OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #34 *Arrests*

[rsd1200]

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I'm just guessing that, with they type of work KR did, he would want to shower after work rather than wait until the morning before work. But, people are habitual creatures and there's no real way to know. I'm still wondering why DS didn't stay at KR's camper the night of the murders. DS was supposed to spend time with KR the next day... something to do with cars... and had planned to stay at KR's place that night but apparently at least that part of the plan was cancelled. Has that ever been answered, do you know? Also, I'm not sure why it's said in news reports that everyone was asleep except CSr.... wasn't DR found on the floor? I believe her brother said he entered the trailer and, when he saw her legs on the floor, he "stopped right there and left the trailer because he didn't want to see the rest of her body." Also, it seems likely that CJr was awake because he reportedly hid somewhere but, I'm assuming that is because he heard gun shots inside the house from his bedroom.

I think that DS used KR as a cover for staying with a lady friend, so his then wife wouldn't know, and then that all happened, but, he's sketchy to me anyway. As for JM seeing DR, we have never found that in print, iirc. The only statement I've read, is from AM, stating he heard the baby crying, and backed up, b/c he didn't want to "see his niece like that". It was the only piece in the whole article, of what was her interview. I do believe that CR2 was awake or awakened and hid.

 

[Betty P]

From what I saw, in a FB post, was that FR left the house b/c of an argument between he and HHG. after ChelRob left. Maybe he went somewhere to jump someone, or they came to jump him so he could leave. Is it possible that he tried to stir CR1 and he was already deceased (maybe he wasn't home though)? Why would he call someone when he has a blue million vehicles and two guys next door to jump him?

Another topic, but, along the lines of argument; HHG and FR were quite unhappy with HMR for denying CG the ability to see the baby. She was adamant that he'd not see her, and that CH was going to be her father, and raise her. She flatly refused to let CG come to the hospital. KR did not like CH at all, and inferred that none of the family did. They were badgering her, two hours after she delivered, to let CG come see the baby. So, fwiw, I'm having trouble buying that fishing story at this point. Got the screenshots but, unless TOS have changed, I can't upload them.

Is this a rumor someone posted on FB?

If you're theorizing about FR's activities that night, why would he need to jump someone or need someone to jump him so he could leave? Do you mean jump-start a car? Was his battery dead? I'm confused.

I'm still not on board with these 8 murders being done by one jealous tweaker who has been able to fool LE for 2/12 yrs. It's not too difficult for LE to get drug addicts to talk, especially if they're in jail, going through withdrawal. Even if they don't talk, their dealers on the outside will make sure they're erased if they're worried about snitching. Not saying it's impossible, but very unlikely. If you're looking at CG, doesn't that rule out the W family? Sounds like a red herring.

Why don't you ask one of the mods if it would be ok to post the screenshots. It might be ok, depending on the source.

ETA: Whatever the rumors about what FR was doing that night, he was definitely at home, asleep when he was killed. Two of the wounds, IIRC, were contact wounds.

ETA2: Ok, I read MizStery's post. I see where you're coming from. It's possible. that was the manner in which the vehicle was used, but how would they know in advance their plan would work because FR's battery was dead? I dunno, too many moving parts to that theory. Just cruising around with lights on the top would be no less suspicious than pretending you were going to help someone. In fact, flashing yellow lights would attract attention and I would assume killers wouldn't want that.

 

[pepper 34]

Possibly the old red pickup that was later sold to JM, possibly in an attempt to frame him. Odd how LE fell for that gambit hook line and sinker, no? Still need to know more about the guy who owned that red pickup at the time of the murders. Everyone just ignores him. He's important.

ETA: I also think other people and vehicles were involved that night. Three guys and a pick-up truck seems pretty small. There had to be back up assistance in case things went south.

I'm also assuming these people either used burner phones or went without doing much communication. Two shooters walking a mile or more down the road to shoot more people at DR's, etc. seems pretty risky. Someone drives by, they have to hide in the woods. How does red pickup truck guy know they're finished or where to pick them up?

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"How does red pickup truck guy know they're finished or where to pick them up?"
(burner phones)
"Two shooters walking a mile or more down the road..."
It's not that far (pastor who filmed himself driving that road said it's 1/4 mile but, I agree it's unlikely they walked it because it was a chance they didn't need to take, imo. I just like to consider multiple possibilities to see if they sink or swim and this one sinks (or stinks once I gave it more thought.)
However, 3 of the houses were right along that one little stretch of road with DR's being about 1/4 mile away so I don't think they needed more than one driver and one vehicle and a car would not be a good choice due to crowding and blood transfer. A pickup truck is plenty big enough for 3 guys:
https://www.usrack.com/instructions/truck_bed_length_definitions.pdf

I'm sorry, but I missed any previous information about a red pick-up truck so can someone take the time to quickly put the basics here? ... or let me know how to get into the old threads which I can't seem to access and I'll look it all up myself. Looks like I have a lot of info I missed.

 

[Betty P]

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"How does red pickup truck guy know they're finished or where to pick them up?"
(burner phones)
"Two shooters walking a mile or more down the road..."
It's not that far (pastor who filmed himself driving that road said it's 1/4 mile but, I agree it's unlikely they walked it because it was a chance they didn't need to take, imo. I just like to consider multiple possibilities to see if they sink or swim and this one sinks (or stinks once I gave it more thought.)
However, 3 of the houses were right along that one little stretch of road with DR's being about 1/4 mile away so I don't think they needed more than one driver and one vehicle and a car would not be a good choice due to crowding and blood transfer. A pickup truck is plenty big enough for 3 guys:
https://www.usrack.com/instructions/truck_bed_length_definitions.pdf

I'm sorry, but I missed any previous information about a red pick-up truck so can someone take the time to quickly put the basics here? ... or let me know how to get into the old threads which I can't seem to access and I'll look it all up myself. Looks like I have a lot of info I missed.

When James Manley was arrested in May 2017 for removing and destroying a GPS tracker from the truck he was driving an older red pickup truck

Brother of Pike County massacre victim arrested, charged with evidence tampering

The arrest warrant claimed the GPS device was placed on the truck because it had been used in connection with a murder. It was a red pick-up truck. LE also announced that they had placed a similar GPS device on Jake Wagner's vehicle.

A couple of our members here did some research on the license tag and the truck and discovered that a male who lived in an area just north of the W family owned the truck at the time of the Rhoden murders. The truck had also been owned previously by a local woman who went to jail for several years shooting her dentist husband. (I theorized the truck may have spent an extended amount of time in an LE impound lot). The truck had an odd pattern of mileage accrual prior to someone selling it to JM, which may have been due to someone messing with the odometer. It's the belief of many here that someone sold that truck to JM in order to frame him for murders. Either way, LE claiming the truck was involved in a murder indicates it was used the night of the Rhoden murders.

ETA: Good theory about the use of a pickup truck. It would be easy to clean out and would not stand out. Re the impound lot theory, some have speculated that Joseph Deangelo, the Golden State Killer, used vehicles from the police impound lot to commit many of his rapes, making it difficult for LE to pin down any one car to the suspect. Just spitballing.

I sympathize about trying to get into the old threads. I spent an hour or so trying to do that last night. If you can get back to the threads in the #20s, some of them have a list of links to the earlier threads around 1 through 15 or so on the first page. We need to update the first page of this thread to include them all.

 

[rsd1200]

Is this a rumor someone posted on FB?

If you're theorizing about FR's activities that night, why would he need to jump someone or need someone to jump him so he could leave? Do you mean jump-start a car? Was his battery dead? I'm confused.

I'm still not on board with these 8 murders being done by one jealous tweaker who has been able to fool LE for 2/12 yrs. It's not too difficult for LE to get drug addicts to talk, especially if they're in jail, going through withdrawal. Even if they don't talk, their dealers on the outside will make sure they're erased if they're worried about snitching. Not saying it's impossible, but very unlikely. If you're looking at CG, doesn't that rule out the W family? Sounds like a red herring.

Why don't you ask one of the mods if it would be ok to post the screenshots. It might be ok, depending on the source.

ETA: Whatever the rumors about what FR was doing that night, he was definitely at home, asleep when he was killed. Two of the wounds, IIRC, were contact wounds.

ETA2: Ok, I read MizStery's post. I see where you're coming from. It's possible. that was the manner in which the vehicle was used, but how would they know in advance their plan would work because FR's battery was dead? I dunno, too many moving parts to that theory. Just cruising around with lights on the top would be no less suspicious than pretending you were going to help someone. In fact, flashing yellow lights would attract attention and I would assume killers wouldn't want that.

I'm saying, maybe FR and HHG weren't original targets, but, due to the argument and/or jumping a battery that he saw something, and they became targets. ETA: These aren't likely folks who'd call a garage or AAA to come jump them. These folks are garage folks. Just pull another vehicle up next to the dead one and jump your car, or, use a jump box. I've never had to call a service for a jump.

As for the other part, it's posted on FB, so, if we believe that one family was angry over child custody, why not believe another family was? I personally don't believe this was about child custody though, just tossing out another theory.

 

[pepper 34]

When James Manley was arrested in May 2017 for removing and destroying a GPS tracker from the truck he was driving an older red pickup truck

Brother of Pike County massacre victim arrested, charged with evidence tampering

The arrest warrant claimed the GPS device was placed on the truck because it had been used in connection with a murder. It was a red pick-up truck. LE also announced that they had placed a similar GPS device on Jake Wagner's vehicle.

A couple of our members here did some research on the license tag and the truck and discovered that a male who lived in an area just north of the W family owned the truck at the time of the Rhoden murders. The truck had also been owned previously by a local woman who went to jail for several years shooting her dentist husband. (I theorized the truck may have spent an extended amount of time in an LE impound lot). The truck had an odd pattern of mileage accrual prior to someone selling it to JM, which may have been due to someone messing with the odometer. It's the belief of many here that someone sold that truck to JM in order to frame him for murders. Either way, LE claiming the truck was involved in a murder indicates it was used the night of the Rhoden murders.

ETA: Good theory about the use of a pickup truck. It would be easy to clean out and would not stand out. Re the impound lot theory, some have speculated that Joseph Deangelo, the Golden State Killer, used vehicles from the police impound lot to commit many of his rapes, making it difficult for LE to pin down any one car to the suspect. Just spitballing.

I sympathize about trying to get into the old threads. I spent an hour or so trying to do that last night. If you can get back to the threads in the #20s, some of them have a list of links to the earlier threads around 1 through 15 or so on the first page. We need to update the first page of this thread to include them all.

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Thank you for all that information. That is very suspicious. I'm sure LE removed some bolts from the bed of the pickup and tested in the openings created... any cracks and seams, etc. It probably got a bleach bath and a good, long rinse if it was used to murder the R family. I'm not sure I agree that LE saying the red truck was used in a murder necessarily means the truck was used the night the R's were killed though. Can you explain your thoughts on that point so I can see how you're theory might be true? I had stopped following this subject before JM was arrested for tampering with GPS device so missed everything from there on. Great idea to update this Thread One to link to the old threads... how can we ask if this is possible?

 

[pepper 34]

I'm saying, maybe FR and HHG weren't original targets, but, due to the argument and/or jumping a battery that he saw something, and they became targets. ETA: These aren't likely folks who'd call a garage or AAA to come jump them. These folks are garage folks. Just pull another vehicle up next to the dead one and jump your car, or, use a jump box. I've never had to call a service for a jump.

As for the other part, it's posted on FB, so, if we believe that one family was angry over child custody, why not believe another family was? I personally don't believe this was about child custody though, just tossing out another theory.

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I don't believe the child custody theory either. There would be no need, imo, to destroy the entire family over that. KR or GR would have no claim on any child... unless you want to assume that both of them "got in the way" that night. If they both did? Then LE would probably not be saying it was "well planned." I don't know why but I think everyone who was killed was killed as per the original plan. But, it is interesting to speculate if "this one" or "that one" may have gotten in the way. I'm not sure why I never gave that any thought before but I suppose you have to if you want to properly test all possibilities.

 

[rsd1200]

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I don't believe the child custody theory either. There would be no need, imo, to destroy the entire family over that. KR or GR would have no claim on any child... unless you want to assume that both of them "got in the way" that night. If they both did? Then LE would probably not be saying it was "well planned." I don't know why but I think everyone who was killed was killed as per the original plan. But, it is interesting to speculate if "this one" or "that one" may have gotten in the way. I'm not sure why I never gave that any thought before but I suppose you have to if you want to properly test all possibilities.

My theory from the get go was that this was either a drug dealing game gone really bad, or, someone had a very personal issue with this family, be it familial, or otherwise, that created a hate strong enough to risk killing them, for a reason(s) we just do not know.

No one knows, what goes on in folks private lives, but those who are living it. We see only a tiny part, of folk's lives, not the whole.

 

[Betty P]

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Thank you for all that information. That is very suspicious. I'm sure LE removed some bolts from the bed of the pickup and tested in the openings created... any cracks and seams, etc. It probably got a bleach bath and a good, long rinse if it was used to murder the R family. I'm not sure I agree that LE saying the red truck was used in a murder necessarily means the truck was used the night the R's were killed though. Can you explain your thoughts on that point so I can see how you're theory might be true? I had stopped following this subject before JM was arrested for tampering with GPS device so missed everything from there on. Great idea to update this Thread One to link to the old threads... how can we ask if this is possible?

The murder rate in Pike County is very low. There are very few other murders that have taken place in the county in which the truck could be used. One would also expect that a search warrant for placement of the GPS devices would likely need to specify a reason to link the truck, the current owner and the specific murder in question. Unless James Manley and Jake Wagner have been linked to other murders in Pike County, it seems the Rhoden murders are the logical conclusion.

The big question I'm still wondering about is why BCI and PCSO waited over a year to set up a sting so they could examine the red pickup truck. Why did they wait so long and choose to focus their search warrant and arrest on someone who didn't own the truck at the time of the murders?

Why not do it a year earlier, when any remaining evidence would be fresh and the person most likely driving it that night still owned it?

 

[pepper 34]

My theory from the get go was that this was either a drug dealing game gone really bad, or, someone had a very personal issue with this family, be it familial, or otherwise, that created a hate strong enough to risk killing them, for a reason(s) we just do not know.

No one knows, what goes on in folks private lives, but those who are living it. We see only a tiny part, of folk's lives, not the whole.

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I agree and think this strikes very close to home. I have never been able to get the idea out of my mind that CSr's purchase of that last piece of property somehow plays into the murders. I seem to remember there was trouble/bad feelings over who was going to be "lucky enough" to move in there and I also think it signified a full intent to increase involvement in growing weed. DR and her kids "won" and moved in and it breaks my heart that her (DR's) obvious excitement and happiness to be decorating, probably what was the nicest home of her life, should end so soon the way it did. I just think that piece of property somehow ties in and broke some other sort of financial promise. (No longer had enough money or SAID he no longer had enough money to do something he'd promised he would do.) And he said it to the wrong people who had already been patient... this was the last straw. "Wrong people" are known and may have been helped, with information from one or two other family members imo. (or they knew ahead of time and did nothing to stop it)

 

[pepper 34]

The murder rate in Pike County is very low. There are very few other murders that have taken place in the county in which the truck could be used. One would also expect that a search warrant for placement of the GPS devices would likely need to specify a reason to link the truck, the current owner and the specific murder in question. Unless James Manley and Jake Wagner have been linked to other murders in Pike County, it seems the Rhoden murders are the logical conclusion.

The big question I'm still wondering about is why BCI and PCSO waited over a year to set up a sting so they could examine the red pickup truck. Why did they wait so long and choose to focus their search warrant and arrest on someone who didn't own the truck at the time of the murders?

Why not do it a year earlier, when any remaining evidence would be fresh and the person most likely driving it that night still owned it?

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Paragraph One: Ok, now I see your way of thinking and seems very logical to me. I would not be surprised to learn one day that your conclusion is correct. In fact, I've read on so many old news sites today but I thought I saw that JW texted JM at 2 am on the night of the murders... correct? So, aside from HR, those two had a relationship after HR was no longer "seeing" JW. That 2 am text caused me to think quite a bit. I imagine LE knows what the text said and they didn't arrest JW but it has me very curious. (I suppose something as simple as "any weed around" or whatever... but, quite the coincidence as to timing.)
Paragraph Two and Three: Maybe closer to the time of the murders, LE hadn't connected a red truck to the murders (and if not the R family murders then whatever other murder it was connected to yet.)

 

[iridized]

The murder rate in Pike County is very low. There are very few other murders that have taken place in the county in which the truck could be used. One would also expect that a search warrant for placement of the GPS devices would likely need to specify a reason to link the truck, the current owner and the specific murder in question. Unless James Manley and Jake Wagner have been linked to other murders in Pike County, it seems the Rhoden murders are the logical conclusion.

The big question I'm still wondering about is why BCI and PCSO waited over a year to set up a sting so they could examine the red pickup truck. Why did they wait so long and choose to focus their search warrant and arrest on someone who didn't own the truck at the time of the murders?

Why not do it a year earlier, when any remaining evidence would be fresh and the person most likely driving it that night still owned it?

We don't know who had possession of the truck the time of the murders. Perhaps the truck had been sold to JM. LM stated in the beginning that the police would find that the Rhoden's were not the, paraphrasing here, legal, registered owners of all the vehicles that were being towed. My thinking is that JM was never in a hurry to transfer the title, pay the sales tax and register the vehicle. The Rhoden's it seems were not either in their "car business".

 

[iridized]

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I agree and think this strikes very close to home. I have never been able to get the idea out of my mind that CSr's purchase of that last piece of property somehow plays into the murders. I seem to remember there was trouble/bad feelings over who was going to be "lucky enough" to move in there and I also think it signified a full intent to increase involvement in growing weed. DR and her kids "won" and moved in and it breaks my heart that her (DR's) obvious excitement and happiness to be decorating, probably what was the nicest home of her life, should end so soon the way it did. I just think that piece of property somehow ties in and broke some other sort of financial promise. (No longer had enough money or SAID he no longer had enough money to do something he'd promised he would do.) And he said it to the wrong people who had already been patient... this was the last straw. "Wrong people" are known and may have been helped, with information from one or two other family members imo. (or they knew ahead of time and did nothing to stop it)

I wonder if the plan was to start up another grow operation at the house where Dana was living. It obviously did not bother them having them live with a grow operation since they were living in that situation just one month prior.

 

[pepper 34]

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Paragraph One: Ok, now I see your way of thinking and seems very logical to me. I would not be surprised to learn one day that your conclusion is correct. In fact, I've read on so many old news sites today but I thought I saw that JW texted JM at 2 am on the night of the murders... correct? So, aside from HR, those two had a relationship after HR was no longer "seeing" JW. That 2 am text caused me to think quite a bit. I imagine LE knows what the text said and they didn't arrest JW but it has me very curious. (I suppose something as simple as "any weed around" or whatever... but, quite the coincidence as to timing.)
Paragraph Two and Three: Maybe closer to the time of the murders, LE hadn't connected a red truck to the murders (and if not the R family murders then whatever other murder it was connected to yet.)

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Too late to edit: Correction to my above comment. JM texted JW at 2 am on the night of the murders and not the other way around.

 

[Betty P]

We don't know who had possession of the truck the time of the murders. Perhaps the truck had been sold to JM. LM stated in the beginning that the police would find that the Rhoden's were not the, paraphrasing here, legal, registered owners of all the vehicles that were being towed. My thinking is that JM was never in a hurry to transfer the title, pay the sales tax and register the vehicle. The Rhoden's it seems were not either in their "car business".

Actually, members here at WS did a title and VIN search. The owner at the time of the Rhoden murders was someone other than JM. The title change making JM the owner was processed just a few months before he was arrested for damaging the GPS tracker in May 2017. At no time was the car ever titled to anyone in the Rhoden family. Most of the owners actually lived to the west of UHR, IIRC in Adams County.

As for JM's arrest and the texts, PCSO dropped the charges and sent the case into the netherworld of the Pike County Grand Jury system. It's how the system seems to work down there. Murders, etc. get referred to the PC GJ where they just vanish from memory.

 

[Betty P]

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I agree and think this strikes very close to home. I have never been able to get the idea out of my mind that CSr's purchase of that last piece of property somehow plays into the murders. I seem to remember there was trouble/bad feelings over who was going to be "lucky enough" to move in there and I also think it signified a full intent to increase involvement in growing weed. DR and her kids "won" and moved in and it breaks my heart that her (DR's) obvious excitement and happiness to be decorating, probably what was the nicest home of her life, should end so soon the way it did. I just think that piece of property somehow ties in and broke some other sort of financial promise. (No longer had enough money or SAID he no longer had enough money to do something he'd promised he would do.) And he said it to the wrong people who had already been patient... this was the last straw. "Wrong people" are known and may have been helped, with information from one or two other family members imo. (or they knew ahead of time and did nothing to stop it)

Agree on most of your theory. CR1 may have been looking to expand his operations and the increase in money would help. I've thought about him getting killed over keeping aside money owed to someone else to put the down payment on the new place. Wouldn't it usually take more than a bad debt to kill someone? CR1 had a growing business and would be able to make his "bosses" much more money. OTOH, his growing operation could have threatened a competitor.

My main theory is still that someone was passing along the word that CR1 was snitching, possibly to someone like the Feds. Not sure if that was true, but it would make a convenient excuse to convince someone to eliminate your competitor.

 

[Dudly]

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Too late to edit: Correction to my above comment. JM texted JW at 2 am on the night of the murders and not the other way around.

The only actual mention of that text was LM saying that LE told him about it. We have no way to know if it actually happened or if they were trying to get a reaction from LM...LE is allowed to lie about things for some reason so who knows...

 

[iridized]

Actually, members here at WS did a title and VIN search. The owner at the time of the Rhoden murders was someone other than JM. The title change making JM the owner was processed just a few months before he was arrested for damaging the GPS tracker in May 2017. At no time was the car ever titled to anyone in the Rhoden family. Most of the owners actually lived to the west of UHR, IIRC in Adams County.

As for JM's arrest and the texts, PCSO dropped the charges and sent the case into the netherworld of the Pike County Grand Jury system. It's how the system seems to work down there. Murders, etc. get referred to the PC GJ where they just vanish from memory.

It is possible that the owner (on the record) at the time of the murders had already sold the vehicle to JM and JM just did not title it in his name until later on. I am sure LE knows the answer to that.

 

[Dudly]

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I'm just guessing that, with they type of work KR did, he would want to shower after work rather than wait until the morning before work. But, people are habitual creatures and there's no real way to know. I'm still wondering why DS didn't stay at KR's camper the night of the murders. DS was supposed to spend time with KR the next day... something to do with cars... and had planned to stay at KR's place that night but apparently at least that part of the plan was cancelled. Has that ever been answered, do you know? Also, I'm not sure why it's said in news reports that everyone was asleep except CSr.... wasn't DR found on the floor? I believe her brother said he entered the trailer and, when he saw her legs on the floor, he "stopped right there and left the trailer because he didn't want to see the rest of her body." Also, it seems likely that CJr was awake because he reportedly hid somewhere but, I'm assuming that is because he heard gun shots inside the house from his bedroom.

DS is the only one that says he was supposed to stay the night and do something with KR in the morning. No one else seems to know this, including KR's daughter whom spoke with him daily. He would have had to be taking off a day of work from his regular job to do that. His daughter tried to call him thinking he was at work. So, that has to be considered hearsay or rumor if you ask me...

 

[Sojourn]

What we know as fact is le knows way more then we do . and they have stated their focus .

Child custody imo is no joke , espeacially when dealing with twisted individuals .
2 boys from that family of focus have custody of their children . How the hell does that happen in this day and age ? Unless mommy is some crack head heroin addict the man doesn’t have a chance in hell .
Dying your hair black day/ days before murder is shady af .
Packing up and moving to alaska is also .

Whenever the authorities are seeking a suspect from the public they ask “ have you seen any unusual changes in individuals ( dying hair ) moving , nervousness , drinking more the usual .....etc.

It is mo Angela w has a lot to do with this , but when all is said and done she will be charged with NOTHING . Because thats the way she rolls .