Found Deceased WI - Kathleen Ryan, adult, teacher, car found burned with body inside, St. Francis, 2 Feb 2019

[Curiousobserver]

For all the given scenarios, there would not be credit card or ATM usage, if her wallet was incinerated along with everything else.

Homicide might not involve robbery at all...

For me, the simplest answer when a driver and her car were burnt down together, is an accident. If she was found on the passenger seat, she must have stopped and got over to the other side, before some freak accident occurred. I don't know how that could happen though, without an object like another car involved.

Accident also possible. I have seen cars go from nothing to totally engulfed in 1-2 minutes from a gas-line leak. Not enough evidence to argue with anybody.

 

[kay74]

I say it was a homicide.
Last seen at noon on Saturday. She FaceTimed with her grand kids late that morning and showed them what she was bringing to them. Her husband was refereeing in Milwaukee that day.
She didn't have to be at the game, one and a half hours away until 4:30 pm. She seems to have allowed four and a half hours of travel time. She was to meet her family at the game.
Her usual travel route was down Interstate 94. She used a GPS. She didn't particularly like to drive alone but she had made the trip many, many times.
Her car was found at 10 pm that same night in a private driveway, aflame, with her in the passenger side. She and everything in the car ( as far as we know) were incinerated. This driveway was about 10 to 12 miles from her destination.
This private driveway was across the busy intersection of Stearns School Rd. and Rt. 41. Behind this property is a County Forest Preserve.
I believe she built some time into her travel that Saturday afternoon to stop at Gurnee Mills Mall. It is directly off the Interstate 94. She may have planned to do additional shopping for future gifts for family and friends for BDs and Easter and because this was a convenient opportunity to stop there, she did.
I believe she was abducted in the parking lot, put in the passenger side seat, driven out the back way from the mall parking lot, down Stearns School Rd. to intersection with Rt. 41, across the intersection because the driver thought the driveway was an entrance to the county forest.
I believe she was killed and the car set afire to hide evidence of murder. Also, anything in the car was destroyed. And, to this date he has been successful !

That is exactly what I believe happened!

 

[cluciano63]

But not much explains where she was until the time found...isn’t there a gap of many hours from when she should have arrived at game and when car was found? And was car on fire when found?

 

[Rosiebones]

But not much explains where she was until the time found...isn’t there a gap of many hours from when she should have arrived at game and when car was found? And was car on fire when found?

The car was fully engulfed in flames when police and fire were called at about 10 o'clock that evening. It is unknown when the car went up the driveway. The owners of the property declined to be interviewed ( I assume by MSM ).
It is possible that having a car for transportation was the point of the abduction and they drove around for some time before going up the driveway since they did not need the car anymore at that point. If that was the case, they may have been looking to discard the car in the county forest preserve. MOO MOO
It has not been released as to who notified police of the fire, the home owners or a car waiting at the light at the end of the driveway.
I didn't get the feeling that she was always on time or early for the games but that she never missed them.

 

[MntnHiker]

Sometimes the motive of a crime isn't robbery but either a sexual assault or the thrill of the crime. Perhaps that's where those lost hours went--maybe a perp abducted her earlier in the day and took her somewhere to do...whatever with her. Then he knew he had to dispose of her car/body, so under the cover of darkness, he set it on fire with her in it (possibly she was already deceased?) In this scenario, I have no idea why the perp would choose someone's driveway, but if there is a nature preserve nearby, maybe this isn't super obvious from the road that it is a person's driveway and he thought it was just a side road into the forest? We don't know how far down the drive the car was. This is all MOO but would be one way to account for all that missing time.

 

[Joe Friday]

I'm sure by now, LE has Kathleen's cell phone records and knows if her phone was turned on during her trip from Wisconsin to Illinois and they have determined the route Kathleen took, where Kathleen may have stopped along that route and at what time her phone transferred from cell phone tower to cell phone tower along the way.

One would speculate that Kathleen's cell phone would have been turned on if she was simply driving herself to the game with no intention of causing harm to herself. If Kathleen wanted to possibly "go dark" and not leave any electronic trace she may have turned off her phone prior to starting her trip. Obviously if there are no records of Kathleen's phone connecting to any towers since shortly after she was last seen in her home town and when the car was reported on fire, this would raise some red flags as to if Kathleen was possibly traveling and not wanting anyone to know where she was or if someone else was transporting her possibly against her will and doing the same.

If Kathleen was actually abducted somewhere along her route I would think her cell phone would have been turned on up to that point. If her abductor destroyed, disposed of or turned off her phone it would have given LE a starting point, time and location to where Kathleen may have been at that time when her phone stopped communicating with the cellular network.

For all we know, LE knows by Kathleen's cell phone records what route she took, where she stopped or didn't and at what time her car arrived at the private drive and that there was no suspicious activity that would indicate Kathleen was in trouble. That goes along with LE making that statement that there is no evidence that anyone did this to her.

JMO

 

[cluciano63]

It is hard to believe that criminal(s)were in possession of her and her car for all those hours...and yet police have been unable to uncover any signs of anyone else involved in her death. To me, that makes even less sense than suicide.

 

[Rosiebones]

Each of the possible manners of death have gaps in information that makes it hard to nail down the manner.

Accidental; she is in the passenger seat, why get out of the car and walk around and get back into a car that is on fire.
She pulled into a private driveway, out of sight of the intersection, why not pull in but stop so people can see you are in trouble and help you. For that matter, rt. 41 is not her usual route, interstate 94 is, why come all the way down Stearns School Road and up and out of sight if this was accidental.

Suicide; There are no reported behaviors that indicate that she was depressed or desperate. There is no reported note. In fact, she loved her family and grandchildren, she had FaceTimed them before leaving. This seems to me to be a fall back position because nothing else can be proven.

Homicide; The biggest unexplained gap in this to me is the amount of time between her expected arrival at the game and finding the car engulfed. If she was abducted at the last possible minute, that would have to have been at 4 o'clock because the game started at 4:30 and the car was found about 12 miles from her destination. So where was she and the car for nearly six hours?

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

I say it was a homicide.
Last seen at noon on Saturday. She FaceTimed with her grand kids late that morning and showed them what she was bringing to them. Her husband was refereeing in Milwaukee that day.
She didn't have to be at the game, one and a half hours away until 4:30 pm. She seems to have allowed four and a half hours of travel time. She was to meet her family at the game.
Her usual travel route was down Interstate 94. She used a GPS. She didn't particularly like to drive alone but she had made the trip many, many times.
Her car was found at 10 pm that same night in a private driveway, aflame, with her in the passenger side. She and everything in the car ( as far as we know) were incinerated. This driveway was about 10 to 12 miles from her destination.
This private driveway was across the busy intersection of Stearns School Rd. and Rt. 41. Behind this property is a County Forest Preserve.
I believe she built some time into her travel that Saturday afternoon to stop at Gurnee Mills Mall. It is directly off the Interstate 94. She may have planned to do additional shopping for future gifts for family and friends for BDs and Easter and because this was a convenient opportunity to stop there, she did.
I believe she was abducted in the parking lot, put in the passenger side seat, driven out the back way from the mall parking lot, down Stearns School Rd. to intersection with Rt. 41, across the intersection because the driver thought the driveway was an entrance to the county forest.
I believe she was killed and the car set afire to hide evidence of murder. Also, anything in the car was destroyed. And, to this date he has been successful ![/Q

First, why would she have been abducted? Children? Money? And, not only abducted, but her abductor was so incredibly confident that he just put her in the front seat. Okay... But then this very smart and sophisticated and confident criminal didn't have directions into the forest preserve, ad wound up on someone's driveway. But instead of turning around and going someplace more remote, he just killed her there and then set the car on fire??? Holy cow that's quite a theory.

 

[nyonge]

For those who think this a homicide, why did the police spokesperson go out of his way to indicate there was no evidence it was? You'd think that warnings would be liberally applied via the media if a middle-aged, middle class woman were carjacked perhaps at an area business, perhaps robbed or raped, and then murdered in the grisly aftermath of the first crimes. The police don't sit on their hats to suppress such warnings, they serve and protect. They don't hint at suicide in such a circumstance if they aren't darned sure that is what happened.

Why the distrust here of their spokesperson's statement?

 

[kay74]

It is hard to believe that criminal(s)were in possession of her and her car for all those hours...and yet police have been unable to uncover any signs of anyone else involved in her death. To me, that makes even less sense than suicide.

She was shopping! Then driven around by I assume druggies who did their thing. I do not believe suicide. That is an insult to her and her family.

 

[Detectivediva]

She was shopping! Then driven around by I assume druggies who did their thing. I do not believe suicide. That is an insult to her and her family.

With all due respect...between self harm and druggies driving around and doing their thing...which one seems more like a tall tale?

 

[Rosiebones]

For those who think this a homicide, why did the police spokesperson go out of his way to indicate there was no evidence it was? You'd think that warnings would be liberally applied via the media if a middle-aged, middle class woman were carjacked perhaps at an area business, perhaps robbed or raped, and then murdered in the grisly aftermath of the first crimes. The police don't sit on their hats to suppress such warnings, they serve and protect. They don't hint at suicide in such a circumstance if they aren't darned sure that is what happened.

Why the distrust here of their spokesperson's statement?

I, for one, don't distrust the LE's statement. But, there is no way to know if she was knocked unconscious, raped, robbed or some other way incapacitated, ever, unless someone confesses because she was incinerated. He said (at the time of his statement) that there was nothing to indicate someone did this to KR. I took that to mean at that time, because he went on to say the investigation was not closed and there was still a lot of electronic stuff to go through.
There is nothing to indicate where an abduction took place (if there even was one) , it could have been anywhere from Milwaukee to the driveway. I am being facetious, with that comment, but it demonstrates the vast amount of camera surveilence they would have to look at.

 

[kay74]

With all due respect...between self harm and druggies driving around and doing their thing...which one seems more like a tall tale?

Oh please, this happens alot in mall parking lots. Two of these last year alone in the city I used to live in and they were both "druggies"! We all don't live in Mayberry.

 

[kay74]

I, for one, don't distrust the LE's statement. But, there is no way to know if she was knocked unconscious, raped, robbed or some other way incapacitated, ever, unless someone confesses because she was incinerated. He said (at the time of his statement) that there was nothing to indicate someone did this to KR. I took that to mean at that time, because he went on to say the investigation was not closed and there was still a lot of electronic stuff to go through.
There is nothing to indicate where an abduction took place (if there even was one) , it could have been anywhere from Milwaukee to the driveway. I am being facetious, with that comment, but it demonstrates the vast amount of camera surveilence they would have to look at.

They should not have said anything until all surveilence was checked out. I would start at Gurnee Mills.

 

[Detectivediva]

Oh please, this happens alot in mall parking lots. Two of these last year alone in the city I used to live in and they were both "druggies"! We all don't live in Mayberry.

I live in Cali and there are assuredly some methheads in town so I understand that many crimes are drug-fueled. It is hard to know if robbery might've been a motive. I just don't think there is a good reason for a junkie to torch her vehicle. Honestly we'll probably never know conclusively and maybe that's better in this case. If she committed self harm she went out of her way to make it look like something else. The method... being in the passenger side...taking an alternative route. Maybe we should just respect her wishes and chalk it up to a random drug-fueled crime while driving to her beloved son's games.

 

[Rosiebones]

There are considerations to focus the visual surveillance tapes.
To check all of cars leaving the parking lot through the rear entrance, because a right hand turn from brings the car right to the intersection with the driveway. Also, if she had stopped to buy gifts for Easter or BDs of the children, that would initially, at least, eliminate some shops.
It , also, has never been said that an accelerant was used, but that doesn't, therefore, mean one was not used.

 

[realanastasia]

Suicide; There are no reported behaviors that indicate that she was depressed or desperate. There is no reported note. In fact, she loved her family and grandchildren, she had FaceTimed them before leaving. This seems to me to be a fall back position because nothing else can be proven.

Apologies for sounding like a broken record but I feel compelled to reiterate a point I made earlier, which is that IMO (and based on the medical evidence cited in the NYT article I posted a while ago), the absence of “reported behaviors” indicating desperation or depression, or the absence of a note indicating the same, proves nothing in terms of whether this was self-harm or not.

IMO, it’s problematic to note that “she loved her family and grandchildren” as though that makes it impossible that her death was self-inflicted (I am not sure if that is how you intended that sentence to read, Rosiebones, but that was the way I took it). IMO, a person can simultaneously have an abiding love of their family AND decide (either on the spur of the moment or as part of a long-term plan) to end their own life.

This is not at all directed to you, Rosiebones, or anyone specifically, but I’d love to see a moratorium declared on posting outraged comments about how even suggesting the possibility of suicide is an affront to this woman’s memory. Those comments reflect ONLY the value judgements of their authors, not mine and (barring any actual evidence of the deceased woman making statements to this effect) not the victim’s, and look a lot like efforts to silence the discussion of topics (like suicide) that said commenters feel are distasteful or disrespectful to the victim’s memory.

 

[PayrollNerd]

The possibility of an affair popped into my head this morning. Reading between the lines of her marital relationship, this would not be out of the realm of possibility. A man in a happy marriage, who’s lost his soulmate, best friend, etc. doesn't usually remain a recluse during the investigation. That’s my opinion of course.

When she left around noon, there’s no proof (yet) that her intent was to go directly toward the ballgame. Maybe instead of shopping at a great big obvious mall, she intentionally stayed a bit more under the radar.

Perhaps the affair ended that day, albeit in a horrible fashion. One thing is for sure, her marriage ended that day, intentionally or not, in a horrible fashion. In my opinion, that suited someone just fine, and it wasn’t her.

 

[nyonge]

I, for one, don't distrust the LE's statement.

snip

Why? What would be the rationale for LE to insinuate that a Catholic woman, a teacher from a middle class home, committed suicide if such did not look very much like the case?