Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #38

[Nerissa]

If it is the case that LE decided not to release JP's ford taurus to the public: I think that is pretty smart thinking.....this would have tipped off JP: that car would never have been seen again (& this was just about the only 'lead' they had), plus who knows: this is a perp who shot two people point blank with a shotgun: if he knew LE had that info: he might have panicked & killed Jayme too

I'd imagine though that this info RE: the ford taurus would have been circulated far & wide among LE: it's odd to me that he wasn't apprehended, though it gives me a boost of hope that they WOULD have eventually, that they had at least something to go on...

 

[WildWest]

Lurker unlurking briefly just to say, thank God Jayme listened to her instincts and escaped when she did (see Kare11 article linked below).

Based on what we do know, I don’t think my heart can handle what has yet to be revealed.

Patterson applied for job the day before Jayme Closs escape

What possibilities do you think?

 

[angelainwi]

This isn’t true.
There’s a LOT that can be done.

For starters in many states you can dial 211 (United Way First Call for help). They can get social workers involved who will work to get the necessary mental health services involved usually at the states cost.

If 211 isn’t available you have the option of going directly to your center for families and children or “welfare” office. They too, have information on how to obtain free or low cost mental health services (out or in patient).

Finally, you CAN call police on someone who is exhibiting mental health concerns. Once police are called in many states there’s an involuntary transfer to a mental health facility for a 24-48 hour evaluation. After that time the person can check themselves out.

But NOT if you immediately petition the courts with evidence as to why it should last longer or why the adult needs in hospital treatment, a guardian or someone supervising them. You can ask the judge to name you guardian or ask that the person become a ward of the state (who then assigns social workers to get involved).

Please, let’s not perpetuate the “there is nothing you can do” line of thinking. There’s a lot you can do. A lot of it is timeconsuming and demanding but it can be done and people need to be aware of the vast amount of services that are available to them.

Prefacing this as a verified mental health professional in Wisconsin. How I so wish this was reality. Especially in Wisconsin where I practice. There is only one way here to get a person involuntarily into long term treatment and that is a 3rd party petition. They are extremely difficult to get even with loads of evidence that the person is a danger to themselves and others.

And yes, you can call 911 if a person is exhibiting mental health concerns. In MANY cases the police will not take the person into custody regardless of what family members are saying. If the person can APPEAR to be in control of their faculties and are able to say that they do not want help the police will do NOTHING. I have personally been involved multiple times where 911 was called and even with my professional recommendation that the person be taken, they have not taken the person, because the person was able to manipulate the first responders that they were not a danger to themselves or others.

The stories I could tell the forum would make your blood boil! There is very little that families can do when an ill family member does not voluntarily want help. And the other sad reality is if the person does want help it can be extremely tough to get access to timely, affordable and quality care. Yes, one can go to the county health and human services department and ask for an assessment which results in a recommendation for level of care. However, many of Wisconsin's 72 counties no longer have funds to pay for inpatient care.

 

[razzledazzle]

Good Morning All:

@JerseyGirl indicated she would set up an Incel thread for us. I'm not sure when - we know our Mods can be swamped - but hopefully today.

I actually had to look up the word "Incel"back on an earlier thread. Not a fun read.

 

[pepper 34]

They NEVER said it was between the parents. They said it was in the doorway of a bathroom hallway, not by either of the parents. They found it near the bathroom doorway.

Earlier, when people were speculating

Latest: $5M cash bail set for Wisconsin kidnapping suspect

"Jake Thomas Patterson wrote in his high school yearbook that he planned to join the Marines after graduation. But military records show he lasted for only about five weeks before being prematurely discharged in October 2015 at the rank of private.

Marine spokeswoman Yvonne Carlock said by email that Patterson's early discharge indicated "the character of his service was incongruent with Marine Corps' expectations and standards."

- so there was really something off with him. By the way, i woke up to 100 posts more and i cannot keep up. Was the answer to - who called 911 already confirmed (the 911 call from Closs home)????

911 Call In Jayme Closs Case Came From Mom’s Cell Phone

 

[Gumbeaux]

That could be. I assumed it was because he was holding the gun and couldn't handle the roll of tape and the gun at the same time. But not leaving DNA on the tape is a good point - that is yet another detail that shows up on crime shows. where he may have gotten ideas from.

jmo

Some have mused if he had been posting here - and perhaps I should not even state that. Undeniably, Websleuths alone provides a wealth of information for the criminal mind.

 

[ilovechili]

It is haunting me that for 88 days, while we were discussing this case, that she was under that bed or worse. I know a lot of us thought she was no longer alive. I thought she would never be found. It sickens me.
I do feel bad for his family as well, no doubt they have countless regrets and this alters their course of life forever.
The two things I still question are why they didn’t put out info about the red/maroon Taurus (my only thought is they feared it would lead him to kill Jayme), and why it took 911 sooooo long to get to her. I would hate to live so far away from help.
I can’t believe how brave she was to try an escape. She must have had enough and thought it was worth risking death.
As with all these cases, I wish this had never happened.
Edited to add one more question: how did Jayme know his middle name? It was on the 911 tape.

I noticed this too, that it was a full name with the middle name.

With regard to response, this is just a guess, but they knew how important this was and were coordinating as quickly as possible to not lose her, anyone with her, find him, not screw this up, ONE chance, etc. IF that is what they were doing, the time seems pretty quick actually. And I believe not all were near, again, it is county and the populated area is near Superior--maybe one officer stages or runs down by Gordon on a shift, or who knows, hard to say. There may have been (total speculation) an officer near this road, who got there first before that watching cars come in and out or stationed somewhere but maybe was told to not go in until they had backup, etc. One way into the area and one way out. One chance at this big rescue--and they found the perp too. Total speculation on my part--all of this, but so long as the dispatcher had them on the line, they knew so far, so good. No idea but I do know not only did they get her away safely, they found him too, and a nation cheered. I noticed in the 911 that towards the end when the neighbor was getting nervous and asking how close, they said they were on Y. That sounds to me as if all came together or at least two before going in....?

 

[Deerrun]

@human I absolutely agree. Their approach is paving the way for her to re-enter life in this small town. They are removing the mystique and not allowing "stories" to take root that might otherwise if she were to be kept shrouded in mystery. I grew up in a small town and I think what they are doing is probably a good thing. Hopefully it will take the curiosity down a bit.

I so agree with you, very good post. They are also sharing imo what everyone hoped and prayed for for 88 days. I feel in a way it's Jayme way of saying thank you for all of the support, love and prayers. I don't understand the negativity about the pictures (so much negativity on here sometimes). I am sure their are also professionals helping the family through this, everyone has their own individual way of handling things and it should be respected even if it's not how you think they should be behaving. jmo

 

[girlhasnoname]

Prefacing this as a verified mental health professional in Wisconsin. How I so wish this was reality. Especially in Wisconsin where I practice. There is only one way here to get a person involuntarily into long term treatment and that is a 3rd party petition. They are extremely difficult to get even with loads of evidence that the person is a danger to themselves and others.

And yes, you can call 911 if a person is exhibiting mental health concerns. In MANY cases the police will not take the person into custody regardless of what family members are saying. If the person can APPEAR to be in control of their faculties and are able to say that they do not want help the police will do NOTHING. I have personally been involved multiple times where 911 was called and even with my professional recommendation that the person be taken, they have not taken the person, because the person was able to manipulate the first responders that they were not a danger to themselves or others.

The stories I could tell the forum would make your blood boil! There is very little that families can do when an ill family member does not voluntarily want help. And the other sad reality is if the person does want help it can be extremely tough to get access to timely, affordable and quality care. Yes, one can go to the county health and human services department and ask for an assessment which results in a recommendation for level of care. However, many of Wisconsin's 72 counties no longer have funds to pay for inpatient care.

Thank you for sharing this information, especially as someone with professional experience. I have seen this side of the system live and in person and tried everything in my power to help a loved one. I hit one road block after another over many months. It's easy for others to think "nobody did anything to help", but sometimes that is the farthest thing from the truth.

 

[Sjm_qc]

People coming and going from the cabin are signs he was dealing drugs. He never held a steady job because he was making money dealing drugs. It’s just another very strange case.

We don’t know when people were “coming and going” from the property.

There is also nothing - so far - to indicate he was selling drugs.

I appreciate that speculation is perfectly acceptable here & I do it all the time, but I personally try to avoid stating things as fact, when I can’t prove said “fact”.

 

[StarEyes]

Kidnapped teenager Jayme Closs, whose parents were murdered during her abduction, will not have to testify in court, prosecutors said today.

Kidnapped teenager Jayme Closs will not have to give evidence in court against her abductor | Daily Mail Online

I’m really glad about this.

Thank the Lord! That’s been something I’ve been stressed out about. I hope she never has to see JPs hateful face again.

 

[Rosiebones]

I disagree. While I agree the tendency is not to evaluate behaviors I think that parents and educators present in childrens lives should be better educated on what to look for.

I have a personal example. Both of my kids went to the same school district with all the same administrations.

One of my children was extremely self isolating. I was aware of it, monitoring it and evaluating it. We were working with personal family therapists. This child had tendencies that were honestly, extremely concerning and put them at a risk of self harm or possibly harm to someone else. However, they were quiet and studious. No one at school never approached me or mentioned how they were isolating themselves. There were some pretty concerning and extreme actions of this child in school to avoid peers that were evidence that they were troubled. NEVER a word from the school. Side note: This child is a well adjusted adult now but certainly only because of my background and observations to intervene early.

Child number two is outgoing, loud and did dumb things. On two occasions, goofy pranks landed them in the principals office. That was the extent of the trouble this child got into. Mostly, this child was just silly and had a bad sense of judging consequences as a teenager. Forever after those incidents, the school contacted me if this child sneezed in the wrong direction. They were not at all a risk to anything and their behavior was very typical for their age and gender.

Bottom line? Two kids. One who was at one time a completely average teenagerand another who was actually in serious mental trouble and educators focused on the one that got in their way or caused them grief and not on the one that actually needed serious assistance.

That shouldn't happen.

I do not disagree with you at all, I am just trying to say that parents are in the best position to note all the seemingly disconnected characteristics in a child over a time span and get them help ( if it is available and if they can afford it and most importantly if they choose to take it seriously) A quiet second grader may not be seen the same as a withdrawn 8th grader. Different teachers, different circumstances.

 

[BradB]

I just don’t believe you can predict future behavior. Some sports gamblers claim to be the best but you can’t predict outcomes of games. There’s a human element on display and it can’t be predicted. It just can’t. All the information, knowledge, stats, history can’t predict what’s going to happen. That’s the best analogy I can come up with.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Watch "Evil Lives Here" Investigation Discovery ... "there were signs"

Haa! That music alone gives me goosebumps.

 

[Myrtlesandroses]

What possibilities do you think?

Just insofar as the job goes— my HOPE is that he thought they were “playing house” and wanted a way to support that or even that he just wanted to keep up appearances. But my gut says the thrill may have started to wear off and he was still finding himself feeling quite inadequate and unsatisfied— I think he was beginning to think ahead a bit and I don’t think she was part of those plans. All totally MOO, of course. Who really knows what was next— but my heart sank when I read that article.

 

[Zephyranth]

In the 911 call, Jayme gives Jeanne the full name Jake Thomas Patterson - I wonder how she knew the middle name? Obviously he could have told her (but seriously, why would he even tell her his name at all?) I wonder if she saw some ID, perhaps (but that wouldn't include the middle name, probably).

 

[OhThatVictoria]

We're they equipped with dash cams?

Yes.

 

[bellyup]

False. There’s actually a saying: “The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.”

This is true but only within certain perimeters and time frames and without outside interventions or life events that change the course of action or behavior.

I just thought I would point that out because while it can be a guideline there are definitely deviations to it and it's not best for laypeople to use it as definitive. Ie; There are millions of reformed addicts and felons in this country. If they were all judged on past behaviors their futures would look pretty bleak.

 

[sans_soleil]

I cannot keep up with the thread, i visited WS few hours ago and the thread has since gained 10+ pages. Was anything important said here that is hard(er) to find in mainstream news outlets?

 

[cluciano63]

I have no doubt Jayme's family have the best intentions. They love her it's easy to see. I can't begin to think what would be best in a situation like this. The public has come to love her too and of course we enjoy seeing that she's okay.

I personally might step back now that she's been reunited and on a long journey back to her new normal. A few of the pictures seem sad and like she's tense and tired maybe? I'm just glad she's home.

Jmo she looks stressed to me...as would be normal.
She has a very tough time ahead...not least being famous now. Media will be after her for a while yet, then more so if a trial comes along, then again when another girl goes missing...for eternity imo. I know I could not do it. I would badly want to start over elsewhere. Jmo