CO CO - Kelsey Berreth, 29, Woodland Park, Teller County, 22 Nov 2018 - #50 *ARREST*

[NanZDrew]

SF's word on the fire is important as confirmation of KK's story. Yes, KK took them to a spot where there had been a fire, but right now we only have her word that the fire took place when she said it did. PF and SF are the only two people who can confirm that there actually was a fire on that evening. Only PF can confirm what was burned, although SF could give hints based perhaps on the smells or smoke.

SF is one of only a couple people who can potentially testify as to when PF arrived at the ranchette on Thanksgiving Day with Baby K.

Something that I wondered about: LE found bits of black plastic and traces of an accelerant where the fire took place. According to KK, PF set the fire inside a round tank. PF was going to 'scoop' up the remains and dispose of them elsewhere.

If the tote and firewood were in the tank when the fire was built, presumably PF 'scooped' up the whole tank. So how did black plastic and traces of accelerant get left behind?

One fake scenario: PF could claim that anything the investigators found was from an old fire that was from before KB 'disappeared'. Right now, we don't have any evidence to the contrary - not that we are aware of, anyway.

SF's testimony could also back up or refute KK's story that she ate pizza, took an ibuprofen for her headache, and took a rest. I guess she could claim that she went straight to bed after Thanksgiving Dinner and didn't wake until morning, so she had no idea there was a fire or that KK was ever there.

If I were SF, I'd be careful about playing the 'memory' card. If she paints herself as a forgetful old lady who has trouble physically getting around, she's not exactly painting a good picture for someone who has hopes of getting custody of a healthy little grandchild. Not a good fit to put a little girl in the hands of an old lady with memory issues and physical limitations. living alone on a somewhat isolated property.

Great point about the custody issues. The attorney ad litem and the case worker assigned to Baby KB will get to interview SF and others that know them. This also is another opportunity where she could trip up in what she says here and what is said in court.

 

[NanZDrew]

Does anyone thinks KB stood in the bathroom and swung a used tampon around to get blood spatter everywhere? Not to sound crass but that's the most far-fetched idea I could think of to explain that.

I'm glad you said that. I was having the same visual picture.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I have a feeling he has had stomach issues at least 120 days. Planning a murder has got to work the nerves a tad overtime. 30 days for PF and KK to talk about it, 30 days x3 anticipating KK to get the job done.

On the other hand: you have to do here with PF and you have to do with KKL. They both would have stomach issues only, when nobody is serving a wide piece of Pizza or similar.

 

[whoizzit]

Typically, they don’t in Colorado.

I think we are all hoping that they do in this case.

If not, I hope the courtroom sketch artist is the same one who sketched Tom Brady, in that widely panned image that made him look like he was melting.

KK and PF would hate that.

Or maybe they can bring in an artist from NatGeo Wild.
Lifelike images of all sorts of beasts.
Transferrable skills.

I'm all in favor of anything that will make these two jerks unhappy; melting Brady or otherwise.

It's hard to imagine either of them with a more dour countenance than we've already seen, but I'm here for it!

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Great point about the custody issues. The attorney ad litem and the case worker assigned to Baby KB will get to interview SF and others that know them. This also is another opportunity where she could trip up in what she says here and what is said in court.

Oh, what an eggs dance this would be/would have been for SF (and EF)!!

 

[whoizzit]

I think SF could be called as a hostile witness by the prosecution team.

DA May will probably weigh the benefits vs. the risks of having Ma F. up there on the stand lying her leathery hide off. If he calls her and she lies under oath, though, he can charge her with perjury, so there's that.JMO.

Has 'leathery' ever been any more onomatopoeic?

I'm wheezing.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Speaking of ulcers...when do folks think PF and KK last talked?

They both got new phones around the same time, but I'm guessing if they talked again between then and his arrest, they used other people's phones or FB.

I wonder if she let him know the FBI had contacted her and she had told them the original set of lies.

One of the warrants mentioned that PF and KK communicated through FB messenger. I'd guess they were on high alert after PF's phone was confiscated, but I'd love to see those.

 

[steeltowngirl]

In case it hasn't been posted, it was a man's body found at a dump in Globeville. RIP

Thanks DK for this update. I was hopeful this could put an end to the search for Kelsey, but we will continue to wait.

Though I have been a disbeliever, I am feeling more convinced that Kelsey’s remains are at the Midway Landfill being actively searched. They are dedicating 40 searchers at the site with good reason.

I have been a doubter of the burn story, mainly due to KK’s prolific lies. But her phone pinged along with his near Nash Ranch, then back again near Florissant. Investigators located the burn spot.

Even without a body there’s enough evidence to convict PF. For me, finding the body is more about providing closure for Kelsey’s family. But KK has a vested interest that the remains be found to confirm her story, and solidify her plea deal. KK needs PF’s conviction to happen. If it turned out she lied and PF went free as a result, all bets are off. SHE would then be the number one suspect. Her plea deal would be off, and she could find HERSELF back on trial for first degree murder.

There, I’ve convinced myself.

So for now, we all continue to wait.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Does anyone thinks KB stood in the bathroom and swung a used tampon around to get blood spatter everywhere? Not to sound crass but that's the most far-fetched idea I could think of to explain that.

I haven’t used one of those things in years, but then again I’m not a very good cleaner. Off to check the top of my refrigerator!

 

[girlhasnoname]

Thanks DK for this update. I was hopeful this could put an end to the search for Kelsey, but we will continue to wait.

Though I have been a disbeliever, I am feeling more convinced that Kelsey’s remains are at the Midway Landfill being actively searched. They are dedicating 40 searchers at the site with good reason.

I have been a doubter of the burn story, mainly due to KK’s prolific lies. But her phone pinged along with his near Nash Ranch, then back again near Florissant. Investigators located the burn spot.

Even without a body there’s enough evidence to convict PF. For me, finding the body is more about providing closure for Kelsey’s family. But KK has a vested interest that the remains be found to confirm her story, and solidify her plea deal. KK needs PF’s conviction to happen. If it turned out she lied and PF went free as a result, all bets are off. SHE would then be the number one suspect. Her plea deal would be off, and she could find HERSELF back on trial for first degree murder.

There, I’ve convinced myself.

So for now, we all continue to wait.

I was of a similar mind STG, but have accepted that it is indeed the most logical conclusion as to what happened with KB's body. I hope more than anything searchers can find some of those remains in the landfill not only for the case, but more importantly for the Berreth family to lay to rest.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I was of a similar mind STG, but have accepted that it is indeed the most logical conclusion as to what happened with KB's body. I hope more than anything searchers can find some of those remains in the landfill not only for the case, but more importantly for the Berreth family to lay to rest.

I'm intensively hoping for the Berreth family and also for the searchers, which would be satisfied, if they hadn't done their very difficult and uncomfortable job for nothing.
A nice thought would be, if a suspect in a murder would have to stay for 8h/80 days in the middle of the landfill, sight and odor of the area all the time present, puke bucket not available ....

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Patrick Freeze picks up supplies before Kelsey Berreth was bmurdered, was speaking to third woman | Daily Mail Online

Patrick Frazee is pictured checking out baby supplies and formula at a WalMart on Thanksgiving Day in documents from his murder case that were obtained by DailyMail.com.

A still from the store’s surveillance system shows Frazee pushing a carriage with a baby seat which is believed to hold his daughter Kaylee just after 1pm.

It was minutes after this that Frazee was seen with a crate in his truck heading back to Berreth’s house, despite telling investigators he went straight home after his fiancee handed over their daughter earlier that afternoon.

A neighbor’s surveillance video shows that Frazee was inside the residence for two hours before leaving, during which time authorities now believe he murdered Berreth by bludgeoning her with a bat.

I think, PF gave little K to someone in Walmart, then returned without her to KB's address. So he would not be disturbed by the baby, whatever he was doing next. Maybe, he wouldn't reveal another "accomplice" to KKL and therefor told her, little K was in the backroom during the murder. KKL was in ID and couldn't control, if he said the truth and I think, she did not care any way.
Btw: A tampon was found, but no one is speaking of a used baby diaper.

 

[susiQ]

Could SF possibly be a witness for the defense?

I'm guessing a very "hostile" witness for the defence

 

[Noharg]

I'm guessing a very "hostile" witness for the defence

I don’t think we will ever hear from her. Like mother, like son.
JMO

 

[susiQ]

For the most part, if we’re being reasonable, you know when someone’s in your home. You know when someone who lives in your home has someone over. They don’t need to sign the guestbook, but you probably know they’re there unless your home is so large that you miss them. Do you have to bring out the champagne and hors d’oeuvres? no, but you can greet that person because they are in fact a guest in your home, Which just means they don’t live there..

she would have already known KK. Right?

as for the burning, I’ve seen it remarked on here both that it would draw a lot of attention, smoke, smell etc. Also been stated that PF’s mom would’ve been too busy taking care of a baby to notice? It can’t be both, right?

My thoughts are that SF came out onto the porch when it was already dark and the large fire would have certainly drawn her attention. This also leads me to think that Baby K was already tucked away for the night. Most 14 month old babies are early to bed, perhaps 7 - 7:30 p.m. if they are on a regular schedule. However, it doesn't sound like a regular schedule the night before her beloved mother was murdered, being driven out to tend to cows and then to Walmart in the middle of the night to pick up meds for her despicable father

 

[Julia966]

I wonder if LE is looking into what the mother claims will incriminate her, and if charges can be leveled.

 

[ajaylee]

I wonder if LE is looking into what the mother claims will incriminate her, and if charges can be leveled.

This is interesting. LE understandably wants SF to testify - and presumably they don't know exactly what information she might have.

If SF pleads the 5th, it means she has information that she thinks would incriminate her. If LE doesn't have her testimony, they have no way to prove or disprove that she has information that might incriminate her. She might be lying and the information she wants to protect would incriminate PF - but if she doesn't testify, LE can't prove that.

I don't know how the DA gets around that, other than perhaps offering SF immunity. Then if she refuses to testify, it will be clear that she's protecting PF.

 

[Noharg]

Dbm

 

[susiQ]

This is interesting. LE understandably wants SF to testify - and presumably they don't know exactly what information she might have.

If SF pleads the 5th, it means she has information that she thinks would incriminate her. If LE doesn't have her testimony, they have no way to prove or disprove that she has information that might incriminate her. She might be lying and the information she wants to protect would incriminate PF - but if she doesn't testify, LE can't prove that.

I don't know how the DA gets around that, other than perhaps offering SF immunity. Then if she refuses to testify, it will be clear that she's protecting PF.

My understanding is the DA wanted to question her about the time of PF's arrival for dinner and knowledge of when and how long KK was at the ranchette on the 24th. Maybe more. But is it even necessary for SF to attest to that given they have the cell tower ping info on PF's phone? Or, did he shut it off for a short period of time before he started texting to KB's phone? Sorry, I can't remember. Regrettably, I haven't had the opportunity to read all the SWs. Did they have cell phone pings for KK at the ranchette the evening of the 24th?

 

[Julia966]

This is interesting. LE understandably wants SF to testify - and presumably they don't know exactly what information she might have.

If SF pleads the 5th, it means she has information that she thinks would incriminate her. If LE doesn't have her testimony, they have no way to prove or disprove that she has information that might incriminate her. She might be lying and the information she wants to protect would incriminate PF - but if she doesn't testify, LE can't prove that.

I don't know how the DA gets around that, other than perhaps offering SF immunity. Then if she refuses to testify, it will be clear that she's protecting PF.

LE might know what it is. Just because she isn't testifying to it doesn't mean she is the only source of the information. That's what I'm wondering, if LE knows what it is.

The time of PF's arrival and KK being at the home wouldn't incriminate her, so I don't think she would be able to take the fifth on those pieces of information. I'm thinking it must be some action she took or didn't take that relates directly to the murder of KB or disposal of her body.