Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #39

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'Jesus Saves William Tyrrell' message was painted on tree AFTER geocache gamer left find | Daily Mail Online

Daily Mail Australia exclusively revealed on Monday that NSW builder Bob Carnes had found the mysterious message 'Jesus Saves William Tyrrell' painted in red on the tree trunk in Middle Brother forest, just 10km from where William Tyrrell went missing, while driving through the forest last weekend.

<mod comment - pic from linked article >
310B11F300000578-3439930-image-a-34_1455075850798.jpg


However, the geocache gamer who left the objects in the tree informed Mr Carnes through friends that the tree was unpainted when he deposited the bottle in the trunk.

He described 'the person that put [the message] on there' as 'very strange' and the fact that police still did not know who had written the message.

So somewhere between the 1st and 8th of February 2016.
 
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iailwa said:
Yes, but BBM below

"Locals in the area told The Daily Telegraph they saw heavily armed officers and PolAir helicopters hovering above the area.

Police said the aircraft was in the region coincidentally and was en route to Sydney.

--me-- why was there helicopters (plural) & heavily armed officers?

“Following inquiries, police have determined the items and painting were a result of ‘geocaching’, an outdoor activity in which participants use GPS coordinates to hide and seek items,” the statement reads.

“Given the circumstances of William’s disappearance, police are disappointed that it has been included in a recreational game.

me - Why the police would think someone would include this in a geo-chache game? It's quite bizarre to spray paint such a message... it's a perfect excuse, by police, to allow a suspect to think he'd got away with leaving such a message - if that's the case? of course IDK but it's something police may try to keep close to their chest, by pretending to suggest they have brushed it off...

doesn't make sense to me MOO
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Re the helicopters and heavily armed officers:
Until October 2015 the Stoccos were chased and searched for. Idk, when the painted stump was first discovered?
 
From the Geocaching NSW press release:

‘The last geocacher to find the container did so on 13/1/2016 and they have relayed information that the spray paint was not there at the time [...]’
Press Release: William Tyrrell Tree Stump Articles in Relation to Geocaching - Geocaching NSW Incorporated - Promoting Geocaching in New South Wales

So the graffiti was added some time after 13/1/2016 when the geocacher said it wasn’t there and before the weekend of the 6-7/2/2016 when it was discovered by Mr Carnes:

‘Daily Mail Australia exclusively revealed on Monday [8/2/2016] that NSW builder Bob Carnes had found the mysterious message 'Jesus Saves William Tyrrell' painted in red on the tree trunk in Middle Brother forest, just 10km from where William Tyrrell went missing, while driving through the forest last weekend [6-7/2/2016].’
'Jesus Saves William Tyrrell' message was painted on tree AFTER geocache gamer left find | Daily Mail Online
(published 10 February 2016)

Also reported in the DM article:

‘NSW Police told Daily Mail Australia that the painted message and the objects may be a type of shrine to the missing toddler rather than a clue left by William's abductors.’
 
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Bohemian said:
<rsbm>

Also reported in the DM article:

‘NSW Police told Daily Mail Australia that the painted message and the objects may be a type of shrine to the missing toddler rather than a clue left by William's abductors.’
Click to expand...

Well, some of us feel pretty sure that William is out there in the forests somewhere. So if it was done as a shrine, it may be the only marker that the little guy has in that region ... unless/until he is one day found.
 
iailwa said:
Yes, but BBM below

"Locals in the area told The Daily Telegraph they saw heavily armed officers and PolAir helicopters hovering above the area.

Police said the aircraft was in the region coincidentally and was en route to Sydney.

--me-- why was there helicopters (plural) & heavily armed officers?

“Following inquiries, police have determined the items and painting were a result of ‘geocaching’, an outdoor activity in which participants use GPS coordinates to hide and seek items,” the statement reads.

“Given the circumstances of William’s disappearance, police are disappointed that it has been included in a recreational game.

me - Why the police would think someone would include this in a geo-chache game? It's quite bizarre to spray paint such a message... it's a perfect excuse, by police, to allow a suspect to think he'd got away with leaving such a message - if that's the case? of course IDK but it's something police may try to keep close to their chest, by pretending to suggest they have brushed it off...

doesn't make sense to me MOO
Click to expand...

I’m sceptical re. some of the reported details. It would be rare for more than one helicopter to be flying in the same area IMO And given that this is a very high profile case I would expect to see at least one photo if the police activity was as dramatic as described in the DT article, but there was nothing. I tend to think the helicopter was in the area only briefly, flying over the area as part of the journey, returning from a job or training exercise.

Dawn drug raids involving a helicopter were carried out on the Central Coast a few days later - perhaps they were preparing for that.
 
Lemony said:
I’m sceptical re. some of the reported details. It would be rare for more than one helicopter to be flying in the same area IMO And given that this is a very high profile case I would expect to see at least one photo if the police activity was as dramatic as described in the DT article, but there was nothing. I tend to think the helicopter was in the area only briefly, flying over the area as part of the journey, returning from a job or training exercise.

Dawn drug raids involving a helicopter were carried out on the Central Coast a few days later - perhaps they were preparing for that.
Click to expand...
We were speculating on here about WT maybe being in Kendall cemetery for various reasons, a number of years ago, then locals from the area, posted on here that a police helicopter had been hovering over the cemetery within the week we were discussing the possibilities. It wasn't reported in the MSm.
 
SouthAussie said:
I don't know why there is always so much suspicion around what the police say and do.
If they say a geocacher did this, it is likely because a geocacher told them they did it. imo
The police do not have to name the culprit. It wasn't a criminal offense, and even if it was, they still do not have to name the culprit.

And if you were the geocacher who did it, would you be telling social media that you did it? And have half of the social media world come down on you?


Sometimes I think we need to put things in perspective. Leisl Smith went missing in country NSW in August 2012. On October 18, 2018, a man was charged with her murder - James Church, who we long suspected police had on their radar for this crime. Leisl still hasn't been found .. after extensive searches, lots of publicity, CCTV proof of her some of her movements, her family not giving up.

The police did not reveal everything they were doing over the 6+ years it took them to lay charges against James Church. Or everything that anyone else did. Nor were the police not on the right track.
Click to expand...
But it’s not like it’s an evil message or anything. The ‘saves’ is bit is odd.
 
Lemony said:
I’m sceptical re. some of the reported details. It would be rare for more than one helicopter to be flying in the same area IMO And given that this is a very high profile case I would expect to see at least one photo if the police activity was as dramatic as described in the DT article, but there was nothing. I tend to think the helicopter was in the area only briefly, flying over the area as part of the journey, returning from a job or training exercise.

Dawn drug raids involving a helicopter were carried out on the Central Coast a few days later - perhaps they were preparing for that.
Click to expand...

Yes the article is a bit flamboyant (heavily armed police??). Although - in those sexy blue outfits one can get distracted & simply not remember what they were armed with lol ;) It was very quiet too, the whole incident. Sydney police choppers regularly fly up this way (past william’ then) as well. A lot of Mary j up here.
 
For the sake of accuracy, the paint used on the tree stump was reported as being red in the original DM article (published 8/2/2016):

353EB1C4-C4DE-4284-B496-1379C8EC856A.jpeg​
‘Painted on the tree trunk in red is the message: 'Jesus Saves William Tyrrell' [...]’
NSW police investigate William Tyrrell shrine found 12km away from where he was last seen | Daily Mail Online

Whether the colour of the paint makes a difference as to the industries it’s used in, I’m not sure. I have read that it is used by forestry workers to mark trees to either be harvested or left, or in linemarking for landscaping and construction; for example.

In any case, I suspect samples of the paint would have been taken for analysis by Forensic Services. They would probably have been able to trace the make and even batch number of the paint used:

Paint as a Evidence in a Forensic Investigation | Actforlibraries.org
 
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@iailwa I think you posted earlier about criminals’ ‘awareness spaces’.

Anyway, I was reading about Jessica Ridgeway, a 10-year-old girl who was abducted and murdered in the US, and the subject was raised in the article, ie:

‘In the vast majority of child abduction murders, as well as other crimes, researchers have found that the perpetrator lives within his awareness space, commits his crimes close to home and within that awareness space, and disposes of his victims and other evidence at the outer edges of the awareness space, generally along the space’s transportation corridors.

This is because when it comes to operating in our comfort zones, criminals, even sociopaths who murder children, have been found to be just like the rest of us. We tend to operate within the areas that we know best.’
https://www.boulderweekly.com/news/jessica-ridgeway-killerrsquos-lsquoawareness-spacersquo-may-lead-to-clues/

I wonder if Batar Creek Road was seen as a ‘transportation corridor’ for William’s abductor by SFR?
 
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Bohemian said:
@iailwa I think you posted earlier about criminals’ ‘awareness spaces’.

Anyway, I was reading about Jessica Ridgeway, a 10-year-old girl who was abducted and murdered in the US, and the subject was raised in the article, ie:

‘In the vast majority of child abduction murders, as well as other crimes, researchers have found that the perpetrator lives within his awareness space, commits his crimes close to home and within that awareness space, and disposes of his victims and other evidence at the outer edges of the awareness space, generally along the space’s transportation corridors.

This is because when it comes to operating in our comfort zones, criminals, even sociopaths who murder children, have been found to be just like the rest of us. We tend to operate within the areas that we know best.’
https://www.boulderweekly.com/news/jessica-ridgeway-killerrsquos-lsquoawareness-spacersquo-may-lead-to-clues/

I wonder if Batar Creek Road was seen as a ‘transportation corridor’ for William’s abductor by SFR?
Click to expand...

Yes that's the kinda of thing I'm talking about BO - altho not as eloquent as u put it ;) There's been a fair amount of activity wrt to police & Batar Creek rd, even in the beginning, and of course the recent search near stoney creek Rd & cedar loggers lane (? spelling from memory MOO).

BTW nice way of translating stats into a more 'human comfort' thanks, & yes I totally agree - it seems like a good corridor. I for one have never heard much about a north or northwest avenue - leaving Kendall - IIRC. Although, it doesn't mean the police haven't looked that way. But it seems their interest lies in Batar Creek proper & Batar Creek Rd lately.

If someone did escape through the "dead end" at Benaroon, then they can end up at Batar creek rd, but also - they could head north. Also if they headed out the other way. But why are/were the cops so interested in the little patch down on Batar creek rd.... did someone of interest stop there briefly? The police didn't cover a large area IIRC, just a little into the bushland - as if someone didn't stay long enough to wander far IMO...
 
I think there is a possibility that William was initially dumped around the Batar Creek road area & his remains later moved back somewhere around the search zone to make it look like he had actually wandered off into the bush - probably much later on to allow for exposure to destroy evidence of cause of death etc & when the area was not crawling with people looking for William anymore.
 
Bohemian said:
How did you narrow the reporting of the tree stump graffiti down to 7/2/2016, Blue? Was the date it was found mentioned in MSM somewhere and I missed it?
Click to expand...

Sorry I should have provided the link.

“About 6.30pm yesterday (Sunday 7 February 2016), a member of the public contacted police after a reference to William Tyrrell was found painted on a tree in a state forest near Stewart’s River, about 10km south of Kendall,” NSW Police said via a statement.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
 
Blues Clues said:
Sorry I should have provided the link.

“About 6.30pm yesterday (Sunday 7 February 2016), a member of the public contacted police after a reference to William Tyrrell was found painted on a tree in a state forest near Stewart’s River, about 10km south of Kendall,” NSW Police said via a statement.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
Click to expand...
Thanks Blue. So he must’ve reported it as soon as he found it. Good on him.
 
iailwa said:
Yes that's the kinda of thing I'm talking about BO - altho not as eloquent as u put it ;) There's been a fair amount of activity wrt to police & Batar Creek rd, even in the beginning, and of course the recent search near stoney creek Rd & cedar loggers lane (? spelling from memory MOO).

BTW nice way of translating stats into a more 'human comfort' thanks, & yes I totally agree - it seems like a good corridor. I for one have never heard much about a north or northwest avenue - leaving Kendall - IIRC. Although, it doesn't mean the police haven't looked that way. But it seems their interest lies in Batar Creek proper & Batar Creek Rd lately.

If someone did escape through the "dead end" at Benaroon, then they can end up at Batar creek rd, but also - they could head north. Also if they headed out the other way. But why are/were the cops so interested in the little patch down on Batar creek rd.... did someone of interest stop there briefly? The police didn't cover a large area IIRC, just a little into the bushland - as if someone didn't stay long enough to wander far IMO...
Click to expand...
In Kendall, there is a sign pointing towards Batar Creek road, with "riding for the disabled" and "Bird Tree" printed. From Batar creek road, you can access the Bird Tree picnic area in the national park. There is also access to Bird Tree from the pacific high way, maybe 10km south of the Kew turn off. There is a very accessible walking track from really close to the house where William disappeared, straight up to the cemetery. From the car park, you could be a few blocks from the road to Comboyne, then onto B56- straight up to Walcha- then onto Bucketts way, New England Highway.
 
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