Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #9

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I agree, the injuries to Honey would just about rule out the idea of double suicide.

I guess police figured that, yes they could have let an intruder in, but that person would need to take a key to lock up when he left. If there are no missing keys, where does that leave us?

The jackets do seem to indicate restraint, however, if their wrists had indeed been bound, why the jackets? Again, does this suggest that Barry had at one point bound their wrists but shifted course when he could not manage to tie his own wrists, or he could not set up the belt with his wrists bound? I simply do not see why a murderer would remove the bindings? And if he did, why would he replace them with the jackets, presumably after they are dead?
Where is it said that when the cleaning person and the gardening person arrived on the Friday morning, the doors were locked? Even if those people had taken their keys and put them into the lock and turned them, would they know for sure whether they had been locked or unlocked? ie sometimes when I arrive at my house, I'll stick my key in and turn it to unlock it, but it won't have been locked in the first place.. IF I am paying attention, I will notice this,... but if not, then I just WON'T notice. I don't think police can have any kind of assurance as to whether all of the doors in the house were locked after this crime took place.

The jackets/coats may be a red herring. On the one hand, the PI team have said the couple were strangled to death and THEN hung (which obviously makes sense), while on the other hand, they mention the coats being down from their shoulders, presumably limiting their movement. In my own mind, I am thinking that the wrist bindings were used for a time, for convenience/control, etc., and then removed later, after death at some point. If Barry's legs were staged like most recently indicated, and his glasses in place on his face - but yet he was either murdered or self hung to death, these things would be unlikely (impossible?) to find that way. If the wrist bindings were removed after death, after hanging up for display, then wouldn't it be normal for unbuttoned boats to fall off the shoulders of a body that has no muscletone whatsoever to keep it in place, or to sit upright, etc.? ie gravity? I think it entirely depends on exactly the coats worn, their fit, whether they were winter coats or suit jackets, whether neat fitting or bulky or loose, etc. In at least one article, it stated that 'winter coats and boots' were worn, but in others, it has not specified. Unfortunately we only have a small piece of the total picture, from which we can't insist on correctly knowing, one way or the other.
 
The only thing we know about the injuries to Honey are that the was a pooling of blood on the floor beneath her body. Nobody has ever stated that her wounds were to her face.
I recall reading that H had 'scratches' on her face/nose. From what I read it sounded like it was really minor, and I did not get the impression that it would/could have caused enough blood to have caused a 'pool' under her. Another detail from which we are missing a big chunk of information. The PI team stated that the blood couldn't have gone from her face to the floor without more of it first reaching her torso, on which there was hardly any blood, leading them to believe she had been lying down bleeding directly onto the floor before being hung up - which indicates that the blood did come from her face.
 
I don't think Kerry Winter would be in any position to speculate about Honey's diamond collection. He had been estranged from Barry and Honey for over a decade if I'm not mistaken and I highly doubt that he would have any idea as to the contents of her jewelry box, or knowledge of the value of anybody else's collection. Safe to say she had some good jewelry, but the biggest collection in Canada? Also, was the earring found on the driveway expensive jewelry or costume jewellery?
That is kind of funny, because it seems to me like some members were taking KW's knowledge at face value when he was stating B's hatred of H, and B's preferences for the cheap meal at the cheap Swiss Chalet eatery, and etc., but yet now we are to discount his knowledge of a diamond collection. KW had no contact with B (or H) in over 10 years. It is more likely that eating preferences and marital relationships might change multiple times over a span of a decade, than for a diamond collection to change. imo.
 
I can assure you that I could accomplish #1 in very short order. People are talking like this is an impossible feat, but it is really not as complicated as it seems.

As for your second point, I agree. Any results we have heard about have kind of been combined, not being specific about result pertaining to Honey and Barry individually. Of course, if this was M/S, Honey would have been likely strangled elsewhere and then hung by the pool (secondary injuries), while Barry should only have the belt marks. This would have been the only way that Barry could stage it. However, on the double murder front, the idea that both were killed elsewhere, then hung by the pool simply does not make any sense whatsoever. Why not just kill them both by hanging on that railing if that is what you want people to believe is what happened?
I would think it might be somewhat difficult to take two people to a short railing and hang them to death, and especially without a lot more injury, etc.... but I imagine that if people were ambushed while entering a doorway, it may be much simpler to have some kind of binding ready to strangle with... and then hang. It is interesting that LE are only saying neck compression by ligature, rather than specifying whether strangulation or hanging. In fact, I believe most MSM articles do say 'strangulation'/strangled. Surely the MEs would have been able to tell which it was, in each case. More details we don't know yet. Also, 'elsewhere' may have been a few feet away.. or in a different area.
 
The only description of how HS was found differs from the article recently posted. I wonder which one is accurate.

-Private investigators also believe that Honey.... had been face-down on the tile, bleeding, for some time before BEING BOUND TO THE HANDRAIL, IN AN UPRIGHT POSITION, the source said."
bbm

- Honey, who had a blond bob and an athletic frame, WAS SLUMPED ON HER SIDE and appeared to have been struck on her face.

The unsolved murder of an unusual billionaire
I think one can be in an upright position, but still slumped to one side. jmo.
 
For me, there is a lingering question if Barry had the TPD under his thumb. Money buys many things - good and bad.

The story we have heard definitely has a few questions to it. It doesn’t seem feasible that Barry could have done this alone. If he was behind it, he had to have a helper. IMO.
But why would someone want to get involved? A big payout? Barry would know how to get the money and account for it without questioning.

Barry may have been so disgruntled with the idea of moving, he’d reached his limit. It’s obvious he wasn’t the materialistic or showy person. After a lifetime of letting Honey have her way, and now 75, it was enough.

Of course the children would not be aware of any of this to the extreme it really was. My concern is the children would immediately be informed, if they weren’t aware of it, if this was ruled suicide, there wouldn’t be any life insurance payout. Many common policies are written this way. I don’t know about ones written for the wealthy.

The point being it would benefit the children immensely
to hire their own private investigator. They had too much to loose.

My opinions only.
 
IMO, its not about life insurance. If the Shermans had life insurance, it was probably purchased many years ago. Many policies will not cover suicide that occurs within a time period, usually two years. Once that time period is over, it will pay out as with any other illness.

Not sure that Billionaires need/would pay for life insurance.

We must remember that BS wouldnt drive a new-ish car, was not a keeping up with the Jones' type of guy. He was known to be frugal, so why would he spend money on life insurance when he could make money much faster by working for a few hours??

IMO, life insurance is NOT necessarily for the wealthy, its for those whose family will suffer without their income when they die.

BS & HS were worth over $5Billion. More money than they could spend in ten lifetimes.

Their children are not going to go without, if they are the heirs to a portion of $5Billion.

Yes, people CAN always want more but IMO that has nothing to do with these murders.
 
Re:^^^^ I have just googled if ultra wealthy people have life insurance and its mostly a Yes.

They have it for reasons other than replacing their income, or as an adjunct.

There are death taxes that need paying, the life insurance policy can be liquidated for that and for funeral expenses.

Most leave their kids trust funds and may want to top it up with life insurance moneys.

Most ultra wealthy Americans have worked very hard for their money and realize that 'needs' can change, therefore want some money for the family to fall back on if/when the 'needs' change.

Not ALL ultra wealthy do carry life insurance but many do.

Huffington Post
 
Andreww, have you ever tried to move a corpse? Even seen one being moved?
There is a reason for the phrase, 'dead weight'.
I understand that fully. But remember that if Barry did this, he had all the time in the world to get this done. Yes, moving a corpse from one side of the house would be hard, but if you move it 10 feet at a time it would be fairly manageable.
 
Re:^^^^ I have just googled if ultra wealthy people have life insurance and its mostly a Yes.

They have it for reasons other than replacing their income, or as an adjunct.

There are death taxes that need paying, the life insurance policy can be liquidated for that and for funeral expenses.

Most leave their kids trust funds and may want to top it up with life insurance moneys.

Most ultra wealthy Americans have worked very hard for their money and realize that 'needs' can change, therefore want some money for the family to fall back on if/when the 'needs' change.

Not ALL ultra wealthy do carry life insurance but many do.

Huffington Post
Just a couple of points. Barry was smart and efficient. Life insurance is a losing proposition, that's why insurance companies make so much money. Barry seems like the type of person that would recognize that putting insurance funds in to a solid investment would be a far more efficient way to pass his money on to his loved ones. Taxes and funeral expenses are a drop in the bucket, I believe its .5% in Ontario. Barry's kids would have no worries.

As for insurance paying off on suicide, it is an option that can be written in to a policy. My brothers family received an insurance payout when he ended his life.
 
I recall reading that H had 'scratches' on her face/nose. From what I read it sounded like it was really minor, and I did not get the impression that it would/could have caused enough blood to have caused a 'pool' under her. Another detail from which we are missing a big chunk of information. The PI team stated that the blood couldn't have gone from her face to the floor without more of it first reaching her torso, on which there was hardly any blood, leading them to believe she had been lying down bleeding directly onto the floor before being hung up - which indicates that the blood did come from her face.
 
For a "pool" of blood, in this particular case, I would guess, a nose bleed. Maybe her face was forced into the tiled floor. Could be a cut lip too.
 
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I would think it might be somewhat difficult to take two people to a short railing and hang them to death, and especially without a lot more injury, etc.... but I imagine that if people were ambushed while entering a doorway, it may be much simpler to have some kind of binding ready to strangle with... and then hang. It is interesting that LE are only saying neck compression by ligature, rather than specifying whether strangulation or hanging. In fact, I believe most MSM articles do say 'strangulation'/strangled. Surely the MEs would have been able to tell which it was, in each case. More details we don't know yet. Also, 'elsewhere' may have been a few feet away.. or in a different area.
Adrenaline?
 
Clearly deciding it was a simple murder suicide in the beginning is what set TPS on that path.
My trouble with this perspective is that it assumes a large and diverse team of individuals in a big city police force, that deals with dozens of homicides and suicides annually, could possible all simultaneously adopt one assumption and never deviate from it.

Here on Websleuths, we see the vast diversity of perspectives on every conceivable subject. How can it be assumed that it would be different with an organization of highly trained and experienced professionals, that they could possible all adopt the same blinders simultaneously, all agree, and no one question or debate the initial assumption? This is Toronto we are talking about, not Manitowoc County, Wis., population 80,000, annual murder rate 0.
 
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