GUILTY NY - Phoenix & Luna Rodriguez, 1, twins, die in hot car, Bronx, 26 July 2019 *No jail*

[mickey2942]

Absolutely. Unless they feel a Jail cell is a better place to grieve and help their wife and kids grieve.

Kill children, go directly to jail. Do not pass "Go", do not collect $200.

Prison time. If he feels remorse, he can do penance in prison.

 

[Safeguard]

Kill children, go directly to jail. Do not pass "Go", do not collect $200.

Prison time. If he feels remorse, he can do penance in prison.

He didn't kill his children anymore than any other distracted, unfortunately sleep deprived, inattentive parent who "gets away with" an accident...

 

[Safeguard]

People. There is something wrong when we want vengeance, but we call it: "Justice".

 

[Safeguard]

You said above "he killed his children"

He said that. Because he made a fatal mistake. ( for which he blames himself, because who else is to blame right?!). Most of us have made mistakes that COULD have been fatal, but his was. Websleuths is at its worst when failing to acknowledge no criminal intent, but human frailty. IMFO! ( God!I am so tired of having to add IMO! Why can't ADULTS just acknowledge we are all speaking of our own opinions!)

 

[blue22]

He said that. Because he made a fatal mistake. Most of us have made mistakes that COULD have been fatal, but his was. Websleuths is at its worst when failing to acknowledge no criminal intent, but human frailty. IMFO! ( God!I am so tired of having to add IMO!)

I don't think there is criminal intent. I never said that and LE has never said that. Many, many crimes happen with no intent. I have said that he was neglectful. Human frailty (IMO) does not assuage the neglect that happened. That is my opinion. We are not going to agree on this and that's totally fine.

 

[Safeguard]

I don't think there is criminal intent. I never said that and LE has never said that. Many, many crimes happen with no intent. I have said that he was neglectful. Human frailty (IMO) does not assuage the neglect that happened. That is my opinion. We are not going to agree on this and that's totally fine.

Yes. That is fine. But one more thing...If human frailty is a crime than we are all big trouble.

 

[blue22]

Yes. That is fine. But one more thing...If human frailty is a crime than we are all big trouble.

Never said it was a crime. But neglect is. Which is what I feel happened here. You don't feel that. Great, awesome. We disagree and the world goes round.

By the way...my life is far from perfect. I am far from perfect. I have said multiple times on this thread that I would expect to be judged the same way legally, should any of my children die of my neglect. I'm not above being morally or legally judged. If my child dies in my car, the law and society has EVERY right to judge me accordingly.

I find zero satisfaction in the death of babies or the collateral damage of that. I do believe that the justice system can't make excuses for criminal behavior, even criminal behavior without intent. If a child is left anywhere else and dies, no one would be arguing about charges. The car has become a magical little place that holds no accountability and puts people above legal accountability. I don't believe in THAT.

 

[TristanP]

So, once again, what's he trying to sell? The man can barely stand up right in the court room pics... What do we know about this man, that his wife, mother, friends, co-workers, Teenage children, fellow soldiers...do not? And by all accounts, this was an honorable man.

There is a picture of him sleeping, with his two newborn twins on his chest... He's military... A SW who works with homeless vets. He lives to serve. LITERALLY. His family is quite obviously convinced he is a GOOD father, who made a mistake. A fatal mistake. This is something he will not EVER come to peace with within himself. His core values are just SO incongruent with these deaths it's impossible for him to have a an avenue for self-forgiveness.

He already has a life sentence that he will impose on himself. For the sake of his living children, family and friends, I hope he can find the wherewith-all to just get on with things. That is the best I feel he can hope for, he's not coming back from this the same man, just as many of the the vet's he serves do not come back whole, from their personal hell.

Saving this quote so I can quote it again later, when more facts are known about this situation.

 

[Safeguard]

He Left His Twins in a Hot Car and They Died. Accident or Crime?
s/b/bm

"For prosecutors, the critical questions are whether evidence exists that the parent meant to harm their children or knew they were placing their children in danger, legal experts said. There has to be some degree of intent to make conduct criminal.

“There always has to be some mens rea, some knowledge, intent, awareness,” said James Cohen, a professor at Fordham University School of Law in the Bronx, using the Latin legal term.

In Ohio, the Warren County prosecutor, David Fornshell, said he decided not to charge a woman in 2017 who had left her 15-month old baby inside her car with fatal results. He was ultimately convinced it was an accident in part because a security video showed how horrified the mother was when she learned she had not dropped her baby off at day care as she had thought.

“There’s nothing as a prosecutor that you are ever going to be able to do to that parent that is going to come close to what that parent is going to have to live with for the rest of their life,” Mr. Fornshell said in an interview.

In Oneida County in upstate New York, the district attorney, Scott McNamara, said he spent two months investigating whether there was any hint of malfeasance that could explain why Officer Mark Fanfarillo would leave his infant, Michael, in a hot car after dropping his older brother off at a different day care. He said could not find any.

“Just because you do something wrong doesn’t make it a crime,” Mr. McNamara said, explaining why he brought no charges. “After everything was done, and everyone was interviewed, we came to the conclusion that he just forgot, and I don’t think the law punishes forgetting.”

ETA: So, I guess that we can post our outrage on some website, and insist on prison for parents... pretend that we, as citizens have no responsibility for the car seat legislation that has led directly to these deaths, OR we could actually, ya know, DO something to foster awareness and prevention while having a modicum of mercy and human decency for those who lost children because congress was not up to date on the workings and fallacy of human memory.

 

[Trident]

I had a lot more empathy for this man before he staged the dog and pony show. All that family tableaux did for me was make me wonder why it was happening, why anyone felt it necessary.

My opinion

 

[epiphany]

I don't know what to think in the case. Whether or not he "forgot" I do hope to see some kind of charge, even if minor. I hope that the DA is actually investigating this and not just waiting for it to go away.

The courthouse performance was very odd, but people are weird. I'm trying not to read into that.

ETA: I can't fathom why they would bring a young child to that circus. Let the kid have some privacy and deal with this trauma. Good lord!

RBBM

The 4 yo is unable to understand the deaths of two of his siblings, why they have still not returned home, etc.

It is likely he is beyond terrified to be away from both his mother and father at this time, and probably under the advice & guidance of a therapist, imo, it was the lesser of two evils that he accompany his parents and family.

To me, the defense attorney did not come across as obnoxious or arrogant, but rather struck just the right chord.

Any seemingly odd behavior outside the courthouse MIGHT be due to meds which MAY have been prescribed by involved mental health physicians. OTOH, it is possible that what was viewed as odd behavior is simply a result of going into shock due to extreme trauma.

 

[Laughing]

Press conference may be an attempt to appease said press, reporters are possibly camped out on this family's block, watching each & every move.

Willing to wait for more info.

Willing to wait while praying peace & support for this family!

 

[blue22]

RBBM

The 4 yo is unable to understand the deaths of two of his siblings, why they have still not returned home, etc.

It is likely he is beyond terrified to be away from both his mother and father at this time, and probably under the advice & guidance of a therapist, imo, it was the lesser of two evils that he accompany his parents and family.

To me, the defense attorney did not come across as obnoxious or arrogant, but rather struck just the right chord.

Any seemingly odd behavior outside the courthouse MIGHT be due to meds which MAY have been prescribed by involved mental health physicians. OTOH, it is possible that what was viewed as odd behavior is simply a result of going into shock due to extreme trauma.

A 4 year old is absolutely aware and impacted by their siblings suddenly being gone. No, they can't process or understand abstract concepts like death. Yes, they are traumatized by sudden loss.

A psychiatrist worth a darn would have said to keep the young child away from the nonsense, with mom, if they have such strong reactions to being away from mom or dad. There is no good psychiatrist that would tell a parent to offer their child up to a media circus like that. None. It was likely either their idea, or the lawyer's idea. (Most likely lawyer.) Children bring sympathy and they are worrying about what the public thinks rather than keeping their kid out of it. It's more important they are shielded from that crap, than it is for the public to see that performance. Whatever the reason or through or process, whoever had the idea, they shouldn't use a child like that.

As I said above, I'm not reading into from a culpability standpoint. People do weird things and behavior (to me) in these situations, isn't generally evidence of anything. It's just terrible decision making regarding the small child.

 

[Inthedetails]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1256950831152882

Defense Atty outside courthouse w/ father & family:

At this time, there has been no GJ action.

Will be back August 27 to again see if GJ convened to indict Mr R

I'm just watching this now for the first time. I couldn't finish it because it looks like sheer torture for his wife. She is a strong person and I admire that she is doing what they think needs to be done for her husband's sake, but man, that is a big burden to stand there during the long press conference. She's stronger than I am - I had to turn it off.

FWIW, I watched most of this and didn't think it was a dog and pony show. Sure, it was for appearances, but I think it was done to keep the press away from the family. Photographers been camped outside this family's home. Perhaps now they will back off until the next court date later in the month. And if the public is outraged, now they are assured that the process is going through all the steps and the man will be in court again. No need to shout for justice as the justice system is indeed turning it's wheels. The lawyer didn't seem overly showy to me (being a bit showy is part of the job). Frankly, I thought this was done well.

At this point, I'm leaning toward accident and I sincerely hope that is the case.

My lingering questions are -
- Did the daycare center contact either parent during the day?
- Did he park in a different spot than normal?
- What does he normally do for lunch and did he follow that routine that day?
- Was there something especially stressful going on at work that he had to deal with that day?

jmo


jmo

 

[epiphany]

A 4 year old is absolutely aware and impacted by their siblings suddenly being gone. No, they can't process or understand abstract concepts like death. Yes, they are traumatized by sudden loss.

A psychiatrist worth a darn would have said to keep the young child away from the nonsense, with mom, if they have such strong reactions to being away from mom or dad. There is no good psychiatrist that would tell a parent to offer their child up to a media circus like that. None. It was likely either their idea, or the lawyer's idea. (Most likely lawyer.) Children bring sympathy and they are worrying about what the public thinks rather than keeping their kid out of it. It's more important they are shielded from that crap, than it is for the public to see that performance. Whatever the reason or through or process, whoever had the idea, they shouldn't use a child like that.

As I said above, I'm not reading into from a culpability standpoint. People do weird things and behavior (to me) in these situations, isn't generally evidence of anything. It's just terrible decision making regarding the small child.

RBBM

I hear you, Blue, but it seems to me that no way in hell would this mother/wife Not be beside her husband yesterday in the courtroom!

While I agree the attorney prob suggested the entire family be present (if possible), each family operates in a manner unique to them and their circumstances.

I don't view what I saw yesterday as a circus - not at all! I see it as a defense attorney working for a very, very closely knit family (and community) doing what they must do in order to support and defend the father who they believe should not serve time for the deaths of his twins (provided the toxicology report shows no ingestion of a toxic substance). My guess is a therapist approved the decision for the young one to attend.

 

[Inthedetails]

RBBM

I hear you, Blue, but it seems to me that no way in hell would this mother/wife Not be beside her husband yesterday in the courtroom!

While I agree the attorney prob suggested the entire family be present (if possible), each family operates in a manner unique to them and their circumstances.

I don't view what I saw yesterday as a circus - not at all! I see it as a defense attorney working for a very, very closely knit family (and community) doing what they must do in order to support and defend the father who they believe should not serve time for the deaths of his twins (provided the toxicology report shows no ingestion of a toxic substance). My guess is a therapist approved the decision for the young one to attend.

I agree. This is a tight-knit family in a tight-knit community. You wouldn't have one member of a community standing alone in any situation, whether it is a happy circumstance or a tragic one. They are together, from babies to grandmas. I think the lawyer understands that. To ask the father to stand there alone, or even with just his wife, simply wouldn't happen, imo, whether anyone from outside the community thinks it is appropriate to have the child there or not.
jmo

 

[blue22]

I'm just watching this now for the first time. I couldn't finish it because it looks like sheer torture for his wife. She is a strong person and I admire that she is doing what they think needs to be done for her husband's sake, but man, that is a big burden to stand there during the long press conference. She's stronger than I am - I had to turn it off.

FWIW, I watched most of this and didn't think it was a dog and pony show. Sure, it was for appearances, but I think it was done to keep the press away from the family. Photographers been camped outside this family's home. Perhaps now they will back off until the next court date later in the month. And if the public is outraged, now they are assured that the process is going through all the steps and the man will be in court again. No need to shout for justice as the justice system is indeed turning it's wheels. The lawyer didn't seem overly showy to me (being a bit showy is part of the job). Frankly, I thought this was done well.

At this point, I'm leaning toward accident and I sincerely hope that is the case.

My lingering questions are -
- Did the daycare center contact either parent during the day?
- Did he park in a different spot than normal?
- What does he normally do for lunch and did he follow that routine that day?
- Was there something especially stressful going on at work that he had to deal with that day?

jmo


jmo

I am relieved they didn't make quick decision. Whatever the outcome will be, the public can know LE and the DA has done their due diligence. If they have lingering questions or doubts, it was the right choice to wait. I have these questions, well. In addition to them:

-Did he interact with the twins (have to take them out, speak to them, etc.) when he dropped the other children off?
-Were they awake or asleep when he proceeded after dropping the child off?
-Is there video footage of the parking lot?
-Did the car have an overwhelming smell?
-Does he normally visit the car during the day for any reason. If so, why didn't he today. (If not, than that it doesn't play any part.)
-Was his behavior otherwise normal that day?

I ask none of these questions with an assumption of intent. (I don't think there was any criminal intent here.) But they paint a bigger picture of the day, that is necessary.

 

[Inthedetails]

I'm just watching this now for the first time. I couldn't finish it because it looks like sheer torture for his wife. She is a strong person and I admire that she is doing what they think needs to be done for her husband's sake, but man, that is a big burden to stand there during the long press conference. She's stronger than I am - I had to turn it off.

FWIW, I watched most of this and didn't think it was a dog and pony show. Sure, it was for appearances, but I think it was done to keep the press away from the family. Photographers been camped outside this family's home. Perhaps now they will back off until the next court date later in the month. And if the public is outraged, now they are assured that the process is going through all the steps and the man will be in court again. No need to shout for justice as the justice system is indeed turning it's wheels. The lawyer didn't seem overly showy to me (being a bit showy is part of the job). Frankly, I thought this was done well.

At this point, I'm leaning toward accident and I sincerely hope that is the case.

My lingering questions are -
- Did the daycare center contact either parent during the day?
- Did he park in a different spot than normal?
- What does he normally do for lunch and did he follow that routine that day?
- Was there something especially stressful going on at work that he had to deal with that day?

jmo


jmo

Good question about the cameras. The hospital is a VA hospital and I bet there are indeed cameras in the parking lot. There are likely cameras at the entrance, too, so can see his demeanor, etc. when he arrived and departed work.

jmo

 

[Gardenista]

Good question about the cameras. The hospital is a VA hospital and I bet there are indeed cameras in the parking lot. There are likely cameras at the entrance, too, so can see his demeanor, etc. when he arrived and departed work.

jmo

Do you know where the employee parking is at the hospital?

 

[Gardenista]

I hadn't seen this before

Several witnesses reported that the father had been spotted minutes earlier outside of the Caridad Restaurant on West Kingsbridge Road, across the street from the V.A. Hospital.

Father Charged With Homicide After 1-Year-Old Twins Die In Hot Car