CA - Off Duty Police Officer shoots man and parents after altercation in Costco, Corona, June 2019

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Reasonable & Just said:
I wonder, from the NYT witness description, if Mr. French's aggression triggered PTSD in the shooter. The strike may have been very hard, but maybe the physical blow wasn't what caused the "heart attack" appearance.

I don't think it was simple rage on the shooter's part, although rage was likely in the mix. It also doesn't sound like he cried for help before opening fire, based on this account (but maybe there's more to come).
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I sort of doubt that the “heart attack appearance” was rage, though, only because the quoted eyewitness was a 21-year old woman, and this is pure conjecture, but I know I wouldn’t, as she described, start to approach an “enraged” man to help him.
 
jjenny said:
Well, I wouldn't count that this witness saw everything, considering she believed the cop fell because he had a heart attack, so she apparently did not even see an initial shove/push, whatever it was.
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I agree... there must’ve been a lot of witnesses, especially since there was a line for the food samples. I wonder if police have interviewed them and told them to not speak to the media yet.
 
Jessthinkin said:
I agree... there must’ve been a lot of witnesses, especially since there was a line for the food samples. I wonder if police have interviewed them and told them to not speak to the media yet.
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Police/prosecution don't usually want witnesses to talk to the media, considering that if there is a trial, whatever witness tells the media could be compared to what they say on the stand.
In this particular case, police could also be trying to protect their fellow cop and that could be an additional reason why they don't want witnesses to talk to the media.
 
Jessthinkin said:
I sort of doubt that the “heart attack appearance” was rage, though, only because the quoted eyewitness was a 21-year old woman, and this is pure conjecture, but I know I wouldn’t, as she described, start to approach an “enraged” man to help him.
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Right, I'm saying that he seemed to be in distress (terror/panic - "heart attack") initially after he was attacked by French. Then, anger may have kicked in and he shot. I'm trying to not paint the shooter as a horrible violent guy with a gun. My guess is that there is mental instability/PTSD behind this reaction.
 
RANCH said:
I wonder what the witness means by "altercation". I would like to know the details of this altercation.

Costco Shooting Leaves Family of Man Killed by Off-Duty Officer Demanding Answers
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Well, she describes it so I presume that's what she meant by altercation.
“He stood up by himself. He pulled out his handgun and starts triggering five to seven shots,” Ms. Bawit said, adding that she was within 10 feet of the men and then took cover. “I was hiding in between the meat aisle, behind the freezer section. I thought I was going to be dead, too.”
Costco Shooting Leaves Family of Man Killed by Off-Duty Officer Demanding Answers
 
jjenny said:
Well, she describes it so I presume that's what she meant by altercation.
“He stood up by himself. He pulled out his handgun and starts triggering five to seven shots,” Ms. Bawit said, adding that she was within 10 feet of the men and then took cover. “I was hiding in between the meat aisle, behind the freezer section. I thought I was going to be dead, too.”
Costco Shooting Leaves Family of Man Killed by Off-Duty Officer Demanding Answers
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It seems to me that there's more details than that. He stood up and shot. That's it?

Was there any shouting by anyone? Any movement by French? JMO
 
RANCH said:
It seems to me that there's more details than that. He stood up and shot. That's it?

Was there any shouting by anyone? Any movement by French? JMO
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Well, she retreated because he started shooting and she was scared for her life at that point. So I presume him getting up and getting his handgun and shooting is what she means by altercation escalating. Yes, some other key details seem to be missing from the description.
 
jjenny said:
Well, she retreated because he started shooting and she was scared for her life at that point. So I presume him getting up and getting his handgun and shooting is what she means by altercation escalating. Yes, some other key details seem to be missing from the description.
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We only see the portion published. She may have said more. Or, she may have been asked by LE not to speak on more than what she said to the press.
 
jjenny said:
Well, she retreated because he started shooting and she was scared for her life at that point. So I presume him getting up and getting his handgun and shooting is what she means by altercation escalating. Yes, some other key details seem to be missing from the description.
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Yes some details are missing.

What was the distance between the officer and French during this altercation. Was French moving towards the officer or moving away? Standing still? French's hands are where?
 
RANCH said:
Yes some details are missing.

What was the distance between the officer and French during this altercation. Was French moving towards the officer or moving away? Standing still? French's hands are where?
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Also, what the shooter said as he faced the victim? What did the father say to the shooter as he was talking before the shooter unloaded his weapon? What was the timing between the father speaking to the shooter and the first shot? Where were the parents in relation to their son and the shooter? In between the two? Flanking their son? Behind their son?
 
BayouBelle_LA said:
How can you retreat if you’ve been attacked and thrown to the ground while holding a 1 year old. I don’t think you should wait to see what comes next. Protect your family.
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And, take the consequences if you read the situation wrong and the DA thinks you acted criminally and charges you?
 
kaen said:
Also, what the shooter said as he faced the victim? What did the father say to the shooter as he was talking before the shooter unloaded his weapon? What was the timing between the father speaking to the shooter and the first shot? Where were the parents in relation to their son and the shooter? In between the two? Flanking their son? Behind their son?
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Yes, I would like to know all of those things from video and witness's before I can come to a conclusion on whether the officer legally acted in self defense. JMO
 
A cooler head without a gun would, after getting kocked down by a person with mental issues, say wtf and then get up and listen irritatedly while the Dad appologized and explained. A hothead without a gun would get up, ignore the explanations and shove back. A hothead with a gun.....I think we know....MOO The eye witness being quoted didn't say that the cop got up as French stood over him or as he kicked him or as he beat him she implied that the cop escalated the altercation by getting up and opening fire. all MOO of course.
 
Reasonable & Just said:
Right, I'm saying that he seemed to be in distress (terror/panic - "heart attack") initially after he was attacked by French. Then, anger may have kicked in and he shot. I'm trying to not paint the shooter as a horrible violent guy with a gun. My guess is that there is mental instability/PTSD behind this reaction.
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BBM, Yes, I've stated a similar thought. PTSD triggers come in many forms and this would be an obvious one.
 
fannneee said:
A cooler head without a gun would, after getting kocked down by a person with mental issues, say wtf and then get up and listen irritatedly while the Dad appologized and explained. A hothead without a gun would get up, ignore the explanations and shove back. A hothead with a gun.....I think we know....MOO The eye witness being quoted didn't say that the cop got up as French stood over him or as he kicked him or as he beat him she implied that the cop escalated the altercation by getting up and opening fire. all MOO of course.
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I would add that a cooler head with a gun would do the same as bolded, (though maybe a cool-headed person would yell a bit and threaten to call the police or ask for an ambulance if injured). It used to be a mark of honor for lawmen to claim they never had to unholster. Now, it's almost weird not to take action at any degree of threat. I have had my share of surprise hits, including being knocked down from behind. It's horrifying, humiliating, and terrifying. But "kill" was not my first thought upon getting up.
 
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May be irrelevant (and it NOT intended to victim blame), but I just wonder why the French's took their unmedicated son to Costco and if he showed signs of being agitated prior to the incident. Was Costco something he enjoyed, and they thought would make him happy, despite the crowds? Or maybe they needed groceries and neither parent could handle him on their own while the other shopped?
 
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