Found Deceased UT - MacKenzie "Kenzie" Lueck, 23, Salt Lake City, 17 June 2019 #18 *ARREST*

[BradB]

Think about how late it is us discussing this case on a website forum and really think about how different it is to actually be out and about this time.

Whether predator or victim, the psychological mindset one has to maneuver about this time is off. Something isnt all there. I'm not talking work related either.

 

[thebedbug]

Think about how late it is us discussing this case on a website forum and really think about how different it is to actually be out and about this time.

Whether predator or victim, the psychological mindset one has to do maneuver about this time is off. Something isnt all there. I'm not talking work related either.

I think it's a real good point. When we know more about the relationship between ML/AA it will provide a better context for our theories.

 

[Zella]

Think about how late it is us discussing this case on a website forum and really think about how different it is to actually be out and about this time.

Whether predator or victim, the psychological mindset one has to maneuver about this time is off. Something isnt all there. I'm not talking work related either.

Do you mean the psychological mindset of being up at 3 AM? I'm not sure that's necessarily indicative of anything on its own. I am routinely up at that time and not due to a work schedule. I'm just a night owl--and, weirdly enough, also a morning person --so I like being up at that time.

In ML's case, though we don't know why she didn't go straight home, we do know one reason she was up--she had a late-night flight and a delayed one at that. But if she's anything like most of my friends were in college, it's not unusual to be up at that time for no apparent reason.

And if AA worked from home as some have speculated, part of the appeal might have been keeping odd hours. That's not inherently sinister, though I'm sure he was up to no good, regardless of the time.

 

[BradB]

I'm not talking about being up and being in your house at this time. I'm talking actually going out. Actually going about whatever during this time. If it isnt work or emergency related then in my opinion doom will ring down eventually.

 

[Zella]

I'm not talking about being up and being in your house at this time. I'm talking actually going out. Actually going about whatever during this time. If it isnt work or emergency related then in my opinion doom will ring down eventually.

Yes, bad things can happen to people out and about in the middle of the night, but bad things also happen to people in their homes and in the middle of broad daylight.

 

[Seattle1]

I'm not talking about being up and being in your house at this time. I'm talking actually going out. Actually going about whatever during this time. If it isnt work or emergency related then in my opinion doom will ring down eventually.

Grandmother's always tell you nothing good goes down after midnight, and who's going to argue with grandma....

 

[wary]

Snipped for focus

“The psychology at work here,” is about making sense of the evidence.

It would have been easier for him to get her from the airport.

It would have been easier for her, had she gone straight to his house.

They meet at the park, and her phone dies, never returning to life.

He doesn’t have that problem, as cell phone records show that he made it back to his house about 7 minutes after picking her up.

All of these things benefited him, and benefited him greatly.

I think it’s far more logical to believe that this is not only evidence of nefarious intent, but evidence of premeditation as well.

Just trying to think things out.

Whose idea was it that he should meet her at the park, rather than at the airport? I can’t think of any reason why she would suggest that. It certainly wasn’t convenient for her, and there is no logical reason that she’d think it was convenient for him.

He, as a murderer, benefited by the choice of the park as the meeting place. (Even if it only bought him a few days.) I suppose it’s possible that there was an innocent reason for choosing the park, but we haven’t gotten a hint of what an innocent reason would be.

The time frame is so short, from the time Lyft dropped her off, till they’re back at the house. I don’t see that it allows time for any discussion or change of plans. I guess there’s a chance that they got on the road, heading in the general direction of his house, but to a different destination, and then he said: “Why don’t we go to my house instead?” I think that’s a very remote chance.

So, that leaves two possibilities. One—that he took her to his house by force. That certainly indicates nefarious intent.

Or, that she went to his house willingly. In that case, why would she not take the Lyft to his house? Obviously, if he had murder in mind, he would not want that. Is there any other reason he wouldn’t want the Lyft driver as a witness to her arrival? I can’t think of any. Again, there might be some non-nefarious reason, but what would it be? (No, he doesn’t care if the neighbors are disturbed by the Lyft arriving in the middle of the night! He’s running an AirBnB!)

More or less saying the same things you did—just using a lot more words to say them. MOO

 

[wary]

Grandmother's always tell you nothing good goes down after midnight, and who's going to argue with grandma....

In this case, what happened after midnight was that her plane landed safely. I doubt that the time of night was relevant in any other way. I think she’d have been in equal danger if she ended up in his control in the blazing mid day.

MOO

 

[MassGuy]

Just trying to think things out.

Whose idea was it that he should meet her at the park, rather than at the airport? I can’t think of any reason why she would suggest that. It certainly wasn’t convenient for her, and there is no logical reason that she’d think it was convenient for him.

He, as a murderer, benefited by the choice of the park as the meeting place. (Even if it only bought him a few days.) I suppose it’s possible that there was an innocent reason for choosing the park, but we haven’t gotten a hint of what an innocent reason would be.

The time frame is so short, from the time Lyft dropped her off, till they’re back at the house. I don’t see that it allows time for any discussion or change of plans. I guess there’s a chance that they got on the road, heading in the general direction of his house, but to a different destination, and then he said: “Why don’t we go to my house instead?” I think that’s a very remote chance.

So, that leaves two possibilities. One—that he took her to his house by force. That certainly indicates nefarious intent.

Or, that she went to his house willingly. In that case, why would she not take the Lyft to his house? Obviously, if he had murder in mind, he would not want that. Is there any other reason he wouldn’t want the Lyft driver as a witness to her arrival? I can’t think of any. Again, there might be some non-nefarious reason, but what would it be? (No, he doesn’t care if the neighbors are disturbed by the Lyft arriving in the middle of the night! He’s running an AirBnB!)

More or less saying the same things you did—just using a lot more words to say them.

Haaaa. We are in agreement.

The thing that gets me too, is the damn phone thing. I don’t like the attack beginning in the car, because it makes no damn sense.

So much easier to have her come inside the house, and then do it at that point.

But her phone went dead, and he almost certainly needed that.

As far as we know, his didn’t do that.

But I may be overthinking things, because this guy doesn’t think like me.

 

[BradB]

Delete

 

[Seattle1]

In this case, what happened after midnight was that her plane landed safely. I doubt that the time of night was relevant in any other way. I think she’d have been in equal danger if she ended up in his control in the blazing mid day.

MOO

I think you missed both my point, and that of o/p I was replying to.

Late flight arrival is out of your control. Upon 2 AM arrival, Grandmother would say go home, and reschedule the rendezvous for another day.

MOO

 

[ab01]

If you make that assumption about him then what assumption would I make if she continued to make the decisions she made?

Welp she’s dead for one and AA murdered her.

Are you trying to say it’s the victims fault that she was brutally murdered? Had her brains beat in and her body burned in a fire pit?

 

[dogmom805]

I circled the boots in blue and what I believe to be a black crossbody bag circled in green.

I've clearly been looking at this too long. The tarp the items are laying on is tripping me out! I now realize the "hamster" a few of us saw earlier, I believe is created by tree leaves and shadows...... In the photo that Whiteorchids just posted regarding the black crossbody bag which is circled in green, there is a really cute puppy face laying right next to it!

Just a little humor we all need.....

 

[wary]

Haaaa. We are in agreement.

The thing that gets me too, is the damn phone thing. I don’t like the attack beginning in the car, because it makes no damn sense.

So much easier to have her come inside the house, and then do it at that point.

But her phone went dead, and he almost certainly needed that.

As far as we know, his didn’t do that.

But I may be overthinking things, because this guy doesn’t think like me.

I agree that the attack beginning in the car doesn’t make sense—and there’s almost no room in the timeframe for it.

There’s almost no room in the timeframe for him to turn off her phone, too. However, almost certainly SOMEONE turned off her phone, because the alternative of the battery running down at that exact moment would be quite a coincidence.

Here’s where we disagree. I think that there’s a solid chance that she turned off her phone. It goes off at the exact moment that, from her standpoint, she doesn’t need it any more, because she’s safely in contact with her destination. So, that wouldn’t be a coincidence as much as just a logical sequence of events. And we know that he wasn’t into turning phones off, because the genius left his on, all the way home.

I seriously believe that LE has their chats, and that those will explain many mysteries.

 

[wary]

I think you missed both my point, and that of o/p I was replying to.

Late flight arrival is out of your control. Upon 2 AM arrival, Grandmother would say go home, and reschedule the rendezvous for another day.

MOO

My point was—in what way would meeting AA at 3:00 am be more dangerous than meeting him at 3:00 pm?

P.S. Many things are more dangerous at 3:00 am—like jogging. I agree that if the Lyft driver had dropped her off in the park before her ride got there—that would be more dangerous at 3:00 than 3:00 pm.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree that the attack beginning in the car doesn’t make sense—and there’s almost no room in the timeframe for it.

There’s almost no room in the timeframe for him to turn off her phone, too. However, almost certainly SOMEONE turned off her phone, because the alternative of the battery running down at that exact moment would be quite a coincidence.

Here’s where we disagree. I think that there’s a solid chance that she turned off her phone. It goes off at the exact moment that, from her standpoint, she doesn’t need it any more, because she’s safely in contact with her destination. So, that wouldn’t be a coincidence as much as just a logical sequence of events. And we know that he wasn’t into turning phones off, because the genius left his on, all the way home.

I seriously believe that LE has their chats, and that those will explain many mysteries.

I’m still struggling to understand her turning her phone off, although I definitely think it’s plausible that she did it herself.

The question is if she did it under duress or not.

He just really needed that to happen, and for her to say “I guess I’ll do the one thing you need me to do,” is a bit tough.

 

[janewall]

The 25th, the day before the search of his property.

On Friday, authorities found Lueck’s “charred” body in a “wooded area, in a shallow grave with brush over it” in Logan Canyon. Her arms were bound with a zip tie and rope, and part of her left scalp was missing. Phone records indicate Ajayi was in the canyon on June 25, Gill said.

Body of Slain University of Utah Student Mackenzie Lueck Was Found Bound in Shallow Grave

We know AA was in the canyon at that location on the 25th, as indicated by his phone pings.

I find it almost impossible to imagine how he could undetectably store a charred, decomposing body over the previous @1 week. Especially in June – it wasn't as though he could preserve it in a snowdrift. The idea of him leaving all of her skeletal and tissue remains in the burn pile for days, in full line of sight (and smell) of neighbors' houses just a few feet away over the fence, then digging almost everything up and transferring it to his car, beggars belief. Of course, everything to do with the burn beggars belief, but if a neighbor complained of the burn smell surely the after-burn smell also would be noxious?

Perhaps the "white cabinet" visible in the footage of the garage search was a freezer? Or he had one in the house, that we haven't seen?

Or perhaps he visited the canyon days earlier to carry out the burial - late on the 18th, or maybe the 19th – and his trip on the 25th was a follow-up to check on the condition of the burial site, or simply to revisit the thrill of his kill. Maybe he didn't take his phone along on an earlier trip. (Hey, dumb luck could strike even AA.). Or maybe he did, and LE hasn't revealed that bit of info to the public.

He was only there for 2 hours on the 25th. Not much time to dig even a shallow grave in hard rocky soil, then fill it in and (possibly) attempt to conceal it.

 

[MassGuy]

We know AA was in the canyon at that location on the 25th, as indicated by his phone pings.

I find it almost impossible to imagine how he could undetectably store a charred, decomposing body over the previous @1 week. Especially in June – it wasn't as though he could preserve it in a snowdrift. The idea of him leaving all of her skeletal and tissue remains in the burn pile for days, in full line of sight (and smell) of neighbors' houses just a few feet away over the fence, then digging almost everything up and transferring it to his car, beggars belief. Of course, everything to do with the burn beggars belief, but if a neighbor complained of the burn smell surely the after-burn smell also would be noxious?

Perhaps the "white cabinet" visible in the footage of the garage search was a freezer? Or he had one in the house, that we haven't seen?

Or perhaps he visited the canyon days earlier to carry out the burial - late on the 18th, or maybe the 19th – and his trip on the 25th was a follow-up to check on the condition of the burial site, or simply to revisit the thrill of his kill. Maybe he didn't take his phone along on an earlier trip. (Hey, dumb luck could strike even AA.). Or maybe he did, and LE hasn't revealed that bit of info to the public.

He was only there for 2 hours on the 25th. Not much time to dig even a shallow grave in hard rocky soil, then fill it in and (possibly) attempt to conceal it.

I think the hard part was the stench in the first place (when he burned her body).

Perhaps he burned her to such an extent that the smell dissipated.

I’m not struggling to believe that this idiot did in fact unearth her on the day his cell phone was tracked.

I think he got lucky, and no one spotted him.

Who knows though.

 

[Seattle1]

My point was—in what way would meeting AA at 3:00 am be more dangerous than meeting him at 3:00 pm?

P.S. Many things are more dangerous at 3:00 am—like jogging. I agree that if the Lyft driver had dropped her off in the park before her ride got there—that would be more dangerous at 3:00 than 3:00 pm.

I'm not talking about being up and being in your house at this time. I'm talking actually going out. Actually going about whatever during this time. If it isnt work or emergency related then in my opinion doom will ring down eventually.

^bbm

We were talking about "doom will ring down eventually" i.e., the after hours fable.

To your interjection and/or point, no-- a predator does not discriminate about the time or day to attack.

 

[wary]

I’m still struggling to understand her turning her phone off, although I definitely think it’s plausible that she did it herself.

The question is if she did it under duress or not.

He just really needed that to happen, and for her to say “I guess I’ll do the one thing you need me to do,” is a bit tough.

Well, I know people have said that someone of her age would never, ever, ever let their phone run low on its charge. I feel really skeptical about that. So, again, it goes off at a moment when turning it off to save its charge makes sense.

And, there’s the commitment issue. Turning off your phone implies that you’re going to pay attention to the person you’re with.

I’m actually not as committed to this theory as I sound. But, I’m suspicious of any theory that starts out with ‘No one would ever.”
(No one would ever turn their own phone off.)