Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #37

[girlhasnoname]

I thought speculation and talk of SA was off the table here. Did I miss something??

It is off the table and I appreciate you bringing that fact back into focus Lillymac. Thanks.
ETA: Clarity

 

[Mom24]

Can you imagine how much courage it took to leave a house with no coat, mittens, hat or shoes that fit and maybe no socks? Out into a northern Wisconsin winter late in the afternoon when you don't even know where you are or who may take you in? She ran the risk of being outside all night or at least for many hours. To know that you had to stay on the road because the snow is so deep that you can't cut across a yard or a field. She is a remarkable child !!

If you think about it, from her vantage point all she sees is trees. It took fortitude to run out into what may have been a heavily forested area, she has no idea where the road goes or if he's sitting there waiting for her to come out and yet she did it. Just amazing.

 

[Lillymac]

I am the one who brought up. I was just pointing out that SA charges have not been made against him yet. If that is against the rules, I apologize, I guess I may have missed that in the rules. In my defense, I still have not read my cell phone contract either.

I didn't even see your post. Lol. Mainly referring to posts about STD's and blah blah blah! It's wild speculation at this point . There were a ton of posts deleted last night and a reminder issued. I was just surprised to see the subject back this morning. It's all good.

 

[Deerrun]

It is off the table and I appreciate you bringing that fact back into focus Lillymac. Thanks.
ETA: Clarity

Yes, I believe one of the mods asked for us to be victim friendly and not discuss SA a thread back. This is not directed at anyone in specific but I myself feel that it should not be discussed because of the sensitive nature to Jayme and out of respect. Monday you will know what charges are brought. If it did occur they will absolutely charge him no question. Thank you!

 

[Tim Constas]

I apologize if this has already been discussed, but I am a bit behind. Is it confirmed that he was actually out looking for when he was arrested. From what I remember, he was picked up within 10 minutes and the impression was that he did not even know she was gone.

Wisconsin man was out looking for escaped Jayme Closs when he was arrested, police say. Wisconsin man was out looking for escaped Jayme Closs when he was arrested, police say

 

[Pharmasgirl]

I’m sure LE will track down at least some of his friends. I’d imagine JPs friends might want to stay on the down low and not be in the press. They’re likely horrified at what he’s done. jmo

Maybe...and then there is ‘Birds of a feather...’
Bizarre that all of this was going on and his ‘friends’ suspected nothing amiss w him.

 

[Rhenish]

I am wondering why a lot of posters shocked it was his first serious crime. He was only 21.

I have to agree completely. Apparently he was quite intelligent while in high school. My husband and I have watched so very many CSI shows over the years and and have learned so much with regard to forensics and what NOT to do when committing a crime. We have also watched tons of shows regarding missing individuals. I really do not think how he executed this crime and got away with it required too much brilliance... he targeted his victim and blew her parents away inside their rural home then snatched her and drove, most likely, to his secluded residence in rural Wisc. in the wee hours of the morning. And I do agree with another posters comment that this is perhaps "his first known crime". Then there is the element of luck. IMO. ..... - also and fortunately and for reasons unknown at this point, he kept her alive and she managed to free herself. This was sort of like a "grab and go crime" that I am sure took some simple planning - "shave head" "get under the radar" etc. but nothing about this crime suggests to me that he is a sophisticated mass killer/criminal/kinapper.....IMO

 

[dixiegirl1035]

It's a crime that's fraught with a lot of potential misses and it's aggressive, highly aggressive.
It would be like making a wedding cake if you've never baked or even cooked before. It's doable, but highly unlikely.
To go from a quiet, never in trouble kid to this is a jump. No aggression reported from his school, in other words he wasn't used to "taking on" another person. It's reported he did some wrestling early on, and that would give him some confidence in being physically aggressive with another person, but it wasn't an activity he did for years. He broke into someone's private home, while they were home. Two adults. Not an elderly couple, but two adults who were both ambulatory. Guns in the homes in most places in that area. He'd stand more of chance of getting shot than being successful, he didn't hesitate, he was quick and methodical, he didn't have an issue with being in an unfamiliar home with two adults who were armed. Yet he was a quiet kid in school who never got into trouble.
Let that sink in, he never got into trouble. No trouble. He didn't invade people's personal space, he didn't sit at the back of the room carving his initials in the desk, he didn't peep into windows, he didn't steal things off his teacher's desk, no pushing or shoving, no aggressive behavior or boundary issues.
Each thing he did was crossing a boundary, breaking into a home, shooting the residents, grabbing their child, evading the police, holding her hostage for months. Each of those actions were crossing a boundary, a huge boundary, and yet he did it having never crossed any boundaries before other than siphoning gas once? I'm not buying it, IMO.

Hmmm, Chris Watts...

 

[StarEyes]

I hope Jayme's family like the Dugard and Smart families close their doors and allow Jayme to heal without answering reporters and tv stations questions!
Jayme is an alive victim and we that have followed along want nothing but the best for her!

Leave her alone!

I completely agree! If Jayme ever wants to tell her story, she can do so at any time in the future if ever. It’s such a personal traumatic experience. Telling and retelling it can add to the trauma. She needs to be given space and support. I feel her family are and will be magnificent with this.

 

[Lillymac]

It is off the table and I appreciate you bringing that fact back into focus Lillymac. Thanks.
ETA: Clarity

Completely selfish reason...it makes me nauseous!!

 

[girlhasnoname]

If you think about it, from her vantage point all she sees is trees. It took fortitude to run out into what may have been a heavily forested area, she has no idea where the road goes or if he's sitting there waiting for her to come out and yet she did it. Just amazing.

Good point. She did say to the dog walker that she was lost 'didn't know where she was' so perhaps she was knocked out or blindfolded during the drive to that location.

I've always wondered how he physically took Jayme from her home. I've said pointing a gun at her after killing her parents would do it, so he may have only come 5 feet or so into the house. IDK

 

[Ms Buffyton]

Will his court appearance tomorrow be televised? Someone posted earlier (verified attorney) that he will plea "not guilty" as it is required at the first appearance....a legal thing. My hope is that afterwards he would just plea "guilty" like Christopher Watts did in Colorado. Since no death penalty in Wisconsin he will just get life in prison. There are so many cases in our court system that drag on and on for years. I hope this is not one of them. I always felt this was a targeted attack, but I never felt Jayme was the target. My mind never want to go there. He is a disgusting human being.

 

[SeekingJana]

Could someone help me understand how he gained entry, shot both James and Denise, and managed to grab and go with Jayme in just a few minutes?

I can get that he shot the door in, which is what I read in today's news, I can get that maybe James was standing at the door and was hit through it, we don't know yet, or was shot point blank inside the house. ( This is so difficult to type).
We believe at this time that Denise was also shot very quickly with a shotgun and died instantly.

Is there any reason for the guy to have thought Jayme might have escaped through another exit? If not, why not?
This is a real sticking point for me.
What if he'd killed 2 adults to get to their daughter, and she, a trained runner, had already run out another door to the neighbor's house?

Could this have happened, but just didn't, if we believe he acted alone and had no accomplice when he took Jayme out of her home?

I want to make it perfectly clear that I'm looking at his actions and what else could happen during the home invasion and 2 murders. It is NO reflection on Jayme at all. She is an innocent
victim of a horrific set of crimes against her and her dear parents.

 

[Marli61]

I didn't even see your post. Lol. Mainly referring to posts about STD's and blah blah blah! It's wild speculation at this point . There were a ton of posts deleted last night and a reminder issued. I was just surprised to see the subject back this morning. It's all good.

My apologies as well. I was not on the thread last night. This morning I read the last few pages before continuing onto this thread. I always read the reminders at the beginning of each new thread & apparently that reminder was not brought over to this thread. Now I know.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Wisconsin man was out looking for escaped Jayme Closs when he was arrested, police say. Wisconsin man was out looking for escaped Jayme Closs when he was arrested, police say

His brother travelled with police scanner .. are we assuming he’s doing his daily activities and hears the chatter ?? That or monitor at home triggers something..Makes b line for home ... His heart had to be racing... I’m so screwed ..

 

[girlhasnoname]

Will his court appearance tomorrow be televised? Someone posted earlier (verified attorney) that he will plea "not guilty" as it is required at the first appearance....a legal thing. My hope is that afterwards he would just plea "guilty" like Christopher Watts did in Colorado. Since no death penalty in Wisconsin he will just get life in prison. There are so many cases in our court system that drag on and on for years. I hope this is not one of them. I always felt this was a targeted attack, but I never felt Jayme was the target. My mind never want to go there. He is a disgusting human being.

I would love to think he'll even plead out, but that's hard to imagine. We got spoiled by the quick plea deal with C Watts.

I was even on Mollie Tibbetts thread hoping her killer would plead out and save the family from a lengthy, emotional devastating trial.

The odds are against it I'm afraid, and yes, these defendants are disgusting I agree.

 

[SeekingJana]

NO conscience, NO empathy can also develop after traumatic events. I would not be surprised if it comes out that he’s been sexually assaulted.

No. If a child over the age of 6 learned empathy and sympathy, they will retain all the parts of their personality after their own traumatic event. It likely will be enhanced, not diminished.
SOME people will use a defense mechanism to try not to remember their own experience if someone else's is very similar to what happened to them, but this is temporary, and is not going to help them deal with their own trauma long term.

 

[StarEyes]

Is it possible this charge will be added later after LE had a chance to question Jayme? Or is it possible that since he will be most likely charged with 2 murders & kidnapping, they will leave the sexual assault charge (if there was sa) out since they would most likely have enough already to put him away for life?
Just to reference other cases: in E. Smart's case no one was murdered so they had to use everything they could against that perp. In J. Dugard's case, same thing. I'm just wondering if there's a possibility that part will be left out as to not traumatize Jayme any further. Just tossing around ideas that may not be very good ones...

I’ve wondered that and seen a few others post the same thoughts. I’d love to say they’d leave it off, but I’m quite positive it will be included, with lab results and Jayme’s statements as proof. I’m not sure it will be added at this time, though. I want him charged with every charge possible, but I don’t want Jayme to have to testify about what happened. She should be allowed to keep her life private. If she wants to talk, fine, but if she wants to never tell what happened, that’s perfectly fine, too. We don’t need all the gory details. Bless her heart, she’s still just 13!

 

[Lillymac]

My apologies as well. I was not on the thread last night. This morning I read the last few pages before continuing onto this thread. I always read the reminders at the beginning of each new thread & apparently that reminder was not brought over to this thread. Now I know.

Please no apologies. Just don't want us to get shut down. I thought they might have started allowing it.

 

[dyannaON]

I’m so glad the doggo wanted to go for a walk, I’m also relieved he didn’t find them as I’m sure he would have killed the lady walking the dog.
What an amazing ending. Embracing Jayme in love and strength. Xo