CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #38 *ARREST*

[dizzychick]

What is his motive? Well it's been so long since I worked a custody case I cannot remember the minimum ( use to be 20 % based on a minimum wage salary) but let's assume Colorado sets the minimum at 500 a month, that would be around 100K for the next 17 years he would be on the hook to pay and if he starts making more money the support goes up. I suggest this was his sole reason for the murder. This is the only reason I can come up with for a motive that makes sense to me. Some people are so cheap, you know like the ones that never move from home and rent their own space just because, well, you have grown up and want to be an adult, just saying...

 

[TheVic]

I can't stop thinking about Westcliffe and wondering what PF was doing there. I noticed it is not far from Crestone where there has been a search of the mines looking for Kristal Resinger: Haunting image over mine shaft appears during hunt for missing mom
Custer County has many mines too, several near Westcliffe: Custer County Colorado Mines

Although, I don't think PF would wait until Dec 2 to get rid of KB's body. Perhaps he was getting rid of the gun or other evidence in a mine in Westcliffe?

Because this is PF we are talking about, if he tells someone he is in Westcliffe, I would automatically assume that he is lying and is not in Westcliffe. That is just my opinion based on his truthfulness to date.

 

[TheVic]

I'm taking anything and everything that comes out of his mouth as subterfuge, including what he told Cline and his friends, that are now parroting it to the media.

Definitely.

 

[SandyQLS]

deleted

 

[SandyQLS]

I disagree with both your characterization of my post, and also your interpretation.

According to PF's attorney, the Berreth's wrongful death suit should be dismissed because KB has a child, and therefore the Berreth's, as parents, do not have legal standing to file suit.

Berreth's obviously disagree, have not dropped their wrongful death suit, and I agree with them.

C.R.S. § 13-21-201 governs who may bring a wrongful death action.

While the statute provides that a "designated beneficiary" of the decedent may also have standing to bring a wrongful death action, in lieu of, or in addition to other parties with standing enumeration by the statute..........

NOWHERE does the Colorado wrongful death statute define "designated beneficiary"
as that defined by or pursuant to the "2009 COLORADO BENEFICIARY AGREEMENT ACT."

The legal term/concept designated beneficiary exists outside of the State of Colorado.

The subject here is Berreth's Colorado wrongful death lawsuit, and nothing to do with the DBA drafted for same sex partners.

MOO

I disagree.

2016 Colorado Revised Statutes :: Title 13 - :: Courts and Court Procedure :: Damages and Limitations on Actions :: Article 21 - Damages :: Part 2 - :: Damages for Death by Negligence :: § 13-21-201. Damages for death

(wrongful death)

C.R.S. § 13-21-201

"...(IV) If there is no spouse, by the heir or heirs of the deceased or the designated beneficiary, if there is one designated pursuant to article 22 of title 15, C.R.S., with the right to bring an action pursuant to this section, and if there is no designated beneficiary, by the heir or heirs of the deceased; ..."

(The term "designated beneficiary" occurs 6 times in the statute, 4 times referencing C.R.S. § 15-22, one example provided.)

Colorado Revised Statutes Title 15. Probate, Trusts, and Fiduciaries § 15-22-101 | FindLaw
C.R.S. § 15-22-101
"...This article shall be known and may be cited as the “Colorado Designated Beneficiary Agreement Act”. ..."

Colorado Revised Statutes Title 15. Probate, Trusts, and Fiduciaries § 15-22-105 | FindLaw
C.R.S. § 15-22-105
"...(1) A person named as a designated beneficiary in a designated beneficiary agreement shall be entitled to exercise the rights and protections specified in the agreement by virtue of having been so named. ...

(k) The right to have standing to sue for wrongful death on behalf of the other designated beneficiary;  and..."

Colorado Revised Statutes Title 15. Probate, Trusts, and Fiduciaries § 15-22-106 | FindLaw
C.R.S. § 15-22-106

"...(1) The following statutory form shall be the standard form for a designated beneficiary agreement:
...
We, _______________, (insert full name and address) referred to as party A, and _______________, (insert full name and address) referred to as party B, hereby designate each other as the other's designated beneficiary with the following rights and protections, granted or withheld as indicated by our initials: ..."

Colorado Revised Statutes Title 15. Probate, Trusts, and Fiduciaries § 15-22-104 | FindLaw
C.R.S. § 15-22-104
"(1) A designated beneficiary agreement shall be legally recognized if:

(a) The parties to the designated beneficiary agreement satisfy all of the following criteria:

(I) Both are at least eighteen years of age;

(II) Both are competent to enter into a contract;

(III) Neither party is married to another person;

(III.5) Neither party is a party to a civil union;

(IV) Neither party is a party to another designated beneficiary agreement;  and

(V) Both parties enter into the designated beneficiary agreement without force, fraud, or duress;  and ..."

***
IMO there is no designated beneficiary as used in CO statutes re: KB. Neither CB nor DB qualify as DB's since they are married to each other.

*
Are you reading C.R.S. § 15-10-22 ? It lists definitions including 22) "governing instruments" and discussion of wills, trusts, annuities, etc. That is not the correct reference in the wrongful death statute.

*
It really is a moot point. CB and DB have stated their standing as "parents" and nothing else.

 

[margarita25]

I can't stop thinking about Westcliffe and wondering what PF was doing there. I noticed it is not far from Crestone where there has been a search of the mines looking for Kristal Resinger: Haunting image over mine shaft appears during hunt for missing mom
Custer County has many mines too, several near Westcliffe: Custer County Colorado Mines

Although, I don't think PF would wait until Dec 2 to get rid of KB's body. Perhaps he was getting rid of the gun or other evidence in a mine in Westcliffe?

(WS link for reference:

CO - CO - Kristal Reisinger, 29, Crestone, 13 July 2016 )

 

[SandyQLS]

"Designated beneficiary" as provided for under the Colorado Statute of who can bring a wrongful death lawsuit should not be confused with the 2009 Designated Beneficiary Agreement Act referenced.

Principal legal instruments (Will, Trust, LLC, Power of Attorney, etc,) have long existed before any agreement to protect same sex marriages, and can also supersede the 2009, limited, "designated beneficiary agreement."

The statute is clear. I am not confused - that is exactly what designated beneficiary means in the wrongful death statute, a designated beneficiary under the 2009 Act. The term designated beneficiary in this purpose has nothing to do with wills, trusts, etc., and there is nothing to supersede because there is no DBA at least as far as CB and DB.

 

[Elley Mae]

What is his motive? Well it's been so long since I worked a custody case I cannot remember the minimum ( use to be 20 % based on a minimum wage salary) but let's assume Colorado sets the minimum at 500 a month, that would be around 100K for the next 17 years he would be on the hook to pay and if he starts making more money the support goes up. I suggest this was his sole reason for the murder. This is the only reason I can come up with for a motive that makes sense to me. Some people are so cheap, you know like the ones that never move from home and rent their own space just because, well, you have grown up and want to be an adult, just saying...

Exacty, for some money is enough of a reason.

 

[justaparent]

As far as using she "learned" rather than "he told me" in her statement, I had the impression that KK's statement had been crafted to be deliberately vague for legal reasons. MOO and I could be off, of course!

Absolutely. Many aspects of her testimony were crafted in that way IMO. At some point, maybe during the trial, maybe long after the trial, I believe we will find out much more about KK and her involvement.

 

[NoeticSoul]

Good morning. Happy Sunday!

So, all that was on the local news about the dump search.. was news that there 'wasn't any new news'. That sucked, and imo they shouldn't have had a commercial teaser for it before the 6 pm news yesterday :|

On a happier note, only 2 more days before we find out more in court! Looking forward to that, and I hope to see KK make an appearance again. I thought I read somewhere that she would also be there. I have my popcorn ready.

 

[CarolinePolly]

blessed with grandmother brain.
Thank y’all for post and comments and knowledge BUT mostly the kindness toward all. I am soo behind gotta catch-up.
};o CarolinePolly

 

[The Farm]

Good Sunday Morning all,

Reading back and waiting on Tuesday here but have a question. I am seeing mention of Westcliffe and am wondering when this came into the picture as I do not remember it ever being mentioned previously??

 

[NoeticSoul]

Good Sunday Morning all,

Reading back and waiting on Tuesday here but have a question. I am seeing mention of Westcliffe and am wondering when this came into the picture as I do not remember it ever being mentioned previously??

According to CB (both of them apparently), PF told her that he was in Westcliff at some point during all this, while Kelsey was missing. I'll look for the link or paragraph.

eta "After telling Clinton Berreth, Plaintiffs' son and Kelsey's brother, and Darrell ... Frazee said he was in Westcliffe but promised that he would do."

http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/amended+complaint3.pdf

sorry don't have time currently to read it all!

 

[Dave F.]

Good Sunday Morning all,

Reading back and waiting on Tuesday here but have a question. I am seeing mention of Westcliffe and am wondering when this came into the picture as I do not remember it ever being mentioned previously??

In their Amended Filing of the civil case against PF, the B's alleged that on December 2, 2018 CB made a phone call to PF asking him to open KB's phone records (billing) as KB was apparently a second cell phone on his master account. He told her he was in Westcliffe, but would be home that night and would try to do that. On December 3rd, CB called him to follow up and he told her he was unable to answer the questions required to use the feature that asks preregistered test questions when the sign-on comes from a phone or IP location different from KB's registered cell phone. (This is a standard Verizon feature). The B's filing alleges that PF was refusing to help find KB.
Westcliffe is a tiny remote town in southern Colorado, in the middle of a broad mountain valley known for cattle ranching. It is 91 miles by the shortest route from Florissant, or 118 miles if PF drove through Guffey, to check on his leased his cattle range. IMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Interesting idea. I'd bet on the gun before the body, and Westcliffe before Crestone because of those mountains in between. Google Maps

Is it too much to hope that we find out on Tuesday 1) if the gun is missing and if not, where it was found, and 2) if PF was really in Westcliffe on Dec. 2?

MOO

No way is it too much to hope for Pommy LOL. We've been patiently waiting <like a school of piranhas> for any information at all.

I would also add to the list of hopefuls, the particulars of KB's phone. Do they have it? Where was it? Was it destroyed, etc.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Oh, I agree. I don't think he went to Crestone. But I was thinking he might have taken the idea to hide something in a Westcliffe mine from seeing media coverage of the mine search for Kristal. If he knew the Crestone area mines were being searched he would not go there. Custer County is just one county over and plenty of options to hide something.

In addition to info about the gun, I hope we find out:

Where KB's cell phone was found (if it was actually found).
Where/When Baby K was actually taken from Kelsey on Nov 22.
What evidence LE found in KB townhouse that indicates she is no longer alive.
What PF was getting rid of at the waste management station with the two men who unloaded for him.
What was found at SF's ranch (and why the 5 LE vehicles paid PF a brief visit.
How did KK travel to Colorado and what days.
What time were the text messages sent on Nov 25th.
Content and wording of the text messages.
Do they know where KB's body is likely located? (Landfill search?)
Was there any evidence found in her vehicles of his truck showing he used them to transport the body?

If we find out all that I think we may have info overload on Tuesday.

MOO.

HAHAHA Gardener, I only asked for one 'wish for answer', but I like your list a whole lot better!!!

Tuesday around here is going to be bananas I predict. And of course I am going to try to be right in the middle of it.

Justice For Kelsey!

 

[The Farm]

Thank you NoeticSoul & Dave F.

That must have flew right by me because I do not remember seeing that at all.
Westcliffe is pretty rural and the cattle connection makes it possible but let's not forget PF has lived in CO his whole life with many connections per rodeo, ranching, farrier work etc. In CO that is not considered a long ride and there would be plenty of areas to dump something on the way to never be found.
Thanks again!

 

[NoeticSoul]

In their Amended Filing of the civil case against PF, the B's alleged that on December 2, 2018 CB made a phone call to PF asking him to open KB's phone records (billing) as KB was apparently a second cell phone on his master account. He told her he was in Westcliffe, but would be home that night and would try to do that. On December 3rd, CB called him to follow up and he told her he was unable to answer the questions required to use the feature that asks preregistered test questions when the sign-on comes from a phone or IP location different from KB's registered cell phone. (This is a standard Verizon feature). The B's filing alleges that PF was refusing to help find KB.
Westcliffe is a tiny remote town in southern Colorado, in the middle of a broad mountain valley known for cattle ranching. It is 91 miles by the shortest route from Florissant, or 118 miles if PF drove through Guffey, to check on his leased his cattle range. IMO

Thanks, @Dave F. I couldn't remember what exactly it was exactly for, and have edited my post.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Thank you so much for the warm welcome! Yup, I think I am gonna be posting…

The big why in cases such as this…. It has so very much preoccupied me since the CW case. I just finished a very good book titled “The Anatomy of Evil” by Dr. Michael Stone. I highly recommend it. A couple things I highlighted that I thought you might find interesting:

On Personality:

• Personality all by itself, with no “help” from mental illness, drug abuse, head injury etc., can account for the tendency to commit crimes of exceeding violence.
  
• A useful equation in thinking about personality is that which we inherit accounts for about half of our personality; environment makes up the other half.
  
• No surprise, narcissism is common to almost all persons who commit serious crimes.
  
• The three personality disorders with a close relationship to crime are antisocial, psychopathic, and sadistic. Schizoid is also seen.
  
• If we wanted to narrow our focus to single out the personality configuration that is connected with particular closeness to our concept of evil, it would be at the place where psychopathy, sadistic personality, and schizoid/autistic-spectrum disorders all come together.

Some info that may be applicable to case:

• Describing category of “Killers (not totally psychopathic) of people “in the way”” – Not impulsive in nature. We are dealing instead with violent acts that were carried out in a cold and methodical way from the beginning – followed by equally methodical ways of trying to escape justice. Factor-I traits (glibness and/or superficial charm, grandiose sense of self-worth, pathological lying, conning or manipulativeness, lack of remorse or guilt, shallow affect, callousness and lack of empathy/compassion, and failure to accept responsibility for one’s actions) are evident, but usually less rage and intemperate behavior. Examples include Mins and Einhorn who killed because the women they had once loved rejected them. Neither saw any solution to his loss and wounded pride than to murder the women who had hurt them. That each of these men had driven the women away because of abusiveness was clear to everyone else; they remained steadfastly blind to the obvious and thus felt “justified” in exacting revenge. Now, I do think he can be described as methodical as he definetely put thought into it...
  
• Impulsive wife murders account for only 1 case in 9.
  
• Dr. Stone states “but of all the things I learned from looking at the histories of wife murderers, the most remarkable includes: the men (that preplanned the murder) hardly ever confessed, even when convicted… Confession was common in the impulsive husbands”.

A lot of you predict that PF will not admit to what he has done to Kelsey and I agree. I have a hard time seeing him as charming, but I am sure that he does have that capacity, otherwise a smart, good, and beautiful girl, such as Kelsey, would have never fallen for him. She deserved SO much better! It breaks my heart.

If not ok to post things like this, just delete and let me know. I need to read up on rules tonight.

Wanted to thank you for the awesome post and the reading recommendation! I’m always looking for another book to read to further my education into the minds of these types of criminals.

 

[Only4Justice]

Just a quick comment on Baby K. My father was killed in a car accident when I was 4. My young mother took me to the funeral, etc. where my mom has a complete breakdown. I am in my 50s now and have never been able to recall any of it. That’s a gift of our minds. She may never recall anything.