "pandered to" but that was almost the implication. He made two points:

1. A very significant majority of young people who come out as transgender go through a phase and come out the other side at the end of it - effectively they "grow out of it"; and

2. In the UK any surgeon who amputated the healthy limb of a patient with body dysmorphia would be struck off, so why should it be acceptable to destroy healthy genitals?

This is the NHS's page on body dysmorphia:

Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD)

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Exactly. The management of meds and therapy with all bi polar and severely depressed patients requires close medical attention by a multidisciplinary team, and regular supervision-- and adding in transgender transition hormones makes the situation even more dicey.

Just to say thank you very much for your amazing contributions on this subject. I hadn't realised that there could be such an issue with psychiatric medications and hormone therapy.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Do we know why the shooter was described as a "disgruntled employee"? (Apologies if this is explained in one of the articles but here in the EU many US news sources are now closed to us.)

She'd only been employed there 2 weeks and was described as co-workers as generally happy. Surely "disgruntled" wouldn't refer to that brief altercation (?) she had that morning over the clocking in machine.

 

[Elley Mae]

Numerous articles state that she had pre-exisiting diagnosed mental illness, a previously "peaceful and happy" personality, and a recent onset of serious personality changes.

With the additional revelation that she was "identifying" as transgender in her social media, there is a reasonable cause to speculate that she may have recently begun taking testosterone (prescribed, or illicitly) in the past few weeks. If so, this could have propelled her agitation and aggression, and contributed to her pre-existing mental illness. (BBM below.)



Maryland Rite Aid distribution center employee shot herself twice in head, diagnosed with mental illness in 2016



Rite Aid Shooter Self-Identified As Transgender Male



Friends say Maryland Rite Aid shooter was transgender and felt alienated, but 'wasn't a monster' | Daily Mail Online

I absolutely can not stand it when anyone “cuts in line.”

It says alot<(not a word) about a person, I compare it to stabbing me in the back then saying, sorry.

 

[feldspar]

I particularly like this thread's title with the date of the occurrence as there are so many mass slaughters in the U.S. that it is difficult to sort the new from the old.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Pictured: The victims of the Maryland Rite Aid warehouse shooting, where an employee fatally shot three co-workers and injured three others before shooting and killing self

Pictured: The victims of the Maryland Rite Aid warehouse shooting who were fatally shot by co-worker | Daily Mail Online

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Pictured: The victims of the Maryland Rite Aid warehouse shooting, where an employee fatally shot three co-workers and injured three others before shooting and killing self

Pictured: The victims of the Maryland Rite Aid warehouse shooting who were fatally shot by co-worker | Daily Mail Online

So all three of the dead were from ethnic minorities and all three were very recent immigrants to the US looking for a better life.

 

[K_Z]

So all three of the dead were from ethnic minorities and all three were very recent immigrants to the US looking for a better life.

Yes. That adds complexity to the media reporting and media interpretation of the homicidal rampage.

To be unflinchingly frank, a gay, transgender, mentally ill, native born black woman going on a workplace shooting rampage killing recent immigrants, hard working, with grieving babies, children, and loved ones left behind, is a seriously difficult problem to "report", with our incessant emphasis on identity politics.

Media, IMO, is conflicted on whether SM/ the shooter is a vicious attacker, to be condemned and not referred to by name-- or is this attacker a "victim" and therefore a "sympathetic" murderer? IMO, because she is a woman (rare in mass shootings), black, gay, transgender, and mentally ill, she checks enough identity politics and SJW "boxes" to be a "sympathetic murderer"-- such as domestic violence victims who shoot their abusers.

So her story dominated the media as the names of the dead, and their stories, and interviews with their loved ones, were suppressed/ ignored for days. And so, IMO, this will drop off the media cycle radar like a hot potato. That's also why it took so long, IMO, for the identities of the shooter and the victims to be released.

Media quoted some that indicated SM did not appear to "target" specific individuals, but I don't know how much stock I put in media reports anymore. I'd like to know if any of the 3 dead were involved with her in the "time clock" incident.

I also have to wonder if the cutting in line time clock incident is indicative of a culture/ language conflict at this job site. There have been articles about entry level/ industrial/ blue collar jobs where native born U.S. workers clash with recent non-English speaking immigrant workers in matters of workplace interaction, socializing, cultural customs and courtesies. It's an emerging area of workplace safety (and efficiency) research. I have no idea if this is pertinent in the shooting rampage here, but the recent immigrant status of the dead victims makes that a realistic possibility.

Both the WaPo and Nat Geo have run recent articles/ series about this-- with some backlash from immigrant communities, as well as employers. (Easily searched if one wants to read more.)

Latino Journalists Battle Washington Post Over ‘White Minorities’ Story

 

[K_Z]

So SM had a long history of mental illness going back into her teens. Then in 2016 she was diagnosed with schizophrenia and she came out as transgender. Is it possible that the transgender thing was simply another facet in a complex history of mental health issues?

Years ago I read an article by a psychiatrist in one of the UK broadsheets about the growing phenomenon of transgenderism. His view was that it should in itself be treated entirely as a mental illness and addressed with therapy and medication rather than taken seriously. I don't want to say "pandered to" but that was almost the implication. He made two points:

1. A very significant majority of young people who come out as transgender go through a phase and come out the other side at the end of it - effectively they "grow out of it"; and

2. In the UK any surgeon who amputated the healthy limb of a patient with body dysmorphia would be struck off, so why should it be acceptable to destroy healthy genitals?

This is the NHS's page on body dysmorphia:

Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD)

What you're describing is a new area of transgender research, rapid onset/ post pubertal onset gender dysphoria, that has become hotly controversial. So controversial that Brown University was persuaded by mob rule to pull down it's own research from its website, because the transgender community feels that it is "disrespectful" or "non-affirming".

Rapid-onset gender dysphoria in adolescents and young adults: A study of parental reports

Rapid-onset gender dysphoria

Brown statement on gender dysphoria study

SM appears to fit the "recent onset/ post pubertal" gender dysphoria population-- female, identified as gay around puberty, post pubertal gender dysphoria, with diagnosed mental illness, etc.

Regardless, we can all hopefully agree that she was a severely disturbed and dangerous individual.

So the ongoing societal question is, how do we proactively identify these severely disturbed individuals, and how do we convince/ coerce them into enough supervision and treatment to make sure the public is safe? Outpatient civil commitment is one emerging strategy, but it is difficult to achieve until someone with mental illness does "something" bad enough to put the system in motion.

Outpatient commitment - Wikipedia

And then there is the perpetual discussion on whether or not mentally ill people have a "right" to refuse medication, care, treatment compliance, and supervision, and remain freely in the general community. And how to pay for all of this intensive medical care, mental health care, and supervision.

 

[K_Z]

Deleted-- duplicate post

 

[CARIIS]

I don't think the issues can be separated - both the mental health issues and the supposed hormone therapy were entwined in the same person. Everything going on with the person is linked, ykwim? I don't know that "one" thing can be determined to be the "one" cause. (Are the mental health issues and hormones therapy confirmed? I'm assuming this is all speculation or the moment.)

If the hormones create hair-trigger rage, then patients must be counseled about that. Maybe they are? IDK.

speculation. Jmo

I knda got the sense that she wanted to start hormones but could not as it relates to money

there were also themes of repeated efforts to get mental health treatment but not being able to do in any meaningful manner (again money)

 

[CARIIS]

So all three of the dead were from ethnic minorities and all three were very recent immigrants to the US looking for a better life.

I dont think they were targeted - I think it was random rage

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I dont think they were targeted - I think it was random rage

I'm not suggesting they were specifically targetted, merely that it is terribly poignant that they should come, two of them half way round the world, looking for a better life but very quickly found only death.

 

[human]

Would she have been flagged as someone with issues if we had a system that did not allow guns for someone with mental health issues?