Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #108

[susiQ]

MOO I would like ro know if they have run this BG guy's voice.

Interesting you mention this! A few weeks back I had to call due to my bank card being rejected (turns out it was too old and worn out ). Couldn't remember the password I'd used as it had been so long since calling in for anything. The guy a the other end said, "No worries, you've already been verified to this account by your voice!" I was dumbfounded. First time I'd come across that. Sooooo, I have a voice I'd like to compare to BG! I'm sure we all do

 

[crazychris]

Interesting you mention this! A few weeks back I had to call due to my bank card being rejected (turns out it was too old and worn out ). Couldn't remember the password I'd used as it had been so long since calling in for anything. The guy a the other end said, "No worries, you've already been verified to this account by your voice!" I was dumbfounded. First time I'd come across that. Sooooo, I have a voice I'd like to compare to BG! I'm sure we all do

Wow, never heard of that before.

 

[BNA]

And never solve it as we approach thread 109. LE have it under control.
Fingers crossed.

Yep. We have to hope LE has matters under control.

We will never approach anything like a consensus solution here, given that there are just too many things that we are not allowed to discuss frankly, frankly.

And then, when an arrest is made, some folks will be able to say: "See. That is what I was trying to tell you."

It does not matter a bit to me if I am one of those folks. I just want this guy out of my head.

Of course, I doubt he will be out of my head....as we will move on to watching from afar as he and his enablers try to muddy the waters during pre-trial, trial, and so forth.

 

[tresir2012]

Wow, never heard of that before.

My bank keep asking me to do this but I find it spooky. I do telephone banking only . I won't even trust internet banking. :-(

 

[somequestions]

This is another similar comment by Carter, only days following the murders.

Feb 22/17
“To Abby and Libby, it is my hope and prayer they are now experiencing God's promise of eternal peace," Carter said as he left the podium at the news conference.”
Life changes in Delphi as hunt for killer continues

It is hard to interpret what Supt. Carter said because the simple explanation could just be that he is a religious man. He referenced the movie, "The Shack". I have never seen this movie but have read a summary about it.

With all the people that look at this case along with the different law enforcement agencies involved I think of the movie Citizen X. That movie was a true story about a Russian serial killer. I know it is unfair to compare this crime with a Russian serial killer since all we know so far is that this person is responsible for the deaths of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

I just keep thinking there had to be some motive in this case. And then I think that not releasing the manner of death or the autopsy or audio or video is more than just keeping it private although I understand why they cannot release that information. All the religious quotes from Supt. Carter led me to believe whatever he saw regarding Abigail Williams and Liberty German was truly evil.
And if police did the same thing as the detective in that other case, collecting every can, bottle, etc to solve the case, then they are doing their job, even if the person has not been caught yet.

Without any information all we can do is guess. Everything I write about this case is just a guess.

 

[tresir2012]

Yep. We have to hope LE has matters under control.

We will never approach anything like a consensus solution here, given that there are just too many things that we are not allowed to discuss frankly, frankly.

And then, when an arrest is made, some folks will be able to say: "See. That is what I was trying to tell you."

It does not matter a bit to me if I am one of those folks. I just want this guy out of my head.

Of course, I doubt he will be out of my head....as we will move on to watching from afar as he and his enablers try to muddy the waters during pre-trial, trial, and so forth.

I hope we will all be too overcome with relief if there were to be an arrest, to even worry about who was right or wrong.

 

[susiQ]

My bank keep asking me to do this but I find it spooky. I do telephone banking only . I won't even trust internet banking. :-(

What I find alarming is, my bank never asked me. What is more perplexing is that I didn't even challenge them on it as I was relieved I didn't have to go through all the security questions. So, if they could be so confident that it was me, why can't they run BG's "Guys.....down the hill," against a few suspects to see who it may be? Heck, if the technology is good enough for my bank, it should be of some value to LE. JMT

 

[IQuestion]

It really should have been called, IMO. No matter what LE was getting from family about where they could possibly be, just the phone going straight to voicemail after the person the girls knew was picking them up called them. AJMO

SUNSHINERAY You are making some really good points. I can not Monday Morning Quarterback what "didn't happen" after 3:30 pm on Feb. 13th. But, having read some of the criteria for an Amber Alert, their ages (only 8th graders), unrelated adolescents (so not like they ran away from home to an absent parent), the fact they were not dressed for the incredibly cold temperature of that night, or one of the girls might have had a medical condition (thinking anaphylactic shock to a bee sting, siezures or antibiotic etc.), and they disappeared in a public park venue. Just looking at all the things they were part of in the community...these were not runaways who decided to go to a Rave Party! Ya' know, even as I type this, I realize why so many members of the community stayed to help look for the girls. Their noble efforts make my eyes tear and heart burdened. I am thinking there were lots of heroes that day and night....all praying for a positive outcome. I think people in this community are used to taking care of themselves. Even their fire department is manned by volunteers. Did you know they keep a picture of a lighted candle for Abby & Libby on their FB Homepage?
Since no one knew the make of model of the vehicle, I don't think road blocks would have worked. And now that LE believes he
is local, what road block would stop him from running to his home, 1 mile away?
BTW, to anyone reading...if your loved one doesn't show up at the appointed time...get on the phone ASAP and make LE aware of any medical condition that requires medication and could put your loved one in additional danger.

 

[somequestions]

One of the main questions in the case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German is: Did they know their killer?

If you know someone or have communicated with them online, I think you would refer to them by their first name. So how many times during the recording does the killer refer to Abby or Libby by their first name?

The term "guys" always had me leaning towards the idea that they did not know their killer. But this is based off what audio has been released. If they did know their killer that changes the whole dynamic of the case for me. Again, all anyone can do is speculate without more information.

 

[Imvp2]

What I find alarming is, my bank never asked me. What is more perplexing is that I didn't even challenge them on it as I was relieved I didn't have to go through all the security questions. So, if they could be so confident that it was me, why can't they run BG's "Guys.....down the hill," against a few suspects to see who it may be? Heck, if the technology is good enough for my bank, it should be of some value to LE. JMT

MOO They can analyze the audio recording they do have to create a visual rendition of what the person may look like. The article showed samples that were pretty promising.
I just wonder if LE has done this with the audio, finding the rendition comes to look a great deal like the composite sketch they had early on, but discounted it

 

[JudgeJudi]

Who is CE then?

I think there's some confusion right now because there are two CE's. One was a possible suspect (male) and the other someone that was at the bridge that day taking photos (female). Hope this helps!

This confusion is easily resolved. The female has a middle name so she should be referred to as CME.

 

[susiQ]

MOO They can analyze the audio recording they do have to create a visual rendition of what the person may look like. The article showed samples that were pretty promising.
I just wonder if LE has done this with the audio, finding the rendition comes to look a great deal like the composite sketch they had early on, but discounted it

It would certainly be interesting to see such a likeness made, but I was strictly referring to voice recognition and comparison, not developing a face from the voice. LE HAS his voice and surely they have a least a few suspects by now?

 

[ScumbagTrav]

Watching a ID true crime show with my wife, and a man on it said something that I had heard before years ago (while researching Zodiac) but never applied it to this case...

That often times the killer attends the funeral(s) of his victims.

Any chance LE took photographs of the funeral attendes or those attending the balloon release, etc?

 

[Jabarn]

SUNSHINERAY You are making some really good points. I can not Monday Morning Quarterback what "didn't happen" after 3:30 pm on Feb. 13th. But, having read some of the criteria for an Amber Alert, their ages (only 8th graders), unrelated adolescents (so not like they ran away from home to an absent parent), the fact they were not dressed for the incredibly cold temperature of that night, or one of the girls might have had a medical condition (thinking anaphylactic shock to a bee sting, siezures or antibiotic etc.), and they disappeared in a public park venue. Just looking at all the things they were part of in the community...these were not runaways who decided to go to a Rave Party! Ya' know, even as I type this, I realize why so many members of the community stayed to help look for the girls. Their noble efforts make my eyes tear and heart burdened. I am thinking there were lots of heroes that day and night....all praying for a positive outcome. I think people in this community are used to taking care of themselves. Even their fire department is manned by volunteers. Did you know they keep a picture of a lighted candle for Abby & Libby on their FB Homepage?
Since no one knew the make of model of the vehicle, I don't think road blocks would have worked. And now that LE believes he
is local, what road block would stop him from running to his home, 1 mile away?
BTW, to anyone reading...if your loved one doesn't show up at the appointed time...get on the phone ASAP and make LE aware of any medical condition that requires medication and could put your loved one in additional danger.

So many thoughts have been shared here involving the motive, modus and opportunity. I am of two thoughts, each separated based on the means, motive and opportunity.

The first is he was a hunter (possibly a repeat offender) waiting for a situation to present itself, and either way, moved on before or after the dust settled. Means= he corralled them, motive = sexual/control/murder, and opportunity = they crossed his path.

The second is he had information the girls would be there, whatever way, and planned a sabotage. Means= he tricked one or both, or someone known to them, or had prior understanding of their plans, motive= revenge, sexual/control/murder, and opportunity=he was aware the girls would be there.

 

[IQuestion]

This is purely anecdotal... but I can tell you honestly, that the first time I saw Millie Vanilli on video singing a song, I turned to my wife and said, those voices don't match those lip movements. They aren't singing.

It was like 5 years later that the scandal broke when they were live on stage when the record skipped so to speak...and that they were not singing any of their songs. When my wife heard the news she said, "Oh my God! You called that one! And you've never said that about any other singers except them!"

Not bragging at all... but I could probably match 80% of the random voices versus a face.???

JUSTICE101101 bbm, ??? Would you share what your impressions are of the voice, "Guys" "Down the hill" recording. Does it sound like an 18-19 year old, 20-30 year old or older? Another thought...do you think women and men hear voices differently? I know in Europe & England, you can almost narrow down the town a person comes from because of dialect and intonations.

 

[sunshineray]

SUNSHINERAY You are making some really good points. I can not Monday Morning Quarterback what "didn't happen" after 3:30 pm on Feb. 13th. But, having read some of the criteria for an Amber Alert, their ages (only 8th graders), unrelated adolescents (so not like they ran away from home to an absent parent), the fact they were not dressed for the incredibly cold temperature of that night, or one of the girls might have had a medical condition (thinking anaphylactic shock to a bee sting, siezures or antibiotic etc.), and they disappeared in a public park venue. Just looking at all the things they were part of in the community...these were not runaways who decided to go to a Rave Party! Ya' know, even as I type this, I realize why so many members of the community stayed to help look for the girls. Their noble efforts make my eyes tear and heart burdened. I am thinking there were lots of heroes that day and night....all praying for a positive outcome. I think people in this community are used to taking care of themselves. Even their fire department is manned by volunteers. Did you know they keep a picture of a lighted candle for Abby & Libby on their FB Homepage?
Since no one knew the make of model of the vehicle, I don't think road blocks would have worked. And now that LE believes he
is local, what road block would stop him from running to his home, 1 mile away?
BTW, to anyone reading...if your loved one doesn't show up at the appointed time...get on the phone ASAP and make LE aware of any medical condition that requires medication and could put your loved one in additional danger.

I was by no means wanting it to sound like I was bad mouthing LE, FD, I just really think after reading that Amber Alert criteria, they should have issued it. Whether it would have made a difference in possible info coming in to catch a killer, only God knows.

 

[IQuestion]

So many thoughts have been shared here involving the motive, modus and opportunity. I am of two thoughts, each separated based on the means, motive and opportunity.

The first is he was a hunter (possibly a repeat offender) waiting for a situation to present itself, and either way, moved on before or after the dust settled. Means= he corralled them, motive = sexual/control/murder, and opportunity = they crossed his path.

The second is he had information the girls would be there, whatever way, and planned a sabotage. Means= he tricked one or both, or someone known to them, or had prior understanding of their plans, motive= revenge, sexual/control/murder, and opportunity=he was aware the girls would be there.

JABARN, snipping from your post, "The second is he had information the girls would be there, whatever way, and planned a sabotage. Means= he tricked one or both, or someone known to them, or had prior understanding of their plans.."
I remember some adults looking for two teens on a TV show and one adult asked, "Where do you think they are?" and the other replied after looking on her phone, "They are in the cafeteria....they just posted a picture of their pizza on SC." Wow, is that possible? If Libby had just posted a picture of them on the bridge to SC, can anyone who has their phone number or tied into their account see they were on the bridge? And if the perp was close by, or heading home....see the picture on the bridge and could be there in say, uhm, 20 minutes? (I would love to hear from parents who have kids who SC everything from their toothpaste to their household pets.)

 

[Boxer]

It really should have been called, IMO. No matter what LE was getting from family about where they could possibly be, just the phone going straight to voicemail after the person the girls knew was picking them up called them. AJMO

As far as I know they don't issue them unless a car was involved.

 

[Cutiekitty]

It really should have been called, IMO. No matter what LE was getting from family about where they could possibly be, just the phone going straight to voicemail after the person the girls knew was picking them up called them. AJMO

The situation didn’t meet the requirements for an amber alert. It met the first criteria on the list posted by @tresir, but not the second or third. The fourth didn’t occur because it wasn’t a clear abduction and there was no description of the abductor or a vehicle.

BBM - Did you read or see this somewhere? I was asking about this the other day and couldn’t find this info anywhere. There was some discussion about hearing the phone ring and I was thinking if it didn’t ring and went straight to voice mail it could’ve been off or it ran out of juice.

 

[gregjrichards]

Watching a ID true crime show with my wife, and a man on it said something that I had heard before years ago (while researching Zodiac) but never applied it to this case...

That often times the killer attends the funeral(s) of his victims.

Any chance LE took photographs of the funeral attendes or those attending the balloon release, etc?

Without a doubt law enforcement would have been looking out for suspicious behaviour I am sure plain clothed LE and FBI would have been watching the crowds.

Thank you to all of you for continuing to keep the conversation going and for not giving up on justice for Abigail, Liberty and their families.