OH - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #34 *Arrests*

Discussion in 'Crimes in the News' started by tlcya, Jul 29, 2017.

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  1. tlcya

    tlcya Old and Tired Websleuth

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    The gruesome slayings have rattled this southeast corner of Appalachian Ohio, a region that culturally identifies more closely with neighboring Kentucky and West Virginia than the state’s northern cities.

    [...]

    Adding to the shock was the discovery of hundreds of illegal marijuana plants on Rhoden’s property, highlighting the region’s dependency on the illegal drug trade as jobs in agriculture and timber have dried up.

    Audio 911 Calls

    PRESSER: APRIL 27, 2016

    Video Interview with Attorney General DeWine Published 8-13-16


    Minors: You may discuss what is covered in the main stream media regarding the custody of minor children. If posting snips from articles regarding the children please redact their names. These babes are innocents. One day they will google their names or those of their parents. And plenty will come up. Let's be respectful of them and the catastrophic loss they have suffered at such tender ages. Thanks.

    DO NOT SLEUTH STILL LIVING FAMILY MEMBERS' FACEBOOK PAGES AND POST ABOUT IT HERE. Just don't mention it. Period.

    Leave the politics, both national and local, at the door. There is no room for them here.

    Try to keep your speculation broad as LE has named no suspect(s).

    Rules Etiquette & Information

    CASE NOTES (courtesy of cujenn81) this link contains locations, distance, victim info, relationships and more.

    MEDIA LINKS NO DISCUSSION
    CASE MAP (courtesy of K.L.Puyallup)
    Preliminary Autopsy Reports
    Final Autopsy Reports source article

    Thread #33

    LATEST UPDATES

    http://fox45now.com/news/local/inves...sacre-evidence

    Investigators search Adams Co. farm for Pike Co. massacre evidence

    ADAMS COUNTY, Ohio (WKRC) - Law enforcement officers are searching a farm in Adams County for evidence in the Pike County massacre. That farm is off of SR 32 near Peebles.

    The case of the Pike County murders became more complex this week with investigators asking the public to focus attention on one family

    DeWine hasn't named suspects in the case. He has, however, asked the public to focus attention on four members of the Wagner family.

    Investigators want more information about Edward “Jake” Wagner, 24, George Wagner IV, 25, George “Billy” Wagner III, 46, and Angela Wagner, 45. All are uncharged.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 16, 2018


  2. Harmony 2

    Harmony 2 Administrator

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    Please continue discussion here...
     
  3. RAISINISBACK

    RAISINISBACK Well-Known Member

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    I think it has already been solved.

    LE knows exactly who did it and why. They just don't have enough hard evidence to make an arrest. I don't see them getting enough evidence unless GW or JW talks to a girlfriend/wife and she tells or until they kill again and mess up enough to get caught.

    JMO
     
  4. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    From things LE has done and said, we can be pretty sure they have

    Ballistic evidence
    DNA evidence
    Video (security camera?) footage of at least one vehicle driving in the area of the crime scenes that night, possibly more
    Cell phone records
    Text messages
    Witness statements

    Any one or two of those items, combined with DNA should be enough to convict at least one or more of the killers.

    Other evidence they may also have

    CR1s records of business transactions
    Computer & social media evidence

    Anyone else have something more to add?
     
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  5. MizStery

    MizStery Missing Pregnant Lacy P. brought me here in 2005

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    In the raid of the car dealership I posted in the previous thread that was 'published in the Charlottesville Sun'.The brief followup blurb I found on the raid never mentions the car lot owners name. The Fed's I think have/had him since the raid but his name has never been in newsprint. Perhaps he has no connection to the Rhoden investigation but I have a hinky feeling he just might have a network connection to the Piketon LLC's (My theory :eek:#2009 and I reserve the right to change it)
    Link to my post #1697
    UNSOLVED - Oh - Pike County: 8 People From One Family Dead As Police Hunt For Killer(s) #33

    So Betty information is scarce and when there is a raid the who /why/where just vanishes just goes 'poof'. Then you never hear any more.

    I think your list is accurate & complete.

    The only thing I can think of is the Fed's have plenty of informants. But perhaps that's just considered standard operating procedure?

    Just My Opinion
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2018
  6. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    The case is still talked about in Ohio. No one is marching on the capitol about it, but folks still wonder about who did this, and why.

    Personally, I still feel that someone, be it one, or all, of the adult males, thought "We got this". How many times have I heard that? Almost as many as "Hold my beer". Neither statement usually ends well...

    I think it will be solved at some point, but, and this is because my main theory is, at the end of the day, the root cause of this was hard drugs, or a big weed deal with much tougher folks, gone wrong. Gettin into this stuff is like getting tangled up in a spider's web, and ya don't know how far reaching that web could be, either, if, it is about drugs and/or money laundering. If it's something that crossed over into a federal investigation, they won't risk that by running their mouths, just to satisfy us, with all the details that they have (I'd hope they wouldn't in any case for any reason.). We wouldn't know about a fed op in the area, though, because, the feds don't just come rolling into town and introduce themselves, as it would be self-defeating.

    DNA in homes where drugs are sold, would not be enough to convince me as a jurist. I've been in homes such as those. They're covered in DNA... just cause mine was left there, or I was seen coming and going, doesn't mean I was a buyer or seller, nor does it mean I murdered someone. It would have to be someone's DNA, that could not be explained away, at all, before DNA would make a difference to me.

    I don't think there are any witnesses as to who did this, other than the ones who were there that night, and they'd have to grow a conscience before they'll talk.

    Just my 2¢ this a.m.
     
  7. MizStery

    MizStery Missing Pregnant Lacy P. brought me here in 2005

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    Amauet1 or rsd1200 are either of you on the thread?I brought the following two posts forward because they lend some credibility to my theory #2900.I would like to get your opinion.

    Link to thread #31
    OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31

    I am going to be very careful how I word this. But posters will know where I am going.

    BM was the conduit in RW buying BBL in a Sheriff's Auction. (I am going to get back to the SA so no link just my opinion)So,it is interesting that CRsr was buying foreclosure's. Which begs the question what was CRsr using as collateral;foreclosures are cash only;which bank was providing loans for the cash to buy up foreclosures?

    Or the bank loans became due or an amicable repayment method became a problem?

    OH - Pike County: 8 people from one family dead as police hunt for killer(s) - #31
     
  8. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    That $30k in cash, for that trailer purchase, and the murders taking place, on the date they did, has always seemed like something significant. 3/21/2016 purchase date, 4/22/2016, eight folks are dead. Did someone miss a deadline? Weeks prior, did someone get shorted? The person shorted sees the trailer purchase, on 3/21, and gives them 30 days to repay. They're already in hot water, but don't realize just how hot (remember;we got this). You don't short people on weight, quality, or their money. If you can get killed over a $100, someone will most definitely kill you over $30k.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2018
  9. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, most of the proprty CR1 owned was inherited from his father. DR's home wasn't purchased from a foreclosure. Which properties did he purchase from foreclosure?
     
  10. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    My internet is weird today. If something I post comes up more than once, it's a total accident.
     
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  11. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    CRsr purchased a couple tracts of land on Left Fork from foreclosure. My notes are not all on this laptop, but here is what I have on at hand:

    CRSr. Passed 07/16/2008

    CR1 Property

    #040382999999
    799 Left Fork Rd., Lucasville, OH
    Date Acquired: 5/30/2008
    Sale Price $0
    1989 Fleming MH 14x57 (appears to have been on property at time of transfer).
    As of 6/2016 Value = $6,380

    040532020000
    S Side 4740 Camp Creek Rd C-22, Lucasville, OH
    Date Acquired 05/15/08
    Sale Price $8,000
    10 x 12 shed on property at time of sale.
    At time of sale there was no trailer. and doesnt' appear to be one installed, until sometime in 2014 based on map data.


    230077000000
    4203 N SIDE UNION RD C-30
    .35 Acres
    CR1 acquired from TR, mil. on 03/26/09 for $1,800
    Taxes were delinquent on the property when he purchased.

    Scioto County
    18-0504.001
    Date acquired 3/21/2016
    3122 UHR ( Dana's Place)
    6 acres

    18-0504.002
    W/DR's place
    2 acres


    --------------------------------------------

    CR1 Et Al
    040206000000
    799 LEFT FORK RD T-312, Lucasville, OH
    40 Acres, no buildings
    CRsr acquired in 08/06/04 @ $21,150
    NRT EtAl acquired 02/17/11 $0.00
    CR1 EtAl acquired 10/09/12 $5,000
    As of June 2016 Land Value $18,370


    #230462 (M/H only)
    4077 UHR, Piketon, OH
    Date Acquired: 05/09/09
    No sale price listed.
    2002 Fortune MH 14x60(Owner Occupied)
    June 2016 appraised value $3,360

    040204000000
    Acquired under Et Al
    1084 LEFT FORK ROAD. Otway, OH
    Six Acres
    Date Acquired:12/27/2010
    Looks like he picked this up from a delinquent tax purchase.
    I don't see a sale price.

    04020500000
    799 LEFT FORK RD T-312
    Eight Acres
    Date Acquired 09/30/2008
    Barn 34 x 60
    MH
    Valued at
    Another delinquent real estate
    Property valued at 9860
    CR1 et al paid $4,000 in 2008
    It then went to NRT et al in 02/2011
    Then CR1 got it back in 10/2012 for $5k.

    04064800000
    Also part of 799 Left Fork Rd.
    CRsr bought this in 2004
    It went to CR1 Et Al on 1/06/11
    Seven Acres


    Properties collectively called 4077 UHR.
    23-011100.0000
    N SIDE UNION RD C-30
    .10 acres
    That odd sliver of land
    Date Acquired: 09/19/1995 by CRsr
    for $0.00
    Then acquired from CRsr, for $10k, from an R I'm not familar with, for $10,000 on 11/01/1995. Re-acquired by CRsr in 5/18/2004, for $0.00.
    Transfered to NRT Et Al, on 2/17/2011, $0.00
    Transferred to CR1 Et Al,
    4/18/2011, $0.00

    230586000000
    Yellow House Sits Here
    N SIDE UNION RD C-30
    1.25 acres
    Listed as Vacant Land
    No property view available
    Date Acquired: 09/19/1995 by CRsr
    for $0.00
    Then acquired from CRsr, for $10k, from an R I'm not familar with, for $10,000 on 11/01/1995. Re-acquired by CRsr in 5/18/2004, for $0.00.
    Transfered to NRT Et Al, on 2/17/2011, $0.00
    Transferred to CR1 Et Al,
    4/18/2011, $0.00
    (This is a duplicate record, it seems, of 23058600000 which may have happened due to the chain of owners)

    230585000000
    (I think this is a duplicate of 230585000000 as there's no map data.)

    230587000000
    4091 N SIDE UNION RD C-30
    .50 acres
    1963F Mobile Home
    Garage 24x24
    Building (big barn/garage) 84' long x 25' wide est.
    Date Acquired: 09/19/1995 by CRsr
    for $0.00
    Then acquired from CRsr, for $10k, from an R I'm not familar with, for $10,000 on 11/01/1995. Re-acquired by CRsr in 5/18/2004, for $0.00.
    Transfered to NRT Et Al, on 2/17/2011, $0.00
    Transferred to CR1 Et Al,
    4/18/2011, $0.00
     
  12. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    And who would have enough money involved in MJ or other trafficking to have $30K available for shorting? Most of the busts that happen in the area never seem to net anything near that amount of cash. If the Rhodens were killed because of a $30,000 debt, it would have to be someone higher up the chain of command to give that order.

    Considering all the heat that was coming down in the area, why would someone risk killing 8 members of the same family in one night unless they knew they could get by with it. JMO, money may have been part of it, but there was something else the killer/ drug boss felt they had at risk - perhaps snitching. Taking that big risk meant they had info to indicate CR1 or someone in the family was snitching and that information could only come from someone in LE or the criminal justice system.

    Killing 8 people over a drug debt of $30,000 is a huge risk to take, especially in the US. Was it a hit that got out of hand or was there some sort of assurance that the killers would never be prosecuted? If they hired locals to do it, how did they know the locals would keep quiet?
     
  13. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    The properties on Union Hill Rd and the area where KR lived were properties the family inherited from Clarence. There may have been some delinquent taxes, but CR1, KR, etc. took those over from family. Not really a foreclosure, something the brothers and sisters worked out among themselves. Families do that kind of thing a lot, especially when they inherit undeveloped property that doesn't have much market value. The deceased parent has divided things up evenly in the will, but some siblings don't want the bother of annual taxes and upkeep on mostly vacant property that they don't use or visit often.

    Same may also apply for property passed down by the deceased parent's siblings, etc. The people who live in the area tend to work out a deal to take over property from siblings or cousins, etc. The main point is to keep the property in the family and have those who want to maintain it and pay the taxes. Could have been family agreement worked out that wouldn't necessarily show up on paper. Maybe CR1 or KR agreed to give other family members access to the property for recreation, hunting, etc. Maybe gave them a cash payment or a salvaged car they fixed up, etc.

    ETA: It can be a little aggravating to inherit land with siblings, then get stuck paying all taxes, upkeep, etc. with other siblings not contributing anything but still having their name on the deed.
     
  14. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    CRsr purchased a couple tracts of land on Left Fork from foreclosure. My notes are not all on this laptop, but here is what I have on at hand:
    You'd be surprised at who might have that kind of money. That fella you see drivin a beater car, crankin up his tunes, with three - four chics in the car? He might be pullin at least $15k a week, but he also may be beholden to someone higher up who demands their pay on a certain date at a certain time. They usually aren't real forgiving. I am not comfortable going into details, but, basically, product is fronted, and cash is expected in exchange. If cash doesn't come back, that's a bad thing.

    Killing eight people over any kind of reason is a huge risk to take, but, in the drug world, you can't be seen as a punk operation, or as p*ss*es who just got screwed out of $30k of product who are gonna let it ride. It don't go that way.
     
  15. Betty P

    Betty P Well-Known Member

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    Agree, but killing eight people and getting away with it for 3 years while the focus of local and state LE is on your case is a higher level of "accomplishment". More so, when the AG puts "laser focus" on some who may be responsible, then allows them to clean up the premises and move to AK. Not every local tweaker with a gun has that kind of pull, do they?
     
  16. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    Agree. I think the $0 dollar amts is where they brought it over from an old system and just didn't get money amounts in, or just didn't think it pertinent enough to fool with (I could be wrong though). If you look at the land that CRsr had around the time he went to prison, and filed for divorce from his wife, it appears that it was shuffled around to keep it in his possession and under the R generation. GSR, from what I've understood, in old records, moved away for a spell, and then came back. I may be wrong b/c there's so many folks w/ dup names in this family. The land exchanges, during that time, and why he went to prison, is why one of my theories has been a longtime burning familial thing. Most folks forgive, but don't forget, some folks never forgive and never forget, and others take it another step, vowing to execute vengeance, in the name of their family.
     
  17. rsd1200

    rsd1200 If there's no link, it's just my own 2¢.

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    I'm not talking "tweakers" selling a little bit just to be able to get their own dope. The ones who are bringing it in, and fronting it, to the mid-levels, are the folks who will nail your tail to the wall. Not just beat you up and leave you licking your wounds, but will kill you if you mess them over. You screw a mid-level out of $$ and they will roll up on you too. If it was drugs, I see this as a possibility. Cartel and 1%ers don't kill kids, and I call CR2 a kid, so I'm not seeing either of those, but, I could be wrong. We don't know who is buying and supplying in that region either. Could be anyone. Their own family may not even know. If they're smart, their own family won't know what they're into.
     
  18. Dudly

    Dudly Well-Known Member

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    According to the movie about the missing women, LE would let it be known that women were snitches and they disappeared or were found dead.
    Telling people that if they talk, their whole family dies, can keep them quiet. The locals know it happened to the Rhodens and could happen again. Something is working, what ever it is...
     
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  19. Dudly

    Dudly Well-Known Member

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    We really don't know if local and state LE is really on anyone's case. What they are saying and doing may be two very different things. After DeWine gave the "laser focus" speech he may have went back and said that should keep 'em off our back for a while, and did nothing more...
     
  20. Dudly

    Dudly Well-Known Member

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    Even judges and preachers have been caught in drug dealing and human trafficking cases... No one should be considered to be off the list of possible perps...
     
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