Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #109

[bradfordsleuth]

What do you think the perp's alibi could have been for NOT attending the search party, assuming he was local as stated by LE. As witnessed by others, many came out to search all through the night from the area and outside the area even.

I don't think he actually lives in Delphi. He may have been there earlier that day specifically for a purpose (like a meeting, for example.)

Had he attended the search, I believe he would have drawn unnecessary attention with his presence by returning back to Delphi that day.

JMO

 

[mtnlites]

What do you think the perp's alibi could have been for NOT attending the search party, assuming he was local as stated by LE. As witnessed by others, many came out to search all through the night from the area and outside the area even.

He probably didn't need to "alibi" that since even with a lot of people out there looking it wasn't like the whole town showed up. Tired, had to be somewhere early the next morning, kept the computer and TV off all night and didn't hear about it in time (not everyone has social media accounts), previous commitments, he didn't know the families so had no vested interest, a loner who didn't have anyone to make the inquiry...

Unless he was close to the family he probably never even had to answer that question. Even with a sizable turnout not everyone participates in a search. There are around 3,000 people in Delphi. If 10% of the pop turned out to search, and that would statistically be a good percentage, it would still mean that 2500 did not. The largest search party for Savannah Spurlock still only had around 200 people, and between Lancaster and Ruchmind alone there are more than 36,000 people. In my experience as someone whose spouse works with SAR, it's more common to ask why someone DID show up to search than why they did not.

 

[insearchoflight]

Is there a link somewhere that says that Libby's shoe wasn't on her foot?

“Then, on February 14, searchers reportedly found a single shoe. Within minutes, they made another grim discovery — they reportedly found the girls' remains, less than a mile from where they had started their hike just 24 hours earlier.”

Who KIlled Abby Williams & Liberty German? | Still a Mystery on Investigation Discovery | Investigation Discovery

If you watch the ID special “Still a Mystery”, it has more details on the shoe.

 

[tresir2012]

He probably didn't need to "alibi" that since even with a lot of people out there looking it wasn't like the whole town showed up. Tired, had to be somewhere early the next morning, kept the computer and TV off all night and didn't hear about it in time (not everyone has social media accounts), previous commitments, he didn't know the families so had no vested interest, a loner who didn't have anyone to make the inquiry...

Unless he was close to the family he probably never even had to answer that question. Even with a sizable turnout not everyone participates in a search. There are around 3,000 people in Delphi. If 10% of the pop turned out to search, and that would statistically be a good percentage, it would still mean that 2500 did not. The largest search party for Savannah Spurlock still only had around 200 people, and between Lancaster and Ruchmind alone there are more than 36,000 people. In my experience as someone whose spouse works with SAR, it's more common to ask why someone DID show up to search than why they did not.

Its been stated dozens, and also hundreds, so it's good to get a reasonable estimate of 300. Thanks for that.

 

[IQuestion]

Is there a link somewhere that says that Libby's shoe wasn't on her foot?

CCJD Hopefully by the time I post the answer, 17 other sleuths haven't already supplied links. I found a podcast from Joe Melillo and he is interviewing Kelsi....the podcast is 35:50 minutes long, beginning at 18:40 Kelsi explains:
"Well first off, I was standing on the trail right under the bridge, looking out into the woods. And, somebody yelled up they had found a shoe. And when they found the shoe, they asked what type of shoes the girls were wearing................."
Mixes — Infamous Indy

 

[Boxer]

This has always made me wonder. If there was a couple under the bridge at that time, they could have easily seen/heard something. It would be nice to know if LE identified the couple and interviewed them.

Agree. Never have heard any more about it.
we need some MSM on CE and FSG to speculate any more on any bridge hiker witness information.

 

[CCJD]

“Then, on February 14, searchers reportedly found a single shoe. Within minutes, they made another grim discovery — they reportedly found the girls' remains, less than a mile from where they had started their hike just 24 hours earlier.”

Who KIlled Abby Williams & Liberty German? | Still a Mystery on Investigation Discovery | Investigation Discovery

If you watch the ID special “Still a Mystery”, it has more details on the shoe.

Thanks. Of course, I'm stuck on the word "reportedly", i.e. second hand info. No matter, really. We'll all find out all the details when the murders are finally solved.

 

[rainwaterstill]

To make the university itself or the program more attractive? Super Saturday has been around for over 20 years that I know of.

There's always a lot going on in that area.

Not a Super Saturday event, but on the evening of Feb. 14, 2017 the Purdue men's basketball team was playing Rutgers. It was a home game for Purdue in Mackey. Purdue won. Attendance was just over 14,500. It would be fair to say that a minimum of 10,000 were most likely cheering for Purdue. People drive for several hours to attend games.

On February 9, 2017 , the team was playing its arch-rival Indiana, in Bloomington. Both teams were playing for the Crimson-Gold Cup, which increases the rivalry even more. Purdue won, by 5 points.

2016–17 Purdue Boilermakers men's basketball team - Wikipedia

 

[Nerissa]

I keep coming back to the eerie fact - gosh, Libby or Abby - the phonetic quality makes me forget the details even though visually I know who each is!! So sorry...But they were taking a forensic crime class....correct?

I also come back to an idea that the perp stalked this area, knowing it was a good place for his planned crime...

Put the two together: Well....I'm putting this out there though I know it's ridiculous - but at this point: well, what else we got? & I do love ideas outside the box, even when not true, they can stir things up - get the brain out of 'logic' mode. Because these crimes, even if planned, are not 'logic' to me, no matter what, it's always 'passion' - and it's hard to map that

OK - so what if this was a planned game - ie, someone from her class, or knew about it, or interested - was like: let's stage a crime.....so they ARE waiting & they DO go along.....but it turns out it's for real...

Yeah, I know. Perp should have been caught - but what if part of the game was to be super secret, for the perp to try to do all he could to not be found out...ie, maybe the digital footprint would be meager....

Yep, sounds like an interesting plot, or twist, to a crime novel!!

Still something isn't adding up...now, as per Jayme Closs case: who would have guessed that!! Utterly random & not well planned....yet it succeeded.....

erm: editing to add: Closs case, perp actually DID NOT SUCCEED, because, Jayme, the kick-*advertiser censored** heroine she is, escaped...
JMO

 

[CCJD]

CCJD Hopefully by the time I post the answer, 17 other sleuths haven't already supplied links. I found a podcast from Joe Melillo and he is interviewing Kelsi....the podcast is 35:50 minutes long, beginning at 18:40 Kelsi explains:
"Well first off, I was standing on the trail right under the bridge, looking out into the woods. And, somebody yelled up they had found a shoe. And when they found the shoe, they asked what type of shoes the girls were wearing................."
Mixes — Infamous Indy

Thanks. I listened a few times. Gotta say, everything I've read, remembered or listened to hasn't 100% convinced me the shoe was separate from the girls' bodies. But, hey, that's just me and it's not a big deal. But again, thanks.

 

[mtnlites]

In as much as they could, given their location. I think they did run, right thru the creek , and resulting in Libby's shoe coming off

This had honestly never crossed my mind until someone mentioned it here and now it's my theory, too. I don't think BG marched them through the creek. I think either they ran, perhaps not realizing it would be as cold and deep (knee level or higher in some parts) as it was or the crossed back over the bridge and was attacked there and never went through the water at all.

From another discussion about this crime, I realized that a lot of things that people were accepting as factual were theories that had come from various reenactments and YouTube videos. A lot of those people are really good, but we need to take care in how we process info from those videos IMO. Almost all of them don't really know any more than we do-some are just better at offering the package.

Edited because I clearly shouldn't try to WS on my tablet with my fat fingers.

 

[insearchoflight]

Thanks. I listened a few times. Gotta say, everything I've read, remembered or listened to hasn't 100% convinced me the shoe was separate from the girls' bodies. But, hey, that's just me and it's not a big deal. But again, thanks.

Kelsi has said in interviews that the searchers first found a shoe and yelled out to her asking her what color were Abby’s shoes, and kelsi yelled back the color then they found the girls nearby the shoe. I choose to believe this as fact, but it’s up to you what you choose to believe.

In the “Still A Mystery” episode on ID they reenact part of this and show the shoe sitting there. I don’t think this is made up.

 

[Krwiley60]

...." it's got a whole new, it's got a whole twist to it that, even I, as a 30 year veteran, have never seen.

For a 30 year veteran of law enforcement to say they'd never seen something, even in a more rural county, I'm wondering as to what that could be, that "twist". The only thing that comes to mind is the audio.

I think it was the manner of death or what was used to cause their deaths.

 

[tresir2012]

Kelsi has said in interviews that the searchers first found a shoe and yelled out to her asking her what color were Abby’s shoes, and kelsi yelled back the color then they found the girls nearby the shoe. I choose to believe this as fact, but it’s up to you what you choose to believe.

In the “Still A Mystery” episode on ID they reenact part of this and show the shoe sitting there. I don’t think this is made up.

Was the shoe shown a black Nike? That's what Libby was wearing.

 

[Jax49]

Was the shoe shown a black Nike? That's what Libby was wearing.

We discussed this earlier and it seems to be a stock photo. One of our members found it used as such. The shoe is shown at about the 9 minute mark in the video. It is covered in sand and out of focus. I also noticed much of the video focuses on a different bridge.

Down the Hill | Still A Mystery

 

[tresir2012]

We discussed this earlier and it seems to be a stock photo. One of our members found it used as such. The shoe is shown at about the 9 minute mark in the video. It is covered in sand and out of focus. I also noticed much of the video focuses on a different bridge.

Down the Hill | Still A Mystery

Ok I remember now, so it isn't Libby's shoe at all then. It's misleading viewers if it isn't correct. I can't find the clothes and shoe descriptions on the ISP or FBI site now anyway.

 

[Jamie737]

I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that there are a couple of things that point to BG being very young. Perhaps even high school age:

1. His DNA and fingerprints don’t appear to be in an LE database
2. Some angles of stills from the videoclip look very young indeed
3. It fits with a SM arranged meeting: - false identity perhaps, savvy technologically
4. Hiding very much in plain sight, because everyone is focused on an older age group
5. Possibly a first offence.

What do others think?

 

[Cutiekitty]

I am coming to the reluctant conclusion that there are a couple of things that point to BG being very young. Perhaps even high school age:

1. His DNA and fingerprints don’t appear to be in an LE database
2. Some angles of stills from the videoclip look very young indeed
3. It fits with a SM arranged meeting: - false identity perhaps, savvy technologically
4. Hiding very much in plain sight, because everyone is focused on an older age group
5. Possibly a first offence.

What do others think?

You can add - Would also be out of school and the park was popular with high school aged kids.

Im not totally convinced that the meeting was prearranged, but I do think that SM played a role.

 

[Jamie737]

You can add - Would also be out of school and the park was popular with high school aged kids.

Im not totally convinced that the meeting was prearranged, but I do think that SM played a role.

And who may subsequently have moved away to college and comes to visit family.

 

[Torch Carrier]

Yes, I believe BG came to visit family for Easter, LE knew he would, and knew that Easter is a big event for this fam, so they announced the PC PRE-Easter to stir emotions and had many religious references AT the PC to stir things further, hoping to force someone to come forth with info or to have a a sudden (reluctant?) realization and feel compelled to share it with LE.