Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #38

[Waterdog]

In spite of all the talk about video games, etc. contributing to crimes like this, I really think television may have influenced him more. Several things he said in his confession made me think of different episodes of "Criminal Minds" that I've seen. For example: in one episode, a woman was shot in the head when she looked through the peephole in a door; in another, a serial killer kept his victims in a secret hiding spot under his bed until he killed them; in another, both parents were murdered and the daughter kidnapped to become a wife. There are probably others, or episodes of other crime shows, that could have given him the ideas for what he wore, how he got her to his house, changing the license plates, shaving his head and facial hair, and who knows what else. To me, the only creative/original thing he did was to take pieces of the ideas of others and put them together for his own crime. He seems to think he's a real genius to come up with this plan, but he obviously missed an episode of some show to tell him how to keep her in her hiding spot. MOO

What a head scratcher that detail of his crime is. But praise Jesus!

 

[moonlessnight]

in prison. very low association with suicide otherwise.

I agree with your words 100%. Classic psychopath. Now, he's at a high risk for suicide. A caught psychopath is one who might strut around at first, then they want out right then, then they realize they have no control over any aspect of their lives and want to die.
Many do accomplish either suicide or goad another prisoner into killing them rather than bend to captivity and loss of autonomy.

We don't hear that much about the suicides, but this type of disorder has a high correlation with suicide attempts, then success.

 

[chili367]

Ohhhhhh. Yes! Duh. That’s why the dispatcher wanted to “walk through” a map with Jeanne. I remember thinking “just put the address in Wayze to get to Jayme And while you are on the way look for the snowman to find Patterson’s cabin.”

They have maps. Waze and other commerical maps are tricky to use for dispatch because of liability issues. Though the dispatcher did switch maps around that time of the call...I wonder about the from/to.
(From way earlier posts, I am very familiar with maps and 911 dispatching.)

 

[SeekingJana]

Oops. Sorry. I’m posting from my phone and the cursor is wacky for some reason when I tried to edit. I can’t make it reach difft spots for editing. It’s hard to explain but it’s why some of my posts have so many errors.

I was going to post about Brandon Scott Lavergne earlier replying to someone’s post about how these killers are all proud until they’re in prison awhile then it’s solitary confinement and suicide watch.

Brandon Scott Lavergne killed Mickey Shunick from Lafayette, Louisiana and Lisa Pate as well

Thank you so much for taking the time and concerted effort with your smartphone to reply.

This is a case I don't believe I know about unless there was an exceptionally gruesome part like alligators, or burning them... I'll go look it up right now. His name should be easy to Google. Just read where he was in chronic trouble in Angola, not a prison to mess with, IMO.
In his photo, he has absolutely dead eyes. Scary spooky.

 

[doublestop]

They likely tried to be quiet hoping the intruder would go away.

Starts pounding on the door, while they realize to dial.

Dispatch picks up after he busts in, they have a shotgun on them.

A sequence leading to the jumbled 911 hangup is not difficult to imagine. Perhaps you are a better person and would have handled it calmly. I imagine being terrified after being woken up then hearing your husband killed and having a guy dressed in black pointing a shotgun at you is a bit stressful.

Where on earth did you get that I said they didn't handle it well or that I would handle it differently? You've totally misunderstood the question. The sequence of events described in the complaint would lead one to think they'd have been dialing the phone well before he got to the bathroom... I was asking where is the screaming in the background coming from as was reported by the police on the 911 call, and why did they not hear the door breaking down and Denise being told to put down the phone.

 

[moonlessnight]

yes

ASPD = antisocial personality disorder?

 

[kkdj]

yes

Can they be delusional?

 

[justwannahelp]

Why isn't that considered a confession?

I think it is but some of the posters here are saying they’re hearing attorneys saying confessions don’t matter if the defendant can prove it was coerced. But I’m not worried in this case because Jayme was an eye witness and her story lines up exactly with the crime scene and evidence left behind in the house. It lines up with his confession as well.

 

[gngr~snap]

Yes and not just black tape but black "gorilla tape" From experience, that stuff is tough, it is hard to even rip with bare hands. I can't recall but did the complaint mention a knife?
Dang, that was one messed up weirdo.

I put some Gorilla Tape down on the driveway to help my daughter practice parallel parking.
My fingertips were RAW and swollen when I got done.

I'm so sorry for Jayme! I can't imagine what having that on her face, arms legs and hair must have been like!!!

In addition to the trauma she had just witnessed.
The fact that she survived the trip to his house shows she's a fighter!

Moo

 

[not.a.muggle]

This surely has been discussed but there are so many posts I can't read them all. Jayme and her mother his in the bathroom and heard the shot that killed her father. If they hadn't already called 911, they surely did then. After killing James, JP walked around the house looking for people, then took multiple tries to get into the bathroom, then found Denise and Jayme, and told Denise to hang up the phone. Denise and Jayme are presumably dead silent in the bathroom to avoid attracting his attention. How does this gel with the description we have been given of the 911 call having screams in the background, nothing understandable on the call? Wouldn't they have heard him tell her to hang up, and where were the screams in the background coming from?

It was reported that Denise tried to or did barricade the door, so that took some time. The dispatcher heard "yelling" which could have been JP yelling while he was busting down the door, or Denise and Jayme yelling/screaming. When he broke down the door, Denise may have been trying to hide the phone which could have muffled whatever was going on, making his instructions to hang up inaudible.

 

[bellyup]

I’ve seen this flat affect before, from Chris Watts to BTK.
I believe he is a lot like them, a sociopath.
Their crimes are different, but it’s like talking to the same person.
You’re right, it’s not something you develop overnight, but it takes time to really see it.
I also don’t think boot camp “broke him,” I think it merely exposed him.
I think he came home the same way he left, only angrier.
I think he is an evil loser, not mentally ill.
We just see this differently.

Actually I think we agree. I would also use the term sociopath (not pyschopath).

But there are a lot of sociopaths that never kill. I do think bootcamp was likely the push over that edge for this guy. I see the development of sociopathy being a combined recipe that includes biological mental illness, trauma/ abuse and other external factors (to include abandonment or neglect).

I think the only point we disagree on is that I, personally refrain from terms like “evil” or “loser” only because I’m (perhaps) excessively empathetic toward victims and believe that in order to arrive at sociopathy he, too, was a victim at some point.

I also think when we use terms like “evil” or “monster” we are being dismissive to addressing the issues that brought it to this point. To me, words like that imply that he just *IS* those things. It seems to imply there was no hope and nothing that could have been done. I don’t believe that.

To be clear, I do NOT offer that as an excuse and absolutely believe that he should be in prison forever (sorry there’s no DP for this case actually). I believe he should be held fully accountable for his actions.

 

[chili367]

Where on earth did you get that I said they didn't handle it well or that I would handle it differently? You've totally misunderstood the question. The sequence of events described in the complaint would lead one to think they'd have been dialing the phone well before he got to the bathroom... I was asking where is the screaming in the background coming from as was reported by the police on the 911 call, and why did they not hear the door breaking down and Denise being told to put down the phone.

I haven't misunderstood.

I ask why do you think this given the chaos in the house:
"would lead one to think they'd have been dialing the phone well before he got to the bathroom"

Obvious reasons include the thought if you be quiet he'll go away.

Easy to Monday morning QB. I can't predict my reaction to such a scenario. I certainly won't second guess theirs.

 

[justwannahelp]

<modsnipped quoted post>
Maybe outlawing *advertiser censored* would be a good start for society and the “feminist” movement. But again, we haven’t any reason to tie this to this case. I won’t be surprised if he was addicted to *advertiser censored*, but at this point we have not yet learned that. So why bring that discussion in here? Y’all know *advertiser censored*, video games, incels, gun control, illegal immigrants, and now “toxic masculinity” are all hot button controversial topics so why stir the pot when none of these are ingredients in the pot at this point??

 

[Mistermagoo]

I think it is but some of the posters here are saying they’re hearing attorneys saying confessions don’t matter if the defendant can prove it was coerced. But I’m not worried in this case because Jayme was an eye witness and her story lines up exactly with the crime scene and evidence left behind in the house. It lines up with his confession as well.

All that was said is his attorneys stated that they have had cases with more evidence thrown out.
I stated that if they were going to try and get the case dismissed or thrown out that I wonder if they would go with the angle that his statements were coerced. They may try a different angle, who knows. Maybe they dont try at all

 

[jnblsm]

ASPD = antisocial personality disorder?

Not sure

 

[not.a.muggle]

I did notice a discrepancy in the details of the criminal complaint. Jayme said her mom was able to put the tape on her mouth, but JP said Denise was struggling and he grabbed the roll from her and did it himself. I wonder if he wanted Denise to do it so there would be less of a chance of leaving DNA somewhere or if it was part of his sick plan. I don't actually want to know.

 

[SeekingJana]

Why isn't that considered a confession?

Honey, come over here and sit by me because I've spent hours trying to figure out why it's not a confession to guilt. It's been said " due process" but I thought when a person admitted guilt, they just closed the cell door behind them in the absence of something very unusual like drugs, intoxication, or something similar.

 

[Lillymac]

I think it is but some of the posters here are saying they’re hearing attorneys saying confessions don’t matter if the defendant can prove it was coerced. But I’m not worried in this case because Jayme was an eye witness and her story lines up exactly with the crime scene and evidence left behind in the house. It lines up with his confession as well.

I've seen some posts saying they wish he would confess. As far as I can see he has confessed. And I don't think him being out of jail is a good idea for him. I don't think he'd last long on the street. I wouldn't even want to be one of his attorneys. Lol

 

[bellyup]

He’s about to get a whole new education, where he’s going they don’t take your psychological issues, emotional issues into consideration, he’s about to get that smug wiped right off his face. He’s going into prison as a “youngster.”

Just beinging this forward from earlier talks.

Wisconsin’s supermax prison is where he is likely to end up. It is 100% isolation. The only way to get out is prolonged good behavior. Unless he has a death wish, he better make sure he never behaves enough to be released from supermax.

 

[moonlessnight]

if they are decompensated and schizophrenic or psychotic bipolar, yes. general vague delusions are common day to day. paranoia is also very common. but this makes them disorganized and they often respond to internal stimuli. that's why they aspire to be serial killers - they aren't organized enough to pull it off usually. but there are plenty of ASPD's who can mimic psychosis but aren't schizophrenic or bipolar. Interestingly, ADHD and ASPD is linked.
The Association Between ADHD and Antisocial Personality Disorder (ASPD): A Review. - PubMed - NCBI

Can they be delusional?

 

[SeekingJana]

yes

Yes, that's the abbreviation and I keep trying to use it here and people think I'm talking about ASD. OOPS, I meant to reply to the person before you.
I'm so sorry. I certainly wasn't talking " over you". But, we agree.