Canada - Barry, 75, & Honey Sherman, 70, found dead, Toronto, 15 Dec 2017 #10

[casesensitive]

There comes a time when an adult has to take responsibility for his own words. Blaming the time it took for the polygraph test isn't doing that.

Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story.

 

[JayFriend]

I'm sorry if this has been answered already, but for some reason my email notifications for this forum stopped some time ago and I've been out of touch.

I remember Kerry Winter saying there will be some story appearing imminently that will reveal a lot. I never saw anything and lost touch due to no more notifications. Did such an article ever appear, is there a link, or is this still a mystery?

 

[andreww]

How old were the children when Barry bought the business?

Did any of the children have an education that would be for a business?

If any if the children went to further education, what did they do with the education?

Were the children paying any payments on the loans Barry gave them?

Was the $15,000 a month allowance a loan?

Was the stint in rehab for one of the children paid for by Barry a loan?

Why did the children take the money if they felt controlled by Barry? Why not make their own way in the world?

Hey, I hear you. I wouldn't have rocked the boat either. But that doesn't change the fact that Barry screwed those kids out of a future. He should have manned up and done what the man who allowed him to be the success he became, asked. Barry was worth $4billion when he died, he could have easily settled with those four kids and felt good about himself. That just wasn't Barry's style.

 

[human]

Hey, I hear you. I wouldn't have rocked the boat either. But that doesn't change the fact that Barry screwed those kids out of a future. He should have manned up and done what the man who allowed him to be the success he became, asked. Barry was worth $4billion when he died, he could have easily settled with those four kids and felt good about himself. That just wasn't Barry's style.

What have those kids done with the money they got before?

 

[andreww]

There comes a time when an adult has to take responsibility for his own words. Blaming the time it took for the polygraph test isn't doing that.

Winter told Galianos on camera that he "embellished" part of the scheme. He also said he fabricated other parts of the story.

Watch that part of the video carefully. Kerry is clearly shaken that he didn't pass. Galianos starts feeding him excuses and Kerry, clearly in a daze, agrees. We are talking about events that happened decades ago. I see no reason why Kerry wouldn't start second guessing himself.

 

[andreww]

What have those kids done with the money they got before?

Not sure about the others, Kerry was quite open about the fact that he was losing money.

 

[WINDSOR]

What is the chance that either TPS and/or Greenspan group are going to issue an announcement on or around the anniversary of the Sherma's deaths? To me it seems appropriate.

 

[human]

Not sure about the others, Kerry was quite open about the fact that he was losing money.

Seems like another one was doing drugs and planning or involved in a murder.

 

[andreww]

What is the chance that either TPS and/or Greenspan group are going to issue an announcement on or around the anniversary of the Sherma's deaths? To me it seems appropriate.

At the very least there will be some press about the case.

 

[andreww]

Seems like another one was doing drugs and planning or involved in a murder.

The sad part here is that the kids, all under 7 at the time of their parents death never were told or knew about the provisions his father had put in place. That they would have jobs at 21 and a 5% ownership of the company at 23. Of course nobody was going to tell them that because that clause was taken out of the deal when Sherman sold the company. At that point the kids were still under 12 years old. I'm not sure who raised them, but if someone had taken an interest and groomed them I dare say their lives might have turned out differently. Barry probably couldn't have been happier that their lives went off the rails.

 

[human]

I believe for Kerry, an uncle paid for expensive schooling.

Is this when the love of drugs started?

What happened with the expensive education?

 

[MistyWaters]

The sad part here is that the kids, all under 7 at the time of their parents death never were told or knew about the provisions his father had put in place. That they would have jobs at 21 and a 5% ownership of the company at 23. Of course nobody was going to tell them that because that clause was taken out of the deal when Sherman sold the company. At that point the kids were still under 12 years old. I'm not sure who raised them, but if someone had taken an interest and groomed them I dare say their lives might have turned out differently. Barry probably couldn't have been happier that their lives went off the rails.

How is this connected to the Sherman homicides?

 

[Lexiintoronto]

I'm sorry if this has been answered already, but for some reason my email notifications for this forum stopped some time ago and I've been out of touch.

I remember Kerry Winter saying there will be some story appearing imminently that will reveal a lot. I never saw anything and lost touch due to no more notifications. Did such an article ever appear, is there a link, or is this still a mystery?

He said it would be in the WSJ and Business Week.


Here is the Business Week article that came out after he said that:

Bloomberg - Are you a robot?

I couldn’t find anything in the WSJ after their June 29th article, which pre-dates his comment.

 

[dotr]

Unrelated, but noting this unusual and unsolved double murder by strangulation of a couple, initially thought to have died in the fire, hmmm, water, fire, air- or lack thereof. fwiw.
July 12 2018
Neighbors honor couple found strangled in burned Atlanta home
"A crowd gathered on Harvel Drive Tuesday to honor Harry Hubbard, 67, and his 65-year-old wife, who were found badly burned and covered in debris inside their home July 3. Authorities said they were strangled to death before the home caught fire."
"Harry and Deborah Hubbard had recently moved from New York state to Atlanta to retire, according to Buffalo CBS affiliate station WIBV-TV. They were veterans, and Deborah worked as a nurse for many years at a Buffalo VA hospital, the news station reported."
Couple was strangled before Atlanta home fire, police say
“Unusual” case: Autopsy revealed retired husband, wife in their 60s were strangled before Harvel Dr home caught fire today. At least 50% of home is burned, which presents challenges in collecting evidence. APD homicide unit’s working closely with arson investigators."

 

[ldlager]

Is there a reason you think there was no future plan for ownership of Apotex?

Because upon their deaths, their share ownership of Apotex would be passed on in accordance to instructions in their last Will and Testiment. However that sort of information is included in an Estate file and it’s been sealed for two years by the Court. That’s why it’s not being publicized by the media.

CanLII - 2018 ONSC 4706 (CanLII)
Toronto Star Newspapers Ltd. v. Sherman Estate, 2018 ONSC 4706 (CanLII)

Surely you aren’t saying that A will is a substitute for a detailed plan for how the company should be administered once Barry was gone? The will simply identifies the beneficiaries of the estate, and I presume the shares were left to Hs and/or the kids.
None of them work in the business, and jack kay had to come out of semi retirement to help.

 

[deugirtni]

The sad part here is that the kids, all under 7 at the time of their parents death never were told or knew about the provisions his father had put in place. That they would have jobs at 21 and a 5% ownership of the company at 23. Of course nobody was going to tell them that because that clause was taken out of the deal when Sherman sold the company. At that point the kids were still under 12 years old. I'm not sure who raised them, but if someone had taken an interest and groomed them I dare say their lives might have turned out differently. Barry probably couldn't have been happier that their lives went off the rails.

Where is the info coming from when you say that KW's father had put provisions in place that his kids would have jobs at age 21 and a 5% ownership of the company at 23. I have read that Royal Trust was selling the business, presumably because its sales had declined some 20% under their operation ("sales had declined from more than $1 million a year in 1965 to about $800,000" - Toronto Life article). There was in fact a buyer who had offered almost 1/3 LESS than Barry's offer. Any stipulations were made only between RT and Barry, they were not pre-existing - they were part of the sales agreement when Barry bought Empire. Had RT accepted the other offer instead, they would have in fact received almost 1/3 LESS money ($350,000 vs $450,000), and NO stipulations about the kids getting jobs well into the future, nor ownership. What then???

I have also read that the provisions which Barry DID agree to with RT, allowed for the kids to BUY into the company, only after working there successfully for a minimum of 2 years. ("any employed child who worked two years with the company would “have the right to purchase five per cent of the issued shares of the company or companies owning the purchased business.” However, the option could be exercised only if Sherman, Ulster or Ulster’s father kept control of the business." - Toronto Life article).

[My sidenote: I wonder the cost of purchasing per issued share ? 'Purchasing' means 'buying', as opposed to 'gifted'. It seems that Barry was making it clear that this 'stipulation' was not one of 'getting something for nothing'; they had to work there for a determined length of time before this purchase option became available, and then they would be able to BUY shares up to a pre-set maximum amount.]

This does not mean the kids would each be 'handed' 5% of the value of the company (which they seem, according to MSM, to feel they are entitled to). This does not mean the kids were simply entitled to 5% without ever having worked at the company. Barry went on to *sell* the company, and that agreement, however misconstrued by the orphans, ceased to exist, period. And if Royal Trust was allowed to sell the company to whomever, then why would people entertain the notion that Barry was not at liberty to do the same at some point - at whichever point he so chose? Was he doomed to own that company for the rest of his life without being allowed to sell it if he wanted to?

Royal Trust sold the business - in my world, that means that whatever the proceeds of the sale were, those were the funds that the orphans were entitled to split and hold in their trust fund from their parents' estate until whatever age they were entitled to receive it.

How are these facts being missed, to instead see Barry as the big bad guy in their picture?

Quoted text from this article: How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

 

[MistyWaters]

Surely you aren’t saying that A will is a substitute for a detailed plan for how the company should be administered once Barry was gone? The will simply identifies the beneficiaries of the estate, and I presume the shares were left to Hs and/or the kids.
None of them work in the business, and jack kay had to come out of semi retirement to help.

Your post that I replied to referred to “ownership” but I think then you’re referring to ongoing management (or administration), which is a component of succession planning. Apotex claimed a succession plan had already been put in place by Barry Sherman. A succession plan simply refers to a plan for the companies successful operation after the principle retires (or dies) and you’re right, that’s not a component of a will because it’s an intention, but cannot be mandated after death.

Once company shares are passed on to beneficiaries, the new “owners” of private companies, especially large corporations such as Apotex, and those who actively manage it are not necessarily one and the same. There’s no requirement for shareholders to work for the companies they own. They have the option of appointing (or keeping on) the Board of Directors who are responsible for overseeing high level management of the business and protecting the shareholders best interests.

Although it’s been stated Barry Sherman was Chairman of the Board of Directors, because Apotex was a private company, other Board members do not require to be publicly named. But it’s possible succession planning involved appointing other qualified Board Members already, prior to his death.

 

[deugirtni]

delete

 

[andreww]

Where is the info coming from when you say that KW's father had put provisions in place that his kids would have jobs at age 21 and a 5% ownership of the company at 23. I have read that Royal Trust was selling the business, presumably because its sales had declined some 20% under their operation ("sales had declined from more than $1 million a year in 1965 to about $800,000" - Toronto Life article). There was in fact a buyer who had offered almost 1/3 LESS than Barry's offer. Any stipulations were made only between RT and Barry, they were not pre-existing - they were part of the sales agreement when Barry bought Empire. Had RT accepted the other offer instead, they would have in fact received almost 1/3 LESS money ($350,000 vs $450,000), and NO stipulations about the kids getting jobs well into the future, nor ownership. What then???

I have also read that the provisions which Barry DID agree to with RT, allowed for the kids to BUY into the company, only after working there successfully for a minimum of 2 years. ("any employed child who worked two years with the company would “have the right to purchase five per cent of the issued shares of the company or companies owning the purchased business.” However, the option could be exercised only if Sherman, Ulster or Ulster’s father kept control of the business." - Toronto Life article).

[My sidenote: I wonder the cost of purchasing per issued share ? 'Purchasing' means 'buying', as opposed to 'gifted'. It seems that Barry was making it clear that this 'stipulation' was not one of 'getting something for nothing'; they had to work there for a determined length of time before this purchase option became available, and then they would be able to BUY shares up to a pre-set maximum amount.]

This does not mean the kids would each be 'handed' 5% of the value of the company (which they seem, according to MSM, to feel they are entitled to). This does not mean the kids were simply entitled to 5% without ever having worked at the company. Barry went on to *sell* the company, and that agreement, however misconstrued by the orphans, ceased to exist, period. And if Royal Trust was allowed to sell the company to whomever, then why would people entertain the notion that Barry was not at liberty to do the same at some point - at whichever point he so chose? Was he doomed to own that company for the rest of his life without being allowed to sell it if he wanted to?

Royal Trust sold the business - in my world, that means that whatever the proceeds of the sale were, those were the funds that the orphans were entitled to split and hold in their trust fund from their parents' estate until whatever age they were entitled to receive it.

How are these facts being missed, to instead see Barry as the big bad guy in their picture?

Quoted text from this article: How Barry Sherman built his multibillion-dollar fortune

MANDEL: Barry Sherman’s cousins fighting for share of Apotex fortune

The reasons for his long-standing hatred for his late cousin are found in the lawsuit he spearheaded: Winter and his three brothers were orphaned in 1965 when all were under the age of seven and Sherman was 23 and studying at MIT. As executor of the estate, Royal Trust ran their father’s Empire drug manufacturing company for two years until agreeing to sell it to the highest bidder: Sherman and his partners. Part of the terms in the offer was an option that the boys, if qualified, could have jobs at Empire at 21 and 5% of the equity at 23.

 

[JDG]

^^^Andreww, the way I read that is that it was BS who *added* those terms, not Mr. Winter. Possibly, it was RT who negotiated the terms when selling the firm.