GUILTY CO - Shanann Watts (34), Celeste"Cece" (3) and Bella (4), Frederick, 13 Aug 2018 *CW LWOP* #70

[borndem]

Ha ha!!



Hmm. That's an interesting take. It could be very true.

Earlier I theorized a lot about possible, simmering rage and resentment that could've come from not having a fully formed identity, just going through the motions and living someone else's life, doing what was expected but not what he truly desired, which he could not know as he kind of didn't fully exist.

I mean you have to have an identity to really know what you want and to pick the life you want to live.

In no way do I think this cat was truly enraged or on some sort of rampage when he did this.

But I do think he dug deep down for some simmering resentment and deep anger and dissastifaction.

It was interesting when the investigators asked him if he was angry at Shanann and why. He said he was motivated by rage but he couldn't articulate why. He couldn't point to anything real that she actually did to him to upset him. I mean he also said that he killed his kids out of anger but could not explain it. Which maybe makes sense.

I think he may have felt some slight anger or really tried hard at least to drum some up. But he probably mostly felt adrenaline and excitement as he killed his wife as well. I believe him that he was shaking afterward. I don't think a pure and classic psychopath would have been.

But he calmed right back down like a snake on a rock after that and quietly and methodically loaded his car.

His anger at his parents - that's an interesting theory. Others have said the same thing. And it makes sense.

I feel he was likely annihilated by a narcissist. His description of his mother always asking him how he feels but he never expressed anything? That flat effect around one's parents is common for children of borderlines and narcissists because they can't make the wrong move and any expression of individual needs or feelings is met with annihilating rage or consumption. (Those I know who've been through this said they cannot let their parents in at all or ever tell them about their lives because the parents will use whatever they tell them).

He describes his mother as loving but she's shown herself to be anything but- ruining Shanann's bridal shower, not going to the wedding, bad mouthing her, risking her geandchildren's lives with nuts, saying savage things about her murdered daughter in law despite the utter agony it would cause Shanann's family. Making her victim statement all about showing how great her son and her family is and how she is a victim. Making it all about appearance and about her.

She's shown her character in so many ways.

So I think he's leaving a lot out. What he's described of his father and what we've heard from that man likewise shows a dysfunctional person of questionable character to me. He became a coke addict because his son got married and moved? Wth? And he continues to throw his murdered daughter in law under the bus refusing to accept reality?

What was it like being raised by them?

I recall this photo I saw of the family when Chris was little. It was in a YouTube movie about the crimes and flashed quickly on the screen. I rewinded and froze it.

Chris' sister appears much older than he. Chris was quite young. About 8-10. His father wasn't smiling much. Sort of stone faced. His mother and sister had almost identical expressions. Kind of smug, half smiles.

Then there was Chris. The little boy had a super wide and sweet smile. He was the nicest thing in the photo. The very picture of affability, innocence and niceness.

A very good boy.

I think like Scott Peterson he had to play a role in that family. He couldn't express emotion. He couldn't develop a personality.

And maybe indeed he had a simmering anger toward them as well.

It's all so horrible yet interesting to ponder.

Thanks, gitana1 -- Great post -- I couldn't express at all what you did above, so very measured, fair, factual and even -- and IMO, exactly right. I had those same feelings during the Brad Cooper trial (convicted of 1st degree murder of his sweet wife Nancy -- and then after appeal, was given a lesser sentence in exchange for no second trial and his allocution to admit to the murder. We the Jury! Deliberations).
Cooper's mother took the stand and was very cold and very stoic in what she said and in her affect. His parents rarely visited (from Canada, far away, yes), and they "took over" the girls when they did visit, and on other planned visits, they ignored Nancy, etc., etc., etc. Cooper himself seemed very cold and wooden and did not show any feelings at all other than contempt in the times he did speak -- specifically at the hearing for guardianship of the two girls when Nancy's family asked for full-time custody of the girls, and Nancy's family was awarded such. The feelings I had about Cooper and his family came back to me when I read about Chris's mother's visits, etc. And although Chris tried to seem bereft, sorrowful, etc., when talking with the press and with LE, his affect was just so very inappropriate, IMO.

What you posted opened up the clouds in my brain, and I realized that you had hit the nail on the head about Chris and his parents, especially about his mother.
We have seen this before -- borderline personality parents and how it affects their children when they become adults.

Thanks for naming and sharing it with us, gitana1!

 

[Gardener1850]

Although I believed that the girls were killed at CERVI, I couldn't come to a conclusion about that shadow stuff, but I feel the same way. If Rourke believes it, that's good enough for me.
MOO

I watched those shadow videos dozens of times and could never figure out what I was seeing with any certainty. But if Rourke sees it then I believe at least one of the girls was alive when CW loaded up his truck. I feel the same as you Pommy-- If Rourke says it that settles it for me. It's still utterly incomprehensible. But I'll go with what Rourke says.

MOO.

 

[MJPeony]

CW is worried about whether the pipes on the sprinklers have busted at his house....

Right.

 

[margarita25]

And it could well have been him saying that to her before he killed her. And the kids.

(Omg....
Shudder)

ETA: Are you saying what I think you’re saying? That heeee could have said that to heeeeeeer, that sheeeeee’s never going to see her kids again...? This is plausible, imo.

 

[nanwv]

The only two cognizant thoughts I have right now after this latest dose of watts are:

When NK pops her head out the hole she created for herself, the press will be waiting and pouncing.

The next interview I want to hear is from the band, Coder, Lee, and Baumhover.

 

[TTF14]

My other home on the Internet is a relationship forum, where there is much talk about extra-marital affairs. So much of what we've read that CW has said follows the Cheater's Script. And also the Other Woman script (i.e. being mad when he went home to his family). I believe Chris had an underlying mental or personality disorder and that coupled with the affair fog led him to commit this horrible act. I have ZERO doubt he's regretting ever taking up with NK and also murdering his whole family. I don't know that his personality disorder will ever let him fully admit that to anyone, including himself, but I do think he's absolutely wrecked inside and will be forever.

 

[margarita25]

I watched those shadow videos dozens of times and could never figure out what I was seeing with any certainty. But if Rourke sees it then I believe at least one of the girls was alive when CW loaded up his truck. I feel the same as you Pommy-- If Rourke says it that settles it for me. It's still utterly incomprehensible. But I'll go with what Rourke says.

MOO.

I couldn’t see squat (that doesn’t say much though)

Maybe someone can please circle the “shadow” or provide a still for an embedded image? Tia.

 

[Jessthinkin]

Exactly this! In his sick mind it looks better to say the girls were alive in the truck verses they were dead before shannan got home. Also if they were alive in the truck I would think he would talk about the video at the neighbors and him being afraid they saw the girls walking to the truck.

I think he was truthful in how he killed them and what Bella said; but it was in the kids bedroom not the truck. Which is why he stripped their beds.

I get that the investigators lead him to get him talking; but unfortunately it backfired many times by implanting a story for him.

I've been listening to the audio and reading WS off and on all day, and your post just triggered in me an awful thought (not that all of this isn't anything but awful).
His description of what Bella said, etc. at CERVI just doesn't ring true, as well as "taking" Cece first there, but what if Bella did walk in on him at the house, started screaming/crying/putting up a racket there, so he smothered/strangled (his word) her at the house, and then the shadow seen on the video (I notice Rourke only mentions "another shadow", not "other shadows") was Cece's? I feel terrible even writing this out, but it does make more sense to me logistically than what CW explained about what happened at CERVI19...

 

[skyedaze]

well I have not listened to any of this yet...but I don't believe there was any conversation with SW before the monster killed her. And he didn't wake up and kill her either. He was never asleep all night. To me, he laid in that bed til he got up enough anger to kill SW and he smashed her onto her stomach and choked her to death. She would not be able to fight back or make any noise and he would not have to see her face. Cuz let's be real...he's a wuss.
Most of us watched the video of him loading his truck...I didn't see any little girls..just looked like bags he put in the back. So I'm not entirely sure he drove them out to the field alive..but maybe. It's so gross to just have them in the backseat with their dead mom I guess it could be so. Like who would say that like no big deal other than a heartless ? Did any of you see any hint that the girls got in the back seat?
And I totally believe NK knew he was married and had pregnant wife/kids...she had already google SW a year beforehand..she was watching.
I think he likes talking and being interviewed...now he special. The most heinous family annihilator...lemme tell ya how I did it cuz now I'm a good guy and right with God. But he will leave some things out...because he wants to save bait for next time.
SMH

 

[borndem]

He took pleasure in throwing NK’s *advertiser censored* under the bus and ran her over a few times!! I knew she was a strange bird..

Agreed, and

Welcome to Websleuths,
Thunderdog !!​

 

[skyedaze]

I couldn’t see squat (that doesn’t say much though)

Maybe someone can please circle the “shadow” or provide a still for an embedded image? Tia.

Yeah I'll go with whatever Rourke says..but I still wanna see it..cuz I couldn't see squat either. Now I have to go look it up and re-watch.
And why would he take sheets off the girls' beds if he didn't kill them there? Driving them out there alive seems risky but what do I know, I'm not a murderer.

 

[ab01]

I couldn’t see squat (that doesn’t say much though)

Maybe someone can please circle the “shadow” or provide a still for an embedded image? Tia.

not an embedded image but I believe it does pause and have circles

 

[Jessthinkin]

Thanks, gitana1 -- Great post -- I couldn't express at all what you did above, so very measured, fair, factual and even -- and IMO, exactly right. I had those same feelings during the Brad Cooper trial (convicted of 1st degree murder of his sweet wife Nancy -- and then after appeal, was given a lesser sentence in exchange for no second trial and his allocution to admit to the murder. We the Jury! Deliberations).
Cooper's mother took the stand and was very cold and very stoic in what she said and in her affect. His parents rarely visited (from Canada, far away, yes), and they "took over" the girls when they did visit, and on other planned visits, they ignored Nancy, etc., etc., etc. Cooper himself seemed very cold and wooden and did not show any feelings at all other than contempt in the times he did speak -- specifically at the hearing for guardianship of the two girls when Nancy's family asked for full-time custody of the girls, and Nancy's family was awarded such. The feelings I had about Cooper and his family came back to me when I read about Chris's mother's visits, etc. And although Chris tried to seem bereft, sorrowful, etc., when talking with the press and with LE, his affect was just so very inappropriate, IMO.

What you posted opened up the clouds in my brain, and I realized that you had hit the nail on the head about Chris and his parents, especially about his mother.
We have seen this before -- borderline personality parents and how it affects their children when they become adults.

Thanks for naming and sharing it with us, gitana1!

Agreed, I was raised by a borderline parent (the gift that keeps on giving! ) and the way @gitana1 described it affecting children is spot on.

 

[violet101]

CW is worried about whether the pipes on the sprinklers have busted at his house....

Right.

Right?! It was like he thought he was talking with friends.

 

[Gardener1850]

I couldn’t see squat (that doesn’t say much though)

Maybe someone can please circle the “shadow” or provide a still for an embedded image? Tia.

There are videos on you tube with shadows circled and Grey Hughes did a video too. I still couldn't determine where the shadows were coming from because the light sources were weird IMHO. The only way to completely prove it would be to do a reenactment with the exact same camera angle and same lights on. But I'll go with what Rourke says. He would have had access to the original video. The video released on the internet was probably compressed and copied and then expanded and it probably came out more pixelated by that process. But the FBI or CBI might have been able to clean it up and see more. MOO.

 

[skyedaze]

41:00ish:

Coder:
“So then, Shanann, did she actually say you were never going to see the kids again?”

CW:
“She said it to me before.”
(Note: as in the past, not that night.)

EXACTLY!
No actual conversation. Just his thought in his mind while he was killing her...there was no trigger from her. She was asleep.

 

[zea mays]

I saw a YT video from a therapist who surmised that his week visit to NC was his test to see if he wanted his family, if he still had emotions for them. Another analogy is like he is a baby that lacks object permanence - out of sight, out of mind while they were gone and the visit did not rekindle any attachments to them. He was like this when with his parents when he moved to Colorado.

Yeah - we were talking about that in one of the earlier threads. There is also no talk of the future that they are missing out on. They're gone now, so their anticipated future is just gone, too.

30:ish he’s starting to talk about reading to the girls at night and sounds teary / his voice has changed, moo.

34:51 - Interesting how he says “I know it’s wrong to say you wish you’d never met somebody” (re: NK)— gee, did you think it was wrong to kill your entire family including a pregnant woman and two little girls?

“I know it’s wrong...”

Interesting use of words.

ETA: This demonstrates he has the awareness of considering what is right and what is wrong, imo.

I thought that was just so weird too. It's wrong to say that about NK but not wrong to kill your whole family. Just bizarre.

(Oh *advertiser censored*, Rourke sees the shadows?)

RIGHT??? I guess seeing the shadows now is not just confirmation bias. I wanna know WHEN Rourke saw the second shadow, though...

 

[Jessthinkin]

EXACTLY!
No actual conversation. Just his thought in his mind while he was killing her...there was no trigger from her. She was asleep.

Yup, the emotional conversation was between his hands and her throat...

 

[skyedaze]

Don't forget Coder. I've burst out laughing numerous times at his questions. I'm listening now and he said something like, "so Chris, we all know you care about others deeply, I can tell..." and Chris doesn't have a clue he's having smoke blown up his *advertiser censored**. Cracks me up.

Ok well maybe I'll wade throguh this *advertiser censored* to hear this kind of stuff, lol.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Well, I was mistaken in thinking CW wanted to come clean because he couldn't live with his disgusting self and that this interview would be his swan-song.

Far from it. He's morphed into yet another "self" called "Convict Chris Has Found Jesus".

In his twisted head he thinks that because he reads the bible all his sins have been forgiven -- he's a delusional moron.

I think he did this interview because he loves to talk about his favorite subject: HIMSELF, and how awesome "Nikki" is and how controlling Shanann was. Narcissistic sicko, still refusing to take responsibility for murdering his family.

When he was asked if the girls were still alive when he crammed them into the oil tanks there was a moment's pause before he mumbled "no". The way he spoke about the details of the toddlers' murder was coldly evil and matter of fact. He pretended to sob, but if any crocodile tears were squeezed out, it was only for himself being caught.

I don't know how CW can live with himself, but apparently he's forgiven himself (which was easy because he felt zero remorse), and believes he was goaded into his actions by a controlling wife.

He had the nerve to say that Shanann didn't fight back as he murdered her because she was praying to God to forgive him. HE IS NUTS! Who on earth would even think and say such a ridiculous thing?

Edited to add: CW learned to lie from an early age. On Page 27 of the CBI report he says:
"He has always had a “crazy imagination,” ever since he was a little kid. He convinced his teacher in grade school that he went to Japan or China over the summer, which was not true. He wrote a whole story about it and his teacher believed him."

SMH.

Well said, I'm not falling for it either, I'm just glad he's publicly removed ALL doubt about who killed Bella and CeCe, not that most people ever doubted it! He certainly has extreme narcissism, along with whatever else he's got because he can be manipulated with flattery and attention unlike a true psychopath, who'll only reveal details if it helps their situation (prison move or conditions) or they take sadistic pleasure in divulging the gory details! IMO, he will enjoy prison, narcissists are parasitic in nature, less responsibility the better.

'He had the nerve to say that Shanann didn't fight back as he murdered her because she was praying to God to forgive him. HE IS NUTS! Who on earth would even think and say such a ridiculous thing?'

Christian Longo all over again, a FA who's been diagnosed with NPD but more overt in his attention seeking and grandiosity while CW, introverted/covert who I might add, is a great storyteller, he revealed this also way before he was nailed by the investigators, he can talk endlessly about himself and sound quite sincere. It's wired into the condition to be delusional and NEVER accept responsibility! I think they do come across more pitiful than the self serving psychopath who doesn't give a crap about anyone's opinion.

I will never forget Shanann (Nico), Bella and CeCe Rzucek and the entire Rzucek family, bless them.

JMO