Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #39

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frogwell said:
I think the sentence is ambiguous and in need of a comma between the words "house" and "where", which gives the sentence quite a different meaning. I would trust the words of the woman involved in the phonecall, not a 3rd party.

On another note, I wrote to the coroner's court asking if the public can attend the inquest and how to go about that, the following is a reply for those interested.

The Coroner has not yet decided whether the matter will be held in open court or not so I am unable to advise what arrangements are in place for the public.

The Coroner and the legal parties will discuss this at some time before the Inquest commences and the media will be advised. It will also be posted on the Coroners website.

Kind regards,

Ernie Harrington
Click to expand...
I was wondering about the inquest, thanks frogwell for enquiring and sharing.
 
Goosewhisperer said:
and yet, there was no involvement by the parents was there?
Click to expand...

That has always been questionable - after the fact.
It is all discussed on Allison's thread here on WS.

For example:
GERARD Baden-Clay’s father was about to leave his son’s Brookfield house with a vacuum cleaner when police stopped him on the morning Allison vanished.
“I took the vacuum cleaner and the hose pipe and put them in the boot of my car. I was about to leave and go and do these little jobs and the police constable asked me to stay where I was and not to take the car.’’
Category: | The Courier Mail
 
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kiwi50 said:
Does anyone know if a search dog would have been able to pick up Williams scent outside the property if he was being carried by an adult?
Just wondering how high a dog can pick up a scent.
If a dog could pick up a scent of someone being carried, it makes it even less likely that it was some random person on foot who got William, which brings it back to having to be a car.
If FG was expecting BS that morning, and his alibi doesnt check out, I just cant go past him as my #1 suspect.
I so hope Paul Savage saw him, but it probably only took seconds, so the odds arent great.
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Hi Kiwi, I understood your question re 'wondering how high a dog can pick up a scent?'
That's intrigued me also, in view of the report that William's scent was only found inside the parameters of FG property.

But then I became confused by your statements re 'on foot' Vs having a vehicle, and your subsequent conclusions.

IMO ...the person who grabbed William would have been on foot At That Stage - no doubt lurking over the boundary and awaiting an opportunity.

I'm also equally convinced that a Vehicle was used in the escape.

In acknowledging that the where & when of that occurrence is unknown to me, it's my opinion that the Investigations Team have much greater intel, and I place my trust in them, and in the findings of the inquest.
 
I wonder, if it's possible, that a man/woman could carry a boy away physically and not leave a scent of him - beyond the yard? As in - say carrying him over the shoulder? Maybe? I think abduction via vehicle, would be less aromatic (couldn't think of a better word), but my gut instinct says vehicle probably, or a combo of the two...IDK, MOO. Interesting that a neighbour "walks" up the hill nearly everyday. William would have to be carried high, which isn't impossible, but I wonder how high off the ground one needs to be for a dog to detect/or not, a scent? Maybe poor little William experienced both - carriage high, & then a close by vehicle?
 
Warshawski said:
Hi Kiwi, I understood your question re 'wondering how high a dog can pick up a scent?'
That's intrigued me also, in view of the report that William's scent was only found inside the parameters of FG property.

But then I became confused by your statements re 'on foot' Vs having a vehicle, and your subsequent conclusions.

IMO ...the person who grabbed William would have been on foot At That Stage - no doubt lurking over the boundary and awaiting an opportunity.

I'm also eqrdually convinced that a Vehicle was used in the escape.

In acknowledging that the where & when of that occurrence is unknown to me, it's my opinion that the Investigations Team have much greater intel, and I place my trust in them, and in the findings of the inquest.
Click to expand...

Oh sorry i am behind in reading posts - obviously! But i just came here with the same question... weird
 
It's really bugging me - & probably every one of you - that there is no sign of little William (alive or otherwise). If anyone gets the chance to go to middle bro in the future can you check the bird-trail walk... it has a few secondary trails. It is a central locale re abduction stats for (um) disposal within Wiliam's radius. Sorry to suggest. I'm not suggesting a pick & shovel walk - just a casual peruse. I went to Middle brother abut 18 months ago but I didn't know about the Bird Trail walk then. The police were checking middle bro a lot I know - but it's HUGE. Who knows if they went there, or if they did, whether they checked the little off tracks & such... Statistically it could be the area - so it's worth a look for little William's sake ( if you are passing by Kew or Kendall). Takes all of 15 min from FGM street...I will try myself but it's like a 6 hour drive from here, & with school it gets complicated :(
 
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iailwa said:
It's really bugging me - & probably every one of you - that there is no sign of little William (alive or otherwise). If anyone gets the chance to go to middle bro in the future can you check the bird-trail walk... it has a few secondary trails. It is a central locale re abduction stats for (um) disposal within Wiliam's radius. Sorry to suggest. I'm not suggesting a pick & shovel walk - just a casual peruse. I went to Middle brother abut 18 months ago but I didn't know about the Bird Trail walk then. The police were checking middle bro a lot I know - but it's HUGE. Who knows if they went there, or if they did, whether they checked the little off tracks & such... Statistically it could be the area - so it's worth a look for little William's sake ( if you are passing by Kew or Kendall). Takes all of 15 min from FGM street...I will try myself but it's like a 6 hour drive from here, & with school it gets complicated :(
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BBM. Iailwa, what do you mean by the two bolded, please? I'm not taking your point about 'statistically'.
 
Yes re the scent that dogs can pickup, what I meant was if an adult was carrying William some distance by foot, as opposed to a car parked right by the driveway, would the dog still be able to pick up Williams scent or only the scent of the person carrying him.
I know we discussed the dogs years ago, but not sure if this specific question was discussed.
 
@FromGermany and @iailwa (sorry, I couldn't get a multi-quote to work):

Re the human remains found near Yarratt Road, Upper Lansdowne:
Body of Tyron Beauchamp 'set alight' in bushland near Taree: police,
Sydney Morning Herald, 04 Jan 2019

The 41-year-old man moved from Queensland to the Taree area in 2018. According to Google Maps, the place where his body was found is a drive of about 60 kilometres or 30 miles from Benaroon Drive. I haven't seen anything reported to suggest the case is related to William's disappearance - but you never know.
 
kiwi50 said:
Yes re the scent that dogs can pickup, what I meant was if an adult was carrying William some distance by foot, as opposed to a car parked right by the driveway, would the dog still be able to pick up Williams scent or only the scent of the person carrying him.
I know we discussed the dogs years ago, but not sure if this specific question was discussed.
Click to expand...

There are a lot of issues with a dog tracking a person who someone else is carrying. I have read before that the person carried will drop their own scent, and the person carrying will leave a stronger scent.
And there are also a lot of issues with the 'scent article' that provides the dog with the scent to begin with.

If someone else has handled the article (presumably in William's case, mum/dad/sister/grandma may have handled the article) then the dog can become confused between the different scents.
Same if someone else is carrying the person being tracked. The dog can become confused between the co-mingled scents.

It takes very little contamination from other humans to corrupt the quality of a scent article. Couple the contamination problem with that of the contaminator being the freshest trail out and you have a basis for a scent article failure; in other words, the dog may simply follow the freshest trail. The problem with most scent-article training is that many handlers and trainers do not take into consideration how easily the scent article can be contaminated.

Scent-article and scent-discrimination training are the most important parts of the trailing continuum, yet most often they receive the least attention. The reason for that is the mistaken belief that if you simply show a dog a scent article with someone's odor on it, he will know what to do with it. In most cases, the article is meaningless when there is a fresh trail out for someone else.
The natural canid response appears to be to always follow the freshest trail out or that which is strongest.

Good scent discrimination training takes special steps to ensure that the dog can follow one door among many, based on scent presentation from the handler. That does not happen easily or quickly. Also, some dogs cannot be trained to "out" of the fresh or hot trail syndrome; they are so oriented toward instant gratification that specific scent selection and following are literally impossible for them.

Lots more in this article .... Trailing versus tracking: The keys to success
 
iailwa said:
It's really bugging me - & probably every one of you - that there is no sign of little William (alive or otherwise). If anyone gets the chance to go to middle bro in the future can you check the bird-trail walk... it has a few secondary trails. It is a central locale re abduction stats for (um) disposal within Wiliam's radius. Sorry to suggest. I'm not suggesting a pick & shovel walk - just a casual peruse. I went to Middle brother abut 18 months ago but I didn't know about the Bird Trail walk then. The police were checking middle bro a lot I know - but it's HUGE. Who knows if they went there, or if they did, whether they checked the little off tracks & such... Statistically it could be the area - so it's worth a look for little William's sake ( if you are passing by Kew or Kendall). Takes all of 15 min from FGM street...I will try myself but it's like a 6 hour drive from here, & with school it gets complicated :(
Click to expand...
You just reminded me of a couple of things about my visit to middle brother. One was the use of hot pink paint to mark forestry stuff, same colour as was used on the stump message in middle brother that was discovered about 2 years ago. That paint is used in the national park. The other point was I went to bird tree but I felt creeped out there and wouldn't get out of the car. I wouldn't go without at least one other adult as there was no one around
 
frogwell said:
You just reminded me of a couple of things about my visit to middle brother. One was the use of hot pink paint to mark forestry stuff, same colour as was used on the stump message in middle brother that was discovered about 2 years ago. That paint is used in the national park. The other point was I went to bird tree but I felt creeped out there and wouldn't get out of the car. I wouldn't go without at least one other adult as there was no one around
Click to expand...

I was just reading about this again, earlier today ... the article said that the police had identified the geocacher (who left the cylinder at that same tree) and had identified the geocacher who painted the message. I believe that, from another article about it, that they may have been two different people - because the person who left the cylinder said they didn't do the painting of the words "Jesus Saves William Tyrrell".

“Following inquiries, police have determined the items and painting were a result of ‘geocaching’, an outdoor activity in which participants use GPS coordinates to hide and seek items,” the statement said.
“Given the circumstances of William’s disappearance, police are disappointed that it has been included in a recreational game.
Mama mia - February 8, 2016
 
Yes, my understanding is that no geocacher is putting their hand up for the painting, the stump has been a geocahe site for years, but the police have been quoted as saying the message was a part of a geocache game.
 
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